Cole

I'm curious if the end points move under power more than the aftermarket is considering?

Orantes

Anything would have to be better than the factory shaft. Stupid thing that it is.....

Cole

How so?

The original ones seem to last on average 60-100k miles. Most of those are "early revision" part numbers. So the replacement parts in theory should last longer than the first set. Which is longer than most people will own and drive these cars.

Every driveshaft on earth needs serviced at some point. Some last longer than others.

Its a fairly easy diy and sub $400 to fix. Not bad considering the value the Cayenne offers on the used market.

Fwiw, mine didn't go until about 105k on my CTT. So if the updated replacement lasts to 210k I'll be plenty happy with it.

wrinkledpants

Exactly. When you comb through the TSB database, it's actually pretty amazing the things that are brought up by customers, and what porsche comes out with as a fix. If simply making a 1-piece DS was the cure, I'm quite certain they would do it. But, $400 bucks for what will basically be 10 years of driving for me comes out to $40/year cost for the driveshaft. It's not like we're talking about oxygen sensors needing a motor pull, like the V10. You'll do two brake jobs that cost way more than a drive shaft in ten years. The C5 RS6 needs a tranny rebuild every 100K miles. That would be something to complain about.

pcst

Remember, the big corporation has 2 sides under the same roof, the engineering side and business side.

The engineering decisions and recommendations always don't come through as it doesn't meet the business cases.

Have we already forgotten about the plastic coolant pipes? I bet ya Porsche would have been in much better shape if they had listened to the engineers when selecting the material used to manufacture those coolant pipes from get go.

wrinkledpants

Except, they produced replacement parts for that plastic pipes. They haven't produced a 1 piece drive shaft, but have updated the support bearing. I really don't see how a 1-piece DS would actually be better. That center support bearing soaks up a lot of vibration and torque that would otherwise be transmitted to the diff. It's not a faulty design.

I have no problems with a factory making a few bad decisions, and then fixing them later on. A CTT with updated pipes and all recommended maintenance done on-time is a pretty reliable ride, even by Honda standards. $400 is a drop in the bucket when you figure how long it lasts. Control arms have about the same life expectancy, and yet nobody bats an eye when those fail.

Cole

So, you're saying that the engineers may have opted for a 1 piece shaft but the business decision was to produce 2x as many shafts connected together with couplers, bearings, support structure,etc Thus increasing the production labor, tool wear, parts needed, time involved, etc.......um yeah


In this case it would seem the exact opposite. The engineers convinced the business side of the house that it was necessary to take on the added expense of a two piece shaft. Probably because it reduces risk of causing a more expensive part from failing. (Which is both a good engineering and business decision)

wrinkledpants

Exactly. Look under any AWD Audi and you'll see a 2-piece drive shaft. My B5 S4 failed at about 150K miles and had almost the exact same design.

The only ****ty part about all this is there isn't a good way to split the DS and just replace the center support bearing. If they could have somehow designed the bearing so that you could service or replace it while the DS stays in the car, that would have been better. But, I'm fine with replacing it every 100K miles.

CaptJim

My 1992 Mercedes 300CE SportLine has a two piece shaft. Had to replace the Bearing and rubber boot at 200,000. The boot failed first and caused much noise under the car.

69gaugeman

As I mentioned before the coolant pipes had been re-engineered. The drive shaft was not.

I AM aware of both sides. Being in engineering in the automotive industry I see the economic and engineering side of things every day.

This 'upgrade' is unnecessary and expensive. Solving a problem that isn't there. And possibly creating new ones that didn't exist before.

But it is your choice. My choice is to save $400 ($1000 if you think carbon fibre is the correct answer) and use the stock replacement parts and be done with it.

Orantes

I will tell how so...the fact that I have only done 140,000km and now I am on my third shaft is how so! That's enough to **** me off just a little, and I really like my Cayenne!

hahnmgh63

It is a poor design, and they have revised the part "part number" but it seems like the newer ones are failing about the same mileage as the original ones. I replaced mine last year @65K (Turbo S so maybe it's harder on the shaft) with an OEM (Sonnen Porsche) one but it looked pretty much identical to the one I pulled out.

69gaugeman

I would love to see the parts that were removed and the ones that replaced it. 3 driveshafts in that few miles may indicate another problem. What was changed? The whole shaft with new? With rebuilt? with just a center bearing? DIY / Dealer / Independant? Many factors but certainly more frequent than MOST.

I guess it depends on what you call a poor design. What failed on yours? The fact that the Turbo S has what? 550+hp? How do you drive it? Like you stole it?

There are many factors in a failure. My treg has 190,000km with no signs of failure yet. But I am pretty tame in my driving. But I do pull trailers frequently and one of them weighs all of 7700lbs. My Cayenne turbo just had it replaced at 200,000km but it wasn't bad, part of the deal I made when I purchased it.

For those who say they replaced it two or three times, who did the work, did they replace just one part, did they even replace it? Lots of questions I would have.

In addition there is NO testing to determine if this shaft is better. Just words on a page saying so. The evidence from the factory indicates that the two piece shaft is the right decision. Or they would have changed it. The factory gets the benefits of seeing every single warranty failure and can compare it to the total sales. They also can see drive shaft sales as compared to total sales.

Trust me, while they like part sales, they make more money selling complete cars. Their reputation is some thing they AGGRESSIVELY protect. Don't think for a minute they wouldn't change it if it had a real influence on their reputation.

wrinkledpants

Agreed. 3 times in that many miles isn't normal. The majority of people driving cayennes and touaregs are getting about 80-100K miles out of them. On cars that are lighter weight (most Audi's), they get around 150K miles before they go.

Cole

FWIW, I have a 112K mile CTT that is chipped/BPVs, etc. Run either 22s or my 285/65/18 BFGs. I tow a car hauler with it, autocross it, hammer it daily, etc. (that is actually me in my avatar to give you an idea;-)

It's only had one driveshaft replacement.