speed21

Ok guys. Finally got to drive the new v8ds beast. Demo just arrived and i was first man in the seat. I was always apprehensive about turning my back on the GTS for a new diesel order as it was such a great car but after driving this thing I gotta say just as well i did. I would have been kicking myself otherwise. As a performer the V8D eats the GTS for breakfast. I mean totally. This thing hauls with the urge of a CTT. The V8 petrol can no way can keep with this thing...

Joseph O'Reilly

you seem rather convinced! congrats. when are you getting your DS? Not soon enough, I take it?

speed21

Performance wise it was convincingly better than the GTS. It generally felt more resolved in the way it handled as well.....different to a regular S that i drove with 21's, it is a bit firmer in normal mode and sharper in sports as well, and better than the GTS which had what i felt was an unnecessarily jittery ride. The V8ds also had 21" wheels with yokohama tyres which i felt had more road noise unfortunately. Hopefully i get Michelins on mine.

Ours is due mid June but it was good to finally get a proper handle on the car. I was of the mindset that if the V8ds didn't have anything notably better about it then i would have re considered the GTS again rather than wait till June. The way it performs so strongly though my feeling is the V8 petrol is finished now especially when you look at the better fuel consumption it has as well. This may also apply to the CTT with certain buyers as it felt like it has much the same level of acceleration. Dropping the hammer from the get go it just takes a split second before the thing just launches itself out of the blocks and accelerates unrelenting with no after lag or dead spots through the gears. It was very impressive but what i liked most was the way you could punt the car through traffic with such effortless ease. You just can't do that with the atmo 8 as it needs the to build it's revs. With the v8ds it's all go. There was no lag like what you get with the v6tdi such as when you lift on and off the throttle quickly It was very linear and progressive in the power delivery and no lag. On the freeway if the car is cruising at 100 under light power and then you stand on it, it instantly accelerates hard and it doesn't let up unless you ease back off the throttle. You could get yourself into trouble with the law pretty easy in this thing.

endless_corners

Diesels in a high state of tune offer awesome in gear acceleration. My highly modded tdi jetta was like that. It would just eat highways. Need to pass someone, no kickdown, just press down and feel that wall of torque.

997CS4

Speed21, thanks for the feedback on your test drive. This should bode well for the resale value of the Dsl8 if everybody loves it like you do. I'm expecting mine late May, I choose the 20 inch because of the tire you mentioned.

scott40

This may be old news but my dealer told me today that the US is not getting the V8 diesel...

endless_corners

Gas is cheap and they dont want to mess with the turbo gasser cash cow -- I wager.

speed21

So what brand do the 20" come with? Dealer says it's the luck of the draw with tyre brands unfortunately. I felt these Yoki's made more road noise than what i recall the other cayennes i'd driven.

They said US wouldn't get the TDI 6 either. I read the US will get the V8D next year. Maybe they are hoping the US can soak up all the remaining v8 petrol engines first. The V8 in the GTS felt a really nice motor but the diesel felt significantly faster everywhere.

endless_corners

Turbo diesels always feel faster than they actually are. All that torque throws off the sensitive instruments in the butt dyno. Still, I'm sure that particular engine is a BEAST.

speed21

Lol....

The engine is a beast alright. The route i went had me measuring speed from the get go to a particular intersection which was only a short distance away on a fairly decent angle uphill and the speed difference placed the GTS nearly 15/18 kph behind. I see the zero to 100 kph and 80 to 120 is listed as the same between these two but it just doesn't feel it. The in gear acceleration of the v8d feels night and day as in the same way the CTT feels against the atmo 8. The engine sounds and feels as as if its revving the same as a petrol too. It feels revvy, flexible and linear.

The turbo torque of this v8 diesel and the turbo petrol shifts the weight of this cayenne in a way the atmo simply can't compete. Don't get me wrong the GTS is hardly a slug but in comparison the turbo diesel feels substantially quicker everywhere. And the speedo doesn't lie. I'd like to PBOX this pair because from how they both drive it looks like Porsche has protected the GTS's cred by listing the accel times identical. I'm sure there is a real difference and its not in their interest to advertise it.

Joseph O'Reilly

Normally I would agree that diesels feel faster than they are, but the CDS somehow understated actual speed on my test drive. Also I noticed quite a bit of lag when I punched the throttle. Someone suggested these impressions both may have been due to not engaging the "Sport" mode button. Possible, as the autobox was already in 7th gear at 50mph, but I didn't expect gearing would matter THAT much given the massive torque on tap at 2000rpm. Still I liked it a lot- smooth, nice sound, very powerful, on at highway speeds where the v6 diesel (which was also plenty fast around town and up to 70mph or so) just couldn't deliver much acceleration. I guess it is as they say: "There's no replacement for displacement".

speed21

Agree with this. There is no replacement for displacement especially when both are turbo'd. The extra 2 cylinders and 1.2 litres certainly produces an undeniable difference. Im assuming the lag you speak of was when dropping the hammer from a standing start? I found once the beast was moving it had unstoppable acceleration with the linearity of the atmo GTS....but with just a hell of a lot more force behind it and, in a very smooth and civilised fashion. It all made for a compelling drive. Very sophisticated yet very fast at the same time. As i said earlier my money is on the GTS having a real problem up against this thing.

Joseph O'Reilly

Yes that's pretty much what I found. Well put.


I find that really interesting given the effusive praise you doled out for the GTS. Would have guessed it'd be the atmo S that is rendered redundant by the DS where available. You drove both the GTS and the DS, so I can't comment from experience, but reviews of the GTS rave about the sound, extremely sporty handling for an SUV, and for those opting for it, the available dynamic chassis control. Based on that, I thought the GTS makes sense for someone who wants to have their sports car and utility car all in one vehicle, whereas the DS perfectly complements the sports car you already have, because the DS itself probably handles more like an SUV than the GTS. But it seems that you found the DS even stands up to the GTS in terms of overall driving dynamics, which would indeed pressure GTS sales. In any case, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that sales of the atmo S are all but dead outside the USA, and that even the Turbo sales will greatly suffer given the big price difference vs a very minor power difference vis a vis the DS. The DS also gives buyers a relatively low entry price in Europe if they want a bare-bones beast, or the chance to equip it very well for lots of money, but lots less than a Turbo.

speed21

I don't step away from the praise i gave GTS because it really does represent a great package with exception to the ride quality. It looks and sounds the part, engine is way better than the regular 8, but for all of that the suspension always left me questioning whether was it a long term proposition even as a "one" car.

You see, CTT managed to provide better performance again with all the same looks and luxuries yet didn't sacrifice ride comfort. With GTS it felt to me like the car was trying to act that bit too sporty for its own good and in the process reduced the practicality of the car. How many are really going to take GTS anywhere near the limit given its size and weight to actually experience whatever slight benefit it may actually deliver at 10 10ths. No matter which way you look at it, at the and of the day the car is still an SUV that most essentially buy to fill a variety of roles.

The Cayenne 958 is a very good handler even in its most basic model so could one safely say the GTS is a car to enjoy on a long trip with varied road surfaces given its ride qualities? Well my gut feeling after driving it on a few occasions was NO even though i tried hard to convince myself otherwise. GTS had the kind of ride that i felt would ultimately leave you questioning your judgment at one point and it didn't matter what setting you were in either, as they all had issues.

The GTS, like any cayenne is a great effort at trying to be be 911 but at the end of the day it's still a truck and you can't escape that fact. If GTS only had the ride of the CTT or V8DS it would be a much better proposition, although now it has the problem where V8DS eats it on performance and while using a lot less fuel.

Now on to the V8DS. I found it had a few obvious differences from the regular V6TDI and V8S petrol. The ride was a bit firmer and felt taught-er than the regular S in all modes, but in an improved way, whereas with GTS all mode settings were questionable for a car of this type.

The V8DS felt good in all mode settings and each was more resolved than any Cayenne I've driven to date. Each setting had its own clear purpose and worked without having one setting sacrificing something for the benefit of the next setting. The coils and the shocks were obviously matched up better so they worked properly in each setting. In comparison to the V8S and V6TDI the V8DS did have a slightly firmer feel obviously to harness the huge power in the drive train, yet didn't compromise to the ride or handling such as what happened to the GTS.

The Porsche engineers have definitely stepped it up in the suspension dynamics by providing what appeared to be much the same level of sharp handling as GTS but without compromises. This was definitely a plus for a car of this power and practicality. It handled sharper but also rode well.

The car I drove didn't have the PTV plus so I'm expecting that will take it even further still. All it needs now is GTS's face to match the performance....but i guess if Porsche did that they may as well kill the GTS now. But with the V8S it's dead in the shed if the V8DS is available as an alternative.

997CS4

A UK car magazine (all Range Rover lovers) said the following of the CA Diesel S: "The Porsche Traction Management system does a brilliant job of transferring power to the axle that needs it most, providing a surefooted and stable experience. The levels of grip are astonishing and you'll soon find yourself forgetting that you're at the helm of a large SUV. Put it this way. We engaged in a game of cat and mouse with a Carrera 4 and whilst it would be churlish to suggest that it was a match for the 911, it was closer than you'd expect. The great leveller is that torque figure again, which helps the Cayenne stay with the sports car when exiting from bends".

On the tyres; I think in the Netherlands they come with either Pirelli or Michelin. You can't order a specfic brand. My 997.2 came with Pirellis and when they were gone I switched to Michelin, IMO they produce less noise.