Carrera GT

Cayenne S is $55,900, invoice $48,765.
Turbo is $88,900, invoice $77,657.

Call it 13% of MSRP, or 15% on invoice, round figures. Presumably the invoice carries other shared costs or small hold-back etc.

I noticed the VW Cayenne, um, Touareg, is priced at $40,700 for the V8 and $34,900 for the V6. I don't have invoice numbers, but other invoices on VW cars (a very rough check using the $38,700 VW Passat W8 Wagon) is around 9%.

The exact US standard and optional equipment specifications aren't fully published yet, or at least I haven't found them yet. I think the Touareg is about the same spec as the Cayenne S, maybe a bit nicer as VW will be working hard to convince the US buyer to fork over $40K on a brand that usually inhabits the space under $25K. VW options will also be a bit cheaper, most options (like air suspension, xenons, heated seats, four zone climate etc.) are the same. Interestingly, the Touareg uses a started button for the "entry and drive" option. Should be fun.

I'm not sure on all the differences between the Touareg and the Cayenne yet. Basic differences are the engine (much the same unit but 340hp in the Cayenne versus 310 in the Touareg) and the transmission is balanced 50/50 split on the Touareg but it's biased to rear drive on the Cayenne -- this is just software.

Other observations: The Touareg is line-ball on the Infiniti FX prices. So far I can't find just about any vehicle that can match the FX for price-for-gadgets. Maybe the Touareg will up the ante, starting with a $14K advantage over the Cayenne. The V6 Touareg is a preview of a V6 in a Cayenne below the Cayenne S. Rumours of a six speed manual ("stick") shift abound for the Cayenne.

Cheers,

Jim Sorensen

At the Geneva Auto show they had similarly equipped VW and Porsche SUV's. One could hardly tell the difference. In addition, since the VW does not come with as many gee gaws standard, the list was longer. Subsequently, the prices were NOT that much different. (Of course these were Swiss MSRP's)

Carrera GT

What "gee gaws" are on the Porsche but not on the Touareg?

Aside from the 340hp versus 310hp engine, every other technical feature is the same (same frame, chassis, suspension, tranmission) plus the Touareg offers three diff locks (which Porsche will offer eventually) and I haven't heard VW talk about the detachable sway-bars (that Porsche will also offer eventually.)

Has anyone found an authoritative site comparing the two cars?

From early reports on the equipment level, the V8 Touareg will have very nearly exactly the same spec as the Cayenne S. For that matter, exactly what could you unbolt from a Cayenne to lower the spec?

PogueMoHone

Anyone know the difference in the weight of the two vechiles?

And, if there is a weight difference, what is the impact on performance?

Carrera GT

I think the weight difference will be trivial. Looking at all the interior and exterior detail photos (at <a href="http://www.vw.com)" target="_blank">www.vw.com)</a> and the limited Euro reviews, the Touareg is all but identical to the Cayenne. I'm keen to find the differences beyond the engine spec. F'rinstance, the interior trim, seating and switchgear layout is identical. Obviously the Touareg has cosmetic differences and the ignition switch (or button for their "Access" equivalent to "Entry and Drive") is on the right side of the wheel, but otherwise, everything is the same but for cosmetics and plastic moulds. If anything (and forgive me) the design of the Cayenne, especially the dash, is more "taxi bland" than the Touareg which is more "VW family" and looks the same as the latest Passat and the forthcoming Phaeton. VW is really trying to push the price on their brand in the US. Will people buy $40K and $50K VW cars and SUVs when their brand is associated with $20K family economy cars? If Porsche is pushing sh*t uphill to sell the SUV concept to their sports-car brand, then VW is shoveling the same problem bare handed.

Back to the question, the real performance difference will come in the 4.2 litre, 310hp V8 of the Touareg vs. the 4.5 litre, 340hp V8 of the Cayenne. Plus, I'd like to think that Porsche has tweaked the transmission (in terms of gear ratios and final drive ratio as well as shift programs) for acceleration. Even so, the Cayenne S is 0.9 seconds slower than the FX (WHY do I keep mentioning that car?) to 60mph (or was it 62mph ... I forget) but doesn't feel sluggish or under-powered. I think the real "go, no go" decision for me will come if the V8 Touareg has discernible suspension or tranmission differences to make the V8 feel overladen. By comparison the heavier (5400) and less powerful (282hp) Range Rover 2003 model turns a five speed transmission (whereas the Cayenne/Touareg tranny is a six speed, which, for an SUV, along with the sensation six-pot Brembo brakes is just delightful over-engineering) so the Cayenne/Touareg has all the cards and the RR is short a few trumps, but the RR still feels great on-road in terms of acceleration from a standstill or over-taking.

Somehow, the Porshe purist in me (as I was labeled today and rather liked the idea, so maybe if the shoe fits ...) suspects that VW will not build the Touareg to capture the same driving dynamics the Cayenne delivers.
Like the FX (there I go again ...) the Cayenne must be driven to be appreciated. Sure, it's not the handsome car that might get you out of bed early on a weekend just to clean it, but I'm thinking the appeal is that it will get you out of bed early to go DO something with it.

Cheers,

Christian S.

The Touareg and Cayenne have already been reviewed as driving very differently. Last weeks Autocar here in the UK raved about the the Turbo in it's first full test and ousted the RR as it's "Choice". The Touareg was not available for direct comparison - although I passed one on the way back from the Channel Tunnel the other day - but was instead featured after the Cayenne test. The engine of choice over here will probably be the V10 Diesel - huge torque.

I suspect that VW will be happy for the Touareg to take on the RR directly in characteristics and will have little aspiration in trying to follow the Cayenne handling route. I also suspect that for the all the aftermarket suspension specialists and electronic wizards ingenuity - getting a Touareg to handle like a Cayenne will be a harder task than many think......

Carrera GT

The VW turbo-diesel is awesome 710Nm -- yikes!
Sadly, the US market research geniuses say that the luxury and entry-luxury buyer is not ready to pay for their pride and joy with a diesel "donk." Part of this is based on mistaken impressions that the diesel lacks acceleration or makes a lot of noise. Part of the reason behind VW holding back on the diesel relates to price points -- the Cayenne will be their most expensive vehicle in the US until the Phaeton next year. There's some irony in the fact that I'd buy the Touareg without doubt over the Cayenne if it were offered with the turbo-diesel.

Christian S.

Yep, I'm a happy man with an Audi A4 Avant Quattro powered by a 2.5 V6 TurboDiesel. Wonderful torque mated to a fairly good tiptronic makes life very easy.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

NMoore

Autoweek says VW has in fact decided to do the V-10 TDi in the U.S. next year, also in the Phaeton.

BTW the V8 Touareg and the Cayenne are not close in price, there appears to be a $15-20,000 gap pretty well preserved as you option them up. The Cayenne can ultimately spec higher by virtue of the very nice full leather interior. With air suspension, litronic, sunroof, heated rear seats and full leather the Cayenne S pops above $70,000.

The Range Rover certainly won't perform with it on the street, but is considerably more luxurious, much better detailed, and much larger for the same price. Not the same vehicle (truck vs. small station wagon), but a better buy at list price.

Carrera GT

Great news about the TD Touareg. Thanks. Now I have to consider waiting until next year for the replacement work horse vehicle.

The Phaeton is another interesting move by VW to ask the US market to "recognise" their brand. Tough job.

As for RR'03 compared to Cayenne or Touareg, I agree there's little basis for comparison. Ironically, the Cayenne, equiped to approximately the same spec as the RR (which has only one option in the US, so it's an easy target) works out to be more expensive. I think Porsche is facing another "course correction" as they did with the 993 after the 964.

Hmmm. Can't stop thinking about that TD Touareg.

Have you noticed the Euro prices for the Touareg are much higher than US prices? (currency exchange taken into consideration) Perhaps US cars have a shorter standard equipment list. In any case, a $40,700 V8 Touareg is maybe a good "stop gap" and then trade up to the "real deal" TD next year.

Then again, I keep hearing of discounting close to invoice on the Cayenne S. Maybe I can work with the local dealer to get a number on the Cayenne. Maybe do some auto-x in summer...

NMoore

Carrera--my thinking is along similar lines to yours, bottom line the V8 Touareg seems to be a steal if it really comes fairly optioned up at under $50,000. I had not noticed Euro pricing but note that the tax regime is a lot different there and can cause a lot of distortion (especially UK).

The TDi for all that power also gets something like 23mpg versus the usual 14mpg on the gas V8, hope we really start to get engines like that.

I really haven't tried to shop the Cayenne, but discounts certainly ought to be easy to get right now. I drove the S (which was surprisingly sedan-like, drives just great) mostly to check the dimensions and layout, i.e. whether the Cayenne/Touareg could replace our current RR, the size of which is really just about perfect for us.

Not actually, even though it is the same length as the previous RR, it is not nearly as roomy since the interior height is so much less. Oddly enough, though, came away more interested in the platform (especially cheaper Touareg) since perhaps I will upgrade workhorse Beetle Turbo instead, which somehow transmogrified from my wife's car to my commuter (baby drop-off). I do use the 4wd for hunting so having "my own" would not be that goofy, no worse than having two cars now that won't fit the baby and my golf clubs at the same time.

My wife has a station wagon phobia, so I am banned from having the S6/S4 Avant, which would be the practical solution.

NMoore

The rather poorly named Phaeton (supposed to be a drop-head) reminds me a lot of the Allante, pretty good car that slipped through the cracks and became a cult used car bargain.