TT with OFFRoad Package
04-22-2003, 03:50 PM
#1
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TT with OFFRoad Package
I ordered my TT with the offroad package. Confirmed expected delivery in July. In the meantime, I am told that the offroad package includes enhanced front/back angle compared to the standard TT suspension? Others say, that this is only included with a so called "Technical Offroad Package"?
Anybody has some insights?
Anybody has some insights?
04-22-2003, 11:42 PM
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Did you order the "Off-Road Design Package"? In the US that is option code PA1 and lists for $3,100. It is primarily cosmetic only with black wheel housing trim, running boards and some type of front guard.
The "Technical Off-Road Package", available at some undetermined later date, will have sway bars that can disengage, allowing greater wheel travel, and a lockable rear differential. These are not cosmetic features and will offer real benifits for off-road use. I do not think they will affect approach and departure angles however. I have not seen any more information on this package. It may have become available in your area, I don't know. Tell us what you know about the features on the option you ordered.
The "Technical Off-Road Package", available at some undetermined later date, will have sway bars that can disengage, allowing greater wheel travel, and a lockable rear differential. These are not cosmetic features and will offer real benifits for off-road use. I do not think they will affect approach and departure angles however. I have not seen any more information on this package. It may have become available in your area, I don't know. Tell us what you know about the features on the option you ordered.
04-23-2003, 05:13 AM
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I ordered the "Offroad Design Package" in the believe, it offers real front- and rear chassis protection. Anyhow, I own these days a Rangie with which we are doing some heavy off-roading with the family. Thats why I am keen to get the "Technical Package". My dealer stated that all the features, you stated above are included in the "Design Package"??
04-23-2003, 01:15 PM
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GM is correct. There are two packages. The Offroad "Design" package is "design"... for looks only!! The Design package consists of front, side, and fender trims. There will be/is (don't know if it's out yet) an Offroad "Technical" Package, consisting of matte plastic fender trim, metal (vs plastic) underbody plates, additional fording depth (underhood snorkle), "de coupling" roll bars (turns the Cayenne into a "beam axle" layout, and a lockable rear diff, along with new programming for PTSM. Quite a package!! No package impacts departure or approach angles...
J
J
04-26-2003, 03:21 AM
#5
This "beam axle" idea is confusing -- what do you mean?
Also, I haven't heard of any engine bay differences like a snorkel or any reference to increasing the fording depth (which is a product of door seals, high-mounted electrics etc too) or reprogramming the PASM, PTM, PSM or ASR, ABD, ABS all of which would need to behave appropriately in extreme conditions.
The detachable anti-roll bars might just be the one functional differentiator between the Cayenne and the Touareg -- the spec for the Touareg V8x (their off-road variant) doesn't mention detachable anti-roll bars.
I saw an after-market product for the Land Cruiser to modify the factory sway bars to detach. In simple terms, you'd stop the car on level ground, get out and unlatch each side, front and rear. A long pin bolted to the sway would stay with the sway bar. When you wanted to reconnect the bars, you'd push the spring of the latch back into place on all four corners and then the movement of the car would push the bar back into place. Two huge problems -- one, the torsion on those bars on a big truck working hard off road is enormous, so things fatigue and fail, two, the mechanism didn't like to get packed in hard, dense, dry mud or clay. I would normally trust Mr Porsche to have put in the R&D, but there are already a handful of blunders in the Cayenne design that suggest we'll see "revisions."
Here's the stuff from a Porsche press release.
Safe traction even on the roughest terrain
As an option, Porsche offers the Advanced Offroad Technology Package for the most extreme off-pavement conditions. Apart from special side protection and a steel plate underfloor panel around the radiator, this package includes a fully controllable (up to 100 percent) differential lock on the rear axle. To fully activate the lock, the driver operates the central off-pavement switch a third time. The fully controlled rear axle lock then ensures even better traction when setting off on slippery surfaces with varying frictional coefficients and in bends.
The package also uses anti-roll bars on the front and rear axle, which are hydraulically activated and deactivated by a switch in the center console. This increases front and rear axle lock by 70 mm or 2.76 inches, which improves ride comfort by minimizing body sway and enhancing off-pavement driving qualities and traction when negotiating rocks, tree trunks or bumps.
To ensure the Cayenne?s sporting driving qualities on the road, the anti-roll bars can only be disconnected in the low range mode. As soon as the Cayenne, with its anti-roll bars disconnected, returns from rough terrain to the road, the anti-roll bars are automatically reconnected once the vehicle exceeds 50 km/h or 31 mph to provide the additional stability required for on-pavement driving as a safety feature.
Also, I haven't heard of any engine bay differences like a snorkel or any reference to increasing the fording depth (which is a product of door seals, high-mounted electrics etc too) or reprogramming the PASM, PTM, PSM or ASR, ABD, ABS all of which would need to behave appropriately in extreme conditions.
The detachable anti-roll bars might just be the one functional differentiator between the Cayenne and the Touareg -- the spec for the Touareg V8x (their off-road variant) doesn't mention detachable anti-roll bars.
I saw an after-market product for the Land Cruiser to modify the factory sway bars to detach. In simple terms, you'd stop the car on level ground, get out and unlatch each side, front and rear. A long pin bolted to the sway would stay with the sway bar. When you wanted to reconnect the bars, you'd push the spring of the latch back into place on all four corners and then the movement of the car would push the bar back into place. Two huge problems -- one, the torsion on those bars on a big truck working hard off road is enormous, so things fatigue and fail, two, the mechanism didn't like to get packed in hard, dense, dry mud or clay. I would normally trust Mr Porsche to have put in the R&D, but there are already a handful of blunders in the Cayenne design that suggest we'll see "revisions."
Here's the stuff from a Porsche press release.
Safe traction even on the roughest terrain
As an option, Porsche offers the Advanced Offroad Technology Package for the most extreme off-pavement conditions. Apart from special side protection and a steel plate underfloor panel around the radiator, this package includes a fully controllable (up to 100 percent) differential lock on the rear axle. To fully activate the lock, the driver operates the central off-pavement switch a third time. The fully controlled rear axle lock then ensures even better traction when setting off on slippery surfaces with varying frictional coefficients and in bends.
The package also uses anti-roll bars on the front and rear axle, which are hydraulically activated and deactivated by a switch in the center console. This increases front and rear axle lock by 70 mm or 2.76 inches, which improves ride comfort by minimizing body sway and enhancing off-pavement driving qualities and traction when negotiating rocks, tree trunks or bumps.
To ensure the Cayenne?s sporting driving qualities on the road, the anti-roll bars can only be disconnected in the low range mode. As soon as the Cayenne, with its anti-roll bars disconnected, returns from rough terrain to the road, the anti-roll bars are automatically reconnected once the vehicle exceeds 50 km/h or 31 mph to provide the additional stability required for on-pavement driving as a safety feature.
04-27-2003, 06:04 AM
#7
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Carrera GT
I just read a testreport in the "OFF-Road.de" magazin. They claim that the advanced package starts to deliver in September this year.
Overall, they consider the limited axle beam of 161 mm as the major weakness for elegant and heavy offroading. However, this limitation does not prevent the TT to the climb heavy spots.
I just read a testreport in the "OFF-Road.de" magazin. They claim that the advanced package starts to deliver in September this year.
Overall, they consider the limited axle beam of 161 mm as the major weakness for elegant and heavy offroading. However, this limitation does not prevent the TT to the climb heavy spots.
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04-28-2003, 12:06 PM
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GT,
Well, here goes... and it's tough to describe w/o diagrams... the Cayenne's suspension cradles are, in essence, rather conventional suspensions located "inside" hydroformed steel "cages". Under "normal" operation, the suspensions function as "independent" with the "cages" as "protection". When the sways are decoupled - and this can only be done at one speed/height setting, the suspension now "rests" against the cradle - thus giving a funcionality more like a "beam" or "solid" axle.
Admittidly, there is much debate over which is best in off road - fully independent or not... Porsche has taken this solution.
Also - the air intake is supposedly the low point in fording depth - the door seals, electronics, etc can handle a bit more... that is why there have been "bow wave" issues in some offroad displays of Cayennes.
The Off road design package Does Not contain any of these components...
Well, here goes... and it's tough to describe w/o diagrams... the Cayenne's suspension cradles are, in essence, rather conventional suspensions located "inside" hydroformed steel "cages". Under "normal" operation, the suspensions function as "independent" with the "cages" as "protection". When the sways are decoupled - and this can only be done at one speed/height setting, the suspension now "rests" against the cradle - thus giving a funcionality more like a "beam" or "solid" axle.
Admittidly, there is much debate over which is best in off road - fully independent or not... Porsche has taken this solution.
Also - the air intake is supposedly the low point in fording depth - the door seals, electronics, etc can handle a bit more... that is why there have been "bow wave" issues in some offroad displays of Cayennes.
The Off road design package Does Not contain any of these components...
04-29-2003, 12:15 PM
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Look - I never said it "was" a "beam axle"... though I should have said "mimicked" a beam axle.
Here's the issue: a fully ind. susp on a very rough surface means that one side can compress while the other side does not - thus ground clearance at the other side "may" be an issue. Some offroaders claim that a solid (beam) axle design (one side goes up, other side goes up) is better. I make no claim as to which is better - hell - I don't know!! I'm just reporting what I do know.
J
Here's the issue: a fully ind. susp on a very rough surface means that one side can compress while the other side does not - thus ground clearance at the other side "may" be an issue. Some offroaders claim that a solid (beam) axle design (one side goes up, other side goes up) is better. I make no claim as to which is better - hell - I don't know!! I'm just reporting what I do know.
J
05-02-2003, 01:15 AM
#13
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Colm:
<strong>And the blunders are?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Man!
Colm -- you're all over my posts, I don't get to make any throw-away statements without you finding 'em and calling 'em out. Sheesh -- the whole idea of forums is to make wild accusations and walk away without justification or reason ...
Anyway, here's my two "favourite" blunders:
The rear edge of the rear doors is a painted surface exposed to the rear tyres. On an unsealed road, that paint will get sand-blasted.
The rear seat folding is a clumsy, heavy and awkward process and the rear cargo net roller thing is heavy and clunky -- go play around with it, it's not the kind of engineering and design I'd expect from Porsche.
One could argue the cold reception to the styling of the Cayenne show a blunder in market research and customer testing.
Just a few personal perspective "blunders" ...
<strong>And the blunders are?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Man!
Colm -- you're all over my posts, I don't get to make any throw-away statements without you finding 'em and calling 'em out. Sheesh -- the whole idea of forums is to make wild accusations and walk away without justification or reason ...
Anyway, here's my two "favourite" blunders:
The rear edge of the rear doors is a painted surface exposed to the rear tyres. On an unsealed road, that paint will get sand-blasted.
The rear seat folding is a clumsy, heavy and awkward process and the rear cargo net roller thing is heavy and clunky -- go play around with it, it's not the kind of engineering and design I'd expect from Porsche.
One could argue the cold reception to the styling of the Cayenne show a blunder in market research and customer testing.
Just a few personal perspective "blunders" ...
05-02-2003, 11:51 AM
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Carrera GT,
Didn't mean to "hassle" you.
I think we're both working through the Cayenne decision buying process, and the off road capability is a big part of it.
After reading these posts and thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that for off road (vs off pavement) the Cayenne needs additional development. I wonder how much a priority that will be at Porsche, since their volome sales priority will be aimed at the "soft" off-road market.
So, I came to a conclusion, after nearly buying a TT last weekend, that I'm going to wait for the above development. And in the meantime stick with the "purist" approach and king of off roaders, and enjoy my new G500, warts and all.
Didn't mean to "hassle" you.
I think we're both working through the Cayenne decision buying process, and the off road capability is a big part of it.
After reading these posts and thinking about it, I've come to the conclusion that for off road (vs off pavement) the Cayenne needs additional development. I wonder how much a priority that will be at Porsche, since their volome sales priority will be aimed at the "soft" off-road market.
So, I came to a conclusion, after nearly buying a TT last weekend, that I'm going to wait for the above development. And in the meantime stick with the "purist" approach and king of off roaders, and enjoy my new G500, warts and all.
