Cayenne V6 3,2
05-31-2003, 11:29 AM
#16
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Carrera GT:
<strong>A 240hp 5000lb car. I do not think that is even remotely likely from any maker except Ford and Chev. If Porsche does this, I'm selling my shares and I won't buy back in until they revive their motorsport competition and go back to their origins and release a sports car with super car performance at a fraction of other super car prices.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">yup, I second that
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
<strong>A 240hp 5000lb car. I do not think that is even remotely likely from any maker except Ford and Chev. If Porsche does this, I'm selling my shares and I won't buy back in until they revive their motorsport competition and go back to their origins and release a sports car with super car performance at a fraction of other super car prices.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">yup, I second that
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-31-2003, 05:43 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Carrera GT:
<strong> release a sports car with super car performance at a fraction of other super car prices.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree with most of what you said, but Porsche certainly is not known for selling cars at a fraction of anyone elses prices. IMO their super cars are always going to come with super price tags.
<strong> release a sports car with super car performance at a fraction of other super car prices.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree with most of what you said, but Porsche certainly is not known for selling cars at a fraction of anyone elses prices. IMO their super cars are always going to come with super price tags.
06-01-2003, 02:48 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Jim Lamb:
<strong>If only they could drop in a flat-6 mated to a ZF 6-speed manual tranny.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">... plus Carrera TT 4WD system ????
<strong>If only they could drop in a flat-6 mated to a ZF 6-speed manual tranny.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">... plus Carrera TT 4WD system ????
06-30-2003, 10:42 AM
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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> As seen on rennteam.com this Porsche website already lists a price for the Cayenne V6 3.2 (and for 996 TT Cab):
<a href="http://www.autocarrera.com/models/pricelists.html" target="_blank">price list</a>
<a href="http://www.autocarrera.com/models/pricelists.html" target="_blank">price list</a>
06-30-2003, 02:09 PM
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Small displacement versions of large European cars often do not come here. I might add there really is no substitute for cubic inches, you need torque in these things, not horsepower.
If you actually own the preference shares or expect a lot of Cayenne development projects, I assume you are aware of this:
<a href="http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/story.asp?siteid=ft&dist=ft&guid=%7B37C28587%2D1F2F%2D4C72%2DAE86%2DB406 69E4AC58%7D" target="_blank">http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/story.asp?siteid=ft&dist=ft&guid=%7B37C28587%2D1F2F%2D4C72%2DAE86%2DB406 69E4AC58%7D</a>
If you actually own the preference shares or expect a lot of Cayenne development projects, I assume you are aware of this:
<a href="http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/story.asp?siteid=ft&dist=ft&guid=%7B37C28587%2D1F2F%2D4C72%2DAE86%2DB406 69E4AC58%7D" target="_blank">http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/story.asp?siteid=ft&dist=ft&guid=%7B37C28587%2D1F2F%2D4C72%2DAE86%2DB406 69E4AC58%7D</a>
06-30-2003, 02:27 PM
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"Well, that's enough from Chicken Little for today ..."
Well said... Porsche is going down the food chain & VW is coming up. Hang on shareholders, the CEO of PAG appears to be positioning the company for a buy out by adding market share their infrastructure can't maintain.
Spreadsheet masturbation can make the company look more valuable than it is.........
Buyouts usually pay more than market prices for shares.......... (american companies do).
Nuff said... chicken little II......
Well said... Porsche is going down the food chain & VW is coming up. Hang on shareholders, the CEO of PAG appears to be positioning the company for a buy out by adding market share their infrastructure can't maintain.
Spreadsheet masturbation can make the company look more valuable than it is.........
Buyouts usually pay more than market prices for shares.......... (american companies do).
Nuff said... chicken little II......
06-30-2003, 05:15 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ngfan:
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> As seen on rennteam.com this Porsche website already lists a price for the Cayenne V6 3.2 (and for 996 TT Cab):
<a href="http://www.autocarrera.com/models/pricelists.html" target="_blank">price list</a></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Fortunately, Chicken Little was WRONG
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> As seen on rennteam.com this Porsche website already lists a price for the Cayenne V6 3.2 (and for 996 TT Cab):
<a href="http://www.autocarrera.com/models/pricelists.html" target="_blank">price list</a></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Fortunately, Chicken Little was WRONG
06-30-2003, 06:47 PM
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Sorry to pour cold water on a few things here.... but ......
The lower powered Cayenne is aimed at Non USA markets where cubic inches are less important, fuel is much more heavily taxed and thus more expensive and vehicle prices are historically higher than the US. The V6 version will sell in Europe and will succeed in giving Boxster owners who need four seats a Porsche alternative.
It will sell here in the UK for a similar price to the 'S' in the US - don't start me on how happy that makes me
- but to be fair to Porsche this is an industry wide phenomena - metal with wheels costs less in the US.
The real test for Porsche is to make the extra volume the V6 will provide without quality and supply issues.....
And to upset even more of you here, the real debate re the Cayenne will be whether they are brave enough to put a high powered diesel engine into it ......
As for the financial commentary on the company, sad to say but some here are chasing a horse that has already bolted. The good Chairman is as usual way ahead of you. The Euro-US rates were bound to realign to a more realistic level - hence the hedging of currency until 2006. Sales of 996 and Boxsters were bound to drop towards the end of their production lifespan - especially with a worldwide recession.
It's not by accident or luck that the Cayenne has been released at the right time to keep the coffers full, or that the 997 and then Boxster replacement are about to arrive. It's well judged timing. As for his noises about costs control, you'd expect nothing less from any self respecting CEO of such a succesfull company responding to a share price dip - a perfect opportunity to keep all their suppliers under the thumb too.....
The eternal problem faced by anyone running a listed company that is too succesfull is that the figures are bound to dip eventually - the real question to analyse is whether it's been planned for.
The lower powered Cayenne is aimed at Non USA markets where cubic inches are less important, fuel is much more heavily taxed and thus more expensive and vehicle prices are historically higher than the US. The V6 version will sell in Europe and will succeed in giving Boxster owners who need four seats a Porsche alternative.
It will sell here in the UK for a similar price to the 'S' in the US - don't start me on how happy that makes me
- but to be fair to Porsche this is an industry wide phenomena - metal with wheels costs less in the US.The real test for Porsche is to make the extra volume the V6 will provide without quality and supply issues.....
And to upset even more of you here, the real debate re the Cayenne will be whether they are brave enough to put a high powered diesel engine into it ......
As for the financial commentary on the company, sad to say but some here are chasing a horse that has already bolted. The good Chairman is as usual way ahead of you. The Euro-US rates were bound to realign to a more realistic level - hence the hedging of currency until 2006. Sales of 996 and Boxsters were bound to drop towards the end of their production lifespan - especially with a worldwide recession.
It's not by accident or luck that the Cayenne has been released at the right time to keep the coffers full, or that the 997 and then Boxster replacement are about to arrive. It's well judged timing. As for his noises about costs control, you'd expect nothing less from any self respecting CEO of such a succesfull company responding to a share price dip - a perfect opportunity to keep all their suppliers under the thumb too.....
The eternal problem faced by anyone running a listed company that is too succesfull is that the figures are bound to dip eventually - the real question to analyse is whether it's been planned for.
06-30-2003, 08:09 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Christian S.:
<strong>....The lower powered Cayenne is aimed at Non USA markets ........ The V6 version will sell in Europe and will succeed in giving Boxster owners who need four seats a Porsche alternative. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">PCNA have considered bringing the V6 to the US. I was at a Cayenne market research day 2 yrs ago and they had V6 and V8 mockups there. They basically asked you up front whether you would buy a V6 or a V8 SUV. If you said V8 you went to an area to compare the Cayenne against other V8 SUV's, likewise if you said V6 the Cayenne was up against SUV's like the MDX and 3.0 X5.
I don't know what PCNA's ultimate decision was but I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy.
As for the V6 is appropriate for Boxster owners???.......what a load of crap. What exactly are you suggesting? Poeple only buy Boxster's because they can't afford a 911?? and by association can't afford a Cayenne V8?
For the record I own a Boxster and my other cars is a $65k SUV...so I can happily afford a Cayenne S.
<strong>....The lower powered Cayenne is aimed at Non USA markets ........ The V6 version will sell in Europe and will succeed in giving Boxster owners who need four seats a Porsche alternative. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">PCNA have considered bringing the V6 to the US. I was at a Cayenne market research day 2 yrs ago and they had V6 and V8 mockups there. They basically asked you up front whether you would buy a V6 or a V8 SUV. If you said V8 you went to an area to compare the Cayenne against other V8 SUV's, likewise if you said V6 the Cayenne was up against SUV's like the MDX and 3.0 X5.
I don't know what PCNA's ultimate decision was but I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy.
As for the V6 is appropriate for Boxster owners???.......what a load of crap. What exactly are you suggesting? Poeple only buy Boxster's because they can't afford a 911?? and by association can't afford a Cayenne V8?
For the record I own a Boxster and my other cars is a $65k SUV...so I can happily afford a Cayenne S.
07-01-2003, 05:52 AM
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Welcome to Rennlist JB!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JB in Irvine:
<strong>I don't know what PCNA's ultimate decision was but I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'd be surprised if it did - my comments were about Non-European markets where fuel economy is much more critical. The decision to sell the V6 in the US will be based on an assessment of the largest SUV market in the world - a very different market to the smaller ones in other countries and one largely based on the low cost of fuel.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>As for the V6 is appropriate for Boxster owners???.......what a load of crap. What exactly are you suggesting? Poeple only buy Boxster's because they can't afford a 911?? and by association can't afford a Cayenne V8?
For the record I own a Boxster and my other cars is a $65k SUV...so I can happily afford a Cayenne S.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Not my suggestion at all, JB, and I'm very happy you can afford an 'S' as well as your Boxster. The use of the word "appropriate" is yours, not mine. I was refering to one of Porsche's main reasons for building the Cayenne - that of wishing to retain Porsche owners who are being forced to sell their Porsche sports car when family pressures require a larger vehicle.
The idea is that the Cayenne acts as a bridge between early years of Porsche ownership and later years of ownership. We've already had several examples here of people discussing the Cayenne in these terms. If you, as a Boxster owner, are being forced to sell it because your young family requires more practical transport, the V6 Cayenne is going to be much more price similar than an 'S'.
If you can afford two or more vehicles, then this doesn't apply. But to answer your question, yes, there will be many Boxster owners out there who can't afford an 'S' alternative but can afford a V6 instead. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just a fact of life.
For the record, you'll find many Boxster owners who'd love a 996/997 but can't afford one yet. You'll also find Boxster owners like yourself who don't. Look closer here in Rennlist and I have no doubt you'll find many older 911 owners who'd love a Boxster, but can't afford one or justify one at the moment. You'll also find many who wouldn't want one.
Personal choice - it's a wonderful thing. When you're in the business of selling cars however, personal budgets do count and that's why Porsche hope the V6 will be the "alternative" for many Boxster owners who are considering selling their two seater for something that takes baby seats, prams and all the other "crap" that comes with young families......
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JB in Irvine:
<strong>I don't know what PCNA's ultimate decision was but I doubt it had anything to do with fuel economy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'd be surprised if it did - my comments were about Non-European markets where fuel economy is much more critical. The decision to sell the V6 in the US will be based on an assessment of the largest SUV market in the world - a very different market to the smaller ones in other countries and one largely based on the low cost of fuel.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>As for the V6 is appropriate for Boxster owners???.......what a load of crap. What exactly are you suggesting? Poeple only buy Boxster's because they can't afford a 911?? and by association can't afford a Cayenne V8?
For the record I own a Boxster and my other cars is a $65k SUV...so I can happily afford a Cayenne S.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Not my suggestion at all, JB, and I'm very happy you can afford an 'S' as well as your Boxster. The use of the word "appropriate" is yours, not mine. I was refering to one of Porsche's main reasons for building the Cayenne - that of wishing to retain Porsche owners who are being forced to sell their Porsche sports car when family pressures require a larger vehicle.
The idea is that the Cayenne acts as a bridge between early years of Porsche ownership and later years of ownership. We've already had several examples here of people discussing the Cayenne in these terms. If you, as a Boxster owner, are being forced to sell it because your young family requires more practical transport, the V6 Cayenne is going to be much more price similar than an 'S'.
If you can afford two or more vehicles, then this doesn't apply. But to answer your question, yes, there will be many Boxster owners out there who can't afford an 'S' alternative but can afford a V6 instead. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just a fact of life.
For the record, you'll find many Boxster owners who'd love a 996/997 but can't afford one yet. You'll also find Boxster owners like yourself who don't. Look closer here in Rennlist and I have no doubt you'll find many older 911 owners who'd love a Boxster, but can't afford one or justify one at the moment. You'll also find many who wouldn't want one.
Personal choice - it's a wonderful thing. When you're in the business of selling cars however, personal budgets do count and that's why Porsche hope the V6 will be the "alternative" for many Boxster owners who are considering selling their two seater for something that takes baby seats, prams and all the other "crap" that comes with young families......
07-03-2003, 11:51 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Christian S.:
<strong>Welcome to Rennlist JB!
..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for the welcome....and you are quite correct fuel economy will have little to do with selling the V6 in the US. I think I did not express myself correctly.
I think the debate was whether the PCNA is planning to sell the V6 in the US. I think you responded with something like "sorry to pour cold water on things.....the V6 is aimed as non-US markets"
The point I was trying to make was from that from the very beginning they were thinking of selling the V6 in the US...thats why its was at the mkt research day 2 years ago. The V6 was not specially built for Europe or other high fuel cost regions. BMW, MB and Lexus all sell lots of V6 SUV's in the US.
As for the V6 giving a Boxster owner 4 seats, I think it would also give a 911 owner 4 seats as well. No one can seriously consider a 911 as a 4 seater.
I think you quite deliberately connected the "cheap" Porsche sportscar (Boxster) with the "cheap" Cayenne product (V6).
I know lots of Boxster owners who could have afforded any Porsche, but they chose the Boxster. I also know a few Boxster owners who have not waited for the V6 to land on US soil...but rather have bought a Cayenne Turbo
<strong>Welcome to Rennlist JB!
..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for the welcome....and you are quite correct fuel economy will have little to do with selling the V6 in the US. I think I did not express myself correctly.
I think the debate was whether the PCNA is planning to sell the V6 in the US. I think you responded with something like "sorry to pour cold water on things.....the V6 is aimed as non-US markets"
The point I was trying to make was from that from the very beginning they were thinking of selling the V6 in the US...thats why its was at the mkt research day 2 years ago. The V6 was not specially built for Europe or other high fuel cost regions. BMW, MB and Lexus all sell lots of V6 SUV's in the US.
As for the V6 giving a Boxster owner 4 seats, I think it would also give a 911 owner 4 seats as well. No one can seriously consider a 911 as a 4 seater.
I think you quite deliberately connected the "cheap" Porsche sportscar (Boxster) with the "cheap" Cayenne product (V6).
I know lots of Boxster owners who could have afforded any Porsche, but they chose the Boxster. I also know a few Boxster owners who have not waited for the V6 to land on US soil...but rather have bought a Cayenne Turbo
07-04-2003, 05:28 AM
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Happy to stand corrected JB, if the V6 is going to sell well in the US, then I guess we are still going to be the poor second cousins over here in Europe and have to cope with limited supply and long waiting lists.....
If it sounded like I was classifying the Boxster "cheap", then I must have been expressing myself badly, nothing could be further from my thoughts. I'm a great fan of the car and have few preconceptions about those who own them, other than that they have great taste!
My point remains though, that some are not in the happy position of being able to afford 996 or 'S' prices and that for some the Boxster is the first "rung" on the ladder of New Porsche ownership. The introduction of the V6 adds an equivalent alternative in Porsche's stated aim of retaining customers throughout their lives.
Toward this aim there is a very simple and obvious symmetry here - purely in price terms - Boxster = Cayenne V6, 996 = Cayenne 'S', 996 Turbo = Cayenne Turbo. This is is no way meant to be a "rule", just a business strategy in trying to sell more cars.
If it sounded like I was classifying the Boxster "cheap", then I must have been expressing myself badly, nothing could be further from my thoughts. I'm a great fan of the car and have few preconceptions about those who own them, other than that they have great taste!
My point remains though, that some are not in the happy position of being able to afford 996 or 'S' prices and that for some the Boxster is the first "rung" on the ladder of New Porsche ownership. The introduction of the V6 adds an equivalent alternative in Porsche's stated aim of retaining customers throughout their lives.
Toward this aim there is a very simple and obvious symmetry here - purely in price terms - Boxster = Cayenne V6, 996 = Cayenne 'S', 996 Turbo = Cayenne Turbo. This is is no way meant to be a "rule", just a business strategy in trying to sell more cars.
07-04-2003, 11:05 AM
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Christian,
I like your comparisons irrespective of whether the small Cayenne comes to the US. That marketing decision may be more tactical than strategic, depending upon how sales of the Cayenne go worldwide.
Your comments are pretty clear, and I don't interpret them as being judgemental or off base.
From what I can see (based on a few weeks of scouring dealerships for a car), if the economy improves Cayenne sales are going to explode I have friends who have always been Mercedes owners buy the Cayenne and they love it... they in turn are going to sell their friends, and so on.
I like your comparisons irrespective of whether the small Cayenne comes to the US. That marketing decision may be more tactical than strategic, depending upon how sales of the Cayenne go worldwide.
Your comments are pretty clear, and I don't interpret them as being judgemental or off base.
From what I can see (based on a few weeks of scouring dealerships for a car), if the economy improves Cayenne sales are going to explode I have friends who have always been Mercedes owners buy the Cayenne and they love it... they in turn are going to sell their friends, and so on.
07-04-2003, 01:01 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Christian S.:
<strong>......Toward this aim there is a very simple and obvious symmetry here - purely in price terms - Boxster = Cayenne V6, 996 = Cayenne 'S', 996 Turbo = Cayenne Turbo. This is is no way meant to be a "rule", just a business strategy in trying to sell more cars.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Without wanting to labor a point, The Boxster S stickers for about the same money as the Cayenne S. My Boxster S stickered for $60k and didn't have many options beyond full leather and power seats.
I personally hope Porsche doesn't sell the Cayenne V6 in the US. BMW and MB can get away with selling a slower SUV, but think Porsche needs to meet a certain performance level.
Either way I think the Cayenne is a great SUV!
<strong>......Toward this aim there is a very simple and obvious symmetry here - purely in price terms - Boxster = Cayenne V6, 996 = Cayenne 'S', 996 Turbo = Cayenne Turbo. This is is no way meant to be a "rule", just a business strategy in trying to sell more cars.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Without wanting to labor a point, The Boxster S stickers for about the same money as the Cayenne S. My Boxster S stickered for $60k and didn't have many options beyond full leather and power seats.
I personally hope Porsche doesn't sell the Cayenne V6 in the US. BMW and MB can get away with selling a slower SUV, but think Porsche needs to meet a certain performance level.
Either way I think the Cayenne is a great SUV!
