Porsche has not lost it's way!
03-23-2003, 10:38 PM
#1
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Porsche has not lost it's way!
I had the opportunity to drive (autocross) the Cayenne Turbo at the Barber track in Alabama today, as well as being taken round the track in both the S and Turbo.
I've been waiting quite a while to test these vehicles and I have to say that they blew me away.
No, they're not as fast as a 911 because of the weight but they're mighty fast and feel very balanced, just like a Boxster.
The handling is superb, the acceleration awesome and the braking.... wow!
I simply don't understand all the negativity about this vehicle.
I've spent 4 days in a RR (03) and own a G500 and I can tell you, without a doubt, that my next SUV will be A Cayenne. It exceeds my expectations, by a long way.
I'm currently doing the PDE in the Boxster and the 911, and while different the Cayenne is a very rewarding driving experience in a track environment. It's a real Porsche!
Don't believe me though, leave the bias at home, try it out for yourself.
You won't be surprised, you'll be amazed. I was. It's not a race car but it wonderfully balanced, easy to hold on the edge (Boxsterlike) and very satisfying.
It's all you'll ever need (and then some) in a family vehicle.
Trust me!
I've been waiting quite a while to test these vehicles and I have to say that they blew me away.
No, they're not as fast as a 911 because of the weight but they're mighty fast and feel very balanced, just like a Boxster.
The handling is superb, the acceleration awesome and the braking.... wow!
I simply don't understand all the negativity about this vehicle.
I've spent 4 days in a RR (03) and own a G500 and I can tell you, without a doubt, that my next SUV will be A Cayenne. It exceeds my expectations, by a long way.
I'm currently doing the PDE in the Boxster and the 911, and while different the Cayenne is a very rewarding driving experience in a track environment. It's a real Porsche!
Don't believe me though, leave the bias at home, try it out for yourself.
You won't be surprised, you'll be amazed. I was. It's not a race car but it wonderfully balanced, easy to hold on the edge (Boxsterlike) and very satisfying.
It's all you'll ever need (and then some) in a family vehicle.
Trust me!
03-24-2003, 12:13 AM
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Colm,
I am very glad you enjoyed the Cayenne. I still am wondering what all the negativity is about. The way I look at it, just like Dr. Ing h.c. Ferdinand Porsche, if you don't like what's out here go an build it yourself. If you cannot "shut up."
Also maybe I have reached a point where I fail to understand the comparison between cost an luxury. Why is it expected because the Cayenne TT cost $89,000 base it supposed to be luxurious? Why? The H1 cost the same amount and no one expects the H1 to be luxurious??? EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN !!
I am very glad you enjoyed the Cayenne. I still am wondering what all the negativity is about. The way I look at it, just like Dr. Ing h.c. Ferdinand Porsche, if you don't like what's out here go an build it yourself. If you cannot "shut up."
Also maybe I have reached a point where I fail to understand the comparison between cost an luxury. Why is it expected because the Cayenne TT cost $89,000 base it supposed to be luxurious? Why? The H1 cost the same amount and no one expects the H1 to be luxurious??? EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN, EXPLAIN !!
03-24-2003, 12:51 AM
#4
I wouldn't be too quick to say "bias" (bias for or against what, exactly?) or "all the negativity" and personally, as one of the "not impressed" Porschephiles, I'd say the reaction could be a lot worse for such a mediocre vehicle measured by Porsche standards.
As for terms of reference, the '03 Rangie is nice highway car, it lopes along, softens up the crappy US highways and by-ways, generally does a helluva lot better than its predecessors, but it's not designed to change direction in haste.
The G500 is interesting, but not relevant.
Surely not even the factory or sales people say either Cayenne is a balanced vehicle?
And these comparisons to the Boxster will do nothing but torment Boxster owners and their suffering with precipitous depreciation. One could argue that will be the strongest similarity between the two vehicles in a year.
I would add that Porsche is wrong in the worst possible way to be beating up the Boxster with its marketing comparisons to the Cayenne -- Porsche should be able to seel the new VW *** Porsche truck without belittling the one vehicle that kept them out of receivership for the last four or five years. For shame! For shame! (in the words of Grand-pa Simpson...)
But I would like to hear more about your days at PDE -- did they have the Cayennes there as a sales pitch or part of the event or just a coincidence?
Cheers,
Adam
ps. don't take me too seriously on my disregard for the g-wagen ...
As for terms of reference, the '03 Rangie is nice highway car, it lopes along, softens up the crappy US highways and by-ways, generally does a helluva lot better than its predecessors, but it's not designed to change direction in haste.
The G500 is interesting, but not relevant.
Surely not even the factory or sales people say either Cayenne is a balanced vehicle?
And these comparisons to the Boxster will do nothing but torment Boxster owners and their suffering with precipitous depreciation. One could argue that will be the strongest similarity between the two vehicles in a year.
I would add that Porsche is wrong in the worst possible way to be beating up the Boxster with its marketing comparisons to the Cayenne -- Porsche should be able to seel the new VW *** Porsche truck without belittling the one vehicle that kept them out of receivership for the last four or five years. For shame! For shame! (in the words of Grand-pa Simpson...)
But I would like to hear more about your days at PDE -- did they have the Cayennes there as a sales pitch or part of the event or just a coincidence?
Cheers,
Adam
ps. don't take me too seriously on my disregard for the g-wagen ...
03-24-2003, 06:47 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
With all respect, G500 is is not very good in handling. Cayenne is massive culture schock compared to G500 in that respect.
I'm glad that You enjoyed. I am wondering either all this negative fuss around Cayenne, told by people never really driven it.
Porsche is lifestyle and some day You have to tow your boat or go biking.
I'm glad that You enjoyed. I am wondering either all this negative fuss around Cayenne, told by people never really driven it.
Porsche is lifestyle and some day You have to tow your boat or go biking.
03-24-2003, 06:10 PM
#6
I agree with you regarding the Cayenne. You really can't judge the thing until you drive it.
Hey Colm, what do you think about the Barber track? I am going to be there on Sunday for a Historical Racing Society race.
Hey Colm, what do you think about the Barber track? I am going to be there on Sunday for a Historical Racing Society race.
03-24-2003, 08:38 PM
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I was ambivalent about the looks, but after driving it I didn't care what it looked like, it was fantastic. BTW the looks are OK, just as good (or bad) as anything else
The comparison to the Boxster was to make the point about in back to back autocross runs it handled superbly, just brake a little earlier. Porsche never compared the Cayenne to the Boxster I did, it was that good, but they're aimed at different markets.
The G500 ( I know it doesn't handle well, except offroad) and RR are relevant in setting a reference about my "experience" and auto buying habits. I was leaning towards the RR as the next purchase, but I'm glad had the patience to wait. I think the RR is a great vehicle too, but the Cayenne gets the nod based upon performance.
For further reference, I also own a GT2, 911 X51 and have a Carrera GT on order.
There was no sales pitch, the opportunity arose over dinner when I asked the Program director about the possibility of sampling the Cayenne. He offered the S and we talked him up to the turbo. It was simply a nice thing to do.
You can huff and puffall you want on this forum but I'm telling you all ...drive the Cayenne on the track or autocross and form your opinion!
I think you'll be impressed, unless you have ice in your blood.
Lastly, the Barber track is very technical, difficult and fun; and a very modern facility. (Makes the Cayenne even more impressive).
I repeat the Cayenne is a real Porsche, and better than many previous cars
The comparison to the Boxster was to make the point about in back to back autocross runs it handled superbly, just brake a little earlier. Porsche never compared the Cayenne to the Boxster I did, it was that good, but they're aimed at different markets.
The G500 ( I know it doesn't handle well, except offroad) and RR are relevant in setting a reference about my "experience" and auto buying habits. I was leaning towards the RR as the next purchase, but I'm glad had the patience to wait. I think the RR is a great vehicle too, but the Cayenne gets the nod based upon performance.
For further reference, I also own a GT2, 911 X51 and have a Carrera GT on order.
There was no sales pitch, the opportunity arose over dinner when I asked the Program director about the possibility of sampling the Cayenne. He offered the S and we talked him up to the turbo. It was simply a nice thing to do.
You can huff and puffall you want on this forum but I'm telling you all ...drive the Cayenne on the track or autocross and form your opinion!
I think you'll be impressed, unless you have ice in your blood.
Lastly, the Barber track is very technical, difficult and fun; and a very modern facility. (Makes the Cayenne even more impressive).
I repeat the Cayenne is a real Porsche, and better than many previous cars
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03-24-2003, 11:27 PM
#8
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Colm:
From your stable of vehicles, none carry more than 5 people legally. I fit in the category of wanting an SUV that seats 7 or more (SUB, LX470/Landcruiser). With the seating comes the extra storage room.
A small grind I carry is that the Cayenne is in the Sport Activity Vehicle market- which I see as the BMW, MB, Infinity & Lexus market...Even Jeeps Grand Cherokee and the Toureg. A lot of similar cars can be had for a lot less money.
Speaking of money, my BIG grind (as should be yours)is how are you so impressed with the Cayenne Turbo with MORE leather, MORE engine, MORE metal, MORE engineering at $35,000 LESS than a stock 911 Turbo whose manufacturing cost are nil in comparison.
I look at all my past SUV's as something that will get dinged, scratched and abused. Never thought of doing that to any of my previous Porsches.
Jack:
I hated towing my MasterCraft behind my ex-8cyl. Grand Cherokee. Small boat, small SUV still not like it is behind my LandCruiser. I am jealous though at the acceleration & handling I gave up for room, towing & people capacity.
Best to all, ice still in the system.
Tom
02C4 Cab
ex 97S
ex 911S
ex 914
From your stable of vehicles, none carry more than 5 people legally. I fit in the category of wanting an SUV that seats 7 or more (SUB, LX470/Landcruiser). With the seating comes the extra storage room.
A small grind I carry is that the Cayenne is in the Sport Activity Vehicle market- which I see as the BMW, MB, Infinity & Lexus market...Even Jeeps Grand Cherokee and the Toureg. A lot of similar cars can be had for a lot less money.
Speaking of money, my BIG grind (as should be yours)is how are you so impressed with the Cayenne Turbo with MORE leather, MORE engine, MORE metal, MORE engineering at $35,000 LESS than a stock 911 Turbo whose manufacturing cost are nil in comparison.
I look at all my past SUV's as something that will get dinged, scratched and abused. Never thought of doing that to any of my previous Porsches.
Jack:
I hated towing my MasterCraft behind my ex-8cyl. Grand Cherokee. Small boat, small SUV still not like it is behind my LandCruiser. I am jealous though at the acceleration & handling I gave up for room, towing & people capacity.
Best to all, ice still in the system.
Tom
02C4 Cab
ex 97S
ex 911S
ex 914
03-25-2003, 09:05 PM
#9
Colm,
Agree with the "try it you'll like it' thought.
If you peruse this Forum ... all of it.
There are a a 1/2 dozen or so of repeat people, some who have gone Waaaaayy out of their way to put the Cayenne down.
Any mention of this 'rag on the Cayenne habit' is usually addressed with a condescending: "you are being defensive, you misunderstand our simple presentation of fact(sic) response".
Basically, most of the engineering issues were hot air, cost is high -who'd a thunk?-, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And when you drop the apples and oranges argument
; no it isn't a seven passenger vehicle (who said it was?), you can get more for less money when you buy a ..... -fill in the blank- (and your point is?) Oh my God ! Depreciation ... why wasn't I told?
The Cayenne is a well built, thought out, high-end, niche vehicle that, maybe, the world wasn't waiting for...
I think that Porsche did the demographics and the vehicle will sell.
As owners come on line it will prove me either right or wrong.
It's an incredible multi-purpose set of wheels that I hope gets a chance to develope.
In the meantime since arguing facts doesn't work here I'll leave the forum in capable hands and spend a little time figuring out how to change MY definition of Forum.
All in good fun.
BTW
How are the Mercedes fans holding up with the weight of the Maybach pressing down upon them?
Agree with the "try it you'll like it' thought.
If you peruse this Forum ... all of it.
There are a a 1/2 dozen or so of repeat people, some who have gone Waaaaayy out of their way to put the Cayenne down.
Any mention of this 'rag on the Cayenne habit' is usually addressed with a condescending: "you are being defensive, you misunderstand our simple presentation of fact(sic) response".
Basically, most of the engineering issues were hot air, cost is high -who'd a thunk?-, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
And when you drop the apples and oranges argument
; no it isn't a seven passenger vehicle (who said it was?), you can get more for less money when you buy a ..... -fill in the blank- (and your point is?) Oh my God ! Depreciation ... why wasn't I told?
The Cayenne is a well built, thought out, high-end, niche vehicle that, maybe, the world wasn't waiting for...
I think that Porsche did the demographics and the vehicle will sell.
As owners come on line it will prove me either right or wrong.
It's an incredible multi-purpose set of wheels that I hope gets a chance to develope.
In the meantime since arguing facts doesn't work here I'll leave the forum in capable hands and spend a little time figuring out how to change MY definition of Forum.
All in good fun.
BTW
How are the Mercedes fans holding up with the weight of the Maybach pressing down upon them?
03-26-2003, 08:55 AM
#10
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Colm:
<strong>...For further reference, I also own a GT2, 911 X51 and have a Carrera GT on order...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Damn that stable sounds nice!
You should also get 1973 RS, 964 RS, 993 RS or 993 GT2 (I assume yours is 996) and 996 GT3 to join those fab. cars!
<strong>...For further reference, I also own a GT2, 911 X51 and have a Carrera GT on order...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Damn that stable sounds nice!
You should also get 1973 RS, 964 RS, 993 RS or 993 GT2 (I assume yours is 996) and 996 GT3 to join those fab. cars!