Your experience going from Audi S4 (B5) to Cayenne?
12-08-2011, 03:08 PM
#32
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Cole, if I shop for an '06 CTT what do you regards as the "must haves," performance-wise.
By the way, I appreciate your time on this and everyone else who has chimed in.
This feels like a B5 S4 after-party.
David
By the way, I appreciate your time on this and everyone else who has chimed in.
This feels like a B5 S4 after-party.
David
12-08-2011, 03:23 PM
#33
Thanks.
I suppose a lot of it is going to depend on what you personally want in the car.
My "must haves" were tow package, 2 zone climate control and not four. (rear pickup vent is in the cargo area and I have two big dogs), 4 heated seats, no wood or carbon fiber trim because they eliminate the heated steering wheel.Sunroof, not pano roof, and yes there are sunroof delete Cayennes. Color multi purpose display. (some early ones only had he monochrome) full leather dash come standard in turbo but not GTS and S,.homelink ( look at the overhead console, some don't have it)Had to be black or Titainium.
Then there was the list of wants but not a deal breaker. Keyless entry an drive,(have it), dual battery (have it), sport seats or smooth leather over the fluffy looking comfort ones, Heated timer thingy, off road tech package with locker, sport thick leather steering wheel, sport techno wheels, alcantara headliner (option, but most turbos have it), parking heater, non smokers package (6 power outlets and a tray in place of the ashtrays), Rear window shades, memory seats, PCM,
I'm sure the list of options goes on. Just remember all these options were added individually to the car. There were no packages other than just being a turbo. So its possible to find two identically priced cars with vastly different options.
I suppose a lot of it is going to depend on what you personally want in the car.
My "must haves" were tow package, 2 zone climate control and not four. (rear pickup vent is in the cargo area and I have two big dogs), 4 heated seats, no wood or carbon fiber trim because they eliminate the heated steering wheel.Sunroof, not pano roof, and yes there are sunroof delete Cayennes. Color multi purpose display. (some early ones only had he monochrome) full leather dash come standard in turbo but not GTS and S,.homelink ( look at the overhead console, some don't have it)Had to be black or Titainium.
Then there was the list of wants but not a deal breaker. Keyless entry an drive,(have it), dual battery (have it), sport seats or smooth leather over the fluffy looking comfort ones, Heated timer thingy, off road tech package with locker, sport thick leather steering wheel, sport techno wheels, alcantara headliner (option, but most turbos have it), parking heater, non smokers package (6 power outlets and a tray in place of the ashtrays), Rear window shades, memory seats, PCM,
I'm sure the list of options goes on. Just remember all these options were added individually to the car. There were no packages other than just being a turbo. So its possible to find two identically priced cars with vastly different options.
12-08-2011, 03:27 PM
#34
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Thanks.
I suppose a lot of it is going to depend on what you personally want in the car.
My "must haves" were tow package, 2 zone climate control and not four. (rear pickup vent is in the cargo area and I have two big dogs), 4 heated seats, no wood or carbon fiber trim because they eliminate the heated steering wheel.Sunroof, not pano roof, and yes there are sunroof delete Cayennes. Color multi purpose display. (some early ones only had he monochrome with the full leather dash come standard in turbo but not GTS and S,.homelink, Had to be black or Titainium.
Then there was the list of wants but not a deal breaker. Keyless entry an drive,(have it), dual battery (have it), sport seats or smooth leather over the fluffy looking comfort ones, Heated timer thingy, off road tech package with locker, sport thick leather steering wheel, sport techno wheels, alcantara headliner (option, but most turbos have it), parking heater, non smokers package (6 power outlets and a tray in place of the ashtrays), Rear window shades, memory seats, PCM,
I'm sue the list of options goes on.
I suppose a lot of it is going to depend on what you personally want in the car.
My "must haves" were tow package, 2 zone climate control and not four. (rear pickup vent is in the cargo area and I have two big dogs), 4 heated seats, no wood or carbon fiber trim because they eliminate the heated steering wheel.Sunroof, not pano roof, and yes there are sunroof delete Cayennes. Color multi purpose display. (some early ones only had he monochrome with the full leather dash come standard in turbo but not GTS and S,.homelink, Had to be black or Titainium.
Then there was the list of wants but not a deal breaker. Keyless entry an drive,(have it), dual battery (have it), sport seats or smooth leather over the fluffy looking comfort ones, Heated timer thingy, off road tech package with locker, sport thick leather steering wheel, sport techno wheels, alcantara headliner (option, but most turbos have it), parking heater, non smokers package (6 power outlets and a tray in place of the ashtrays), Rear window shades, memory seats, PCM,
I'm sue the list of options goes on.
12-08-2011, 03:32 PM
#35
I could be flat out wrong on this one. I don't think pdcc happened until the 08 model year.
They all hae PSM.
The 04-05 had an E81 powering option that simply became the "Turbo S" for 06. (lower control arm bushings were different, tie rod ends, lowering module, intercoolers and ECM software, larger brakes)
They all hae PSM.
The 04-05 had an E81 powering option that simply became the "Turbo S" for 06. (lower control arm bushings were different, tie rod ends, lowering module, intercoolers and ECM software, larger brakes)
12-08-2011, 03:56 PM
#36
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I suspect you are right about the pdcc. I do not think I have ever seen a pre-'08 with that as a listed option.
Is the CTT or CTTS heavier in the nose than the GTS? That is one thing I definitley noticed when I went from the Audi A4 (1.8T) to the S4 (2.6 biturbo). The A4 was more athletic and light on its feet. But with 175bhp and measly boost you had to make a reservation to pass someone. Still, loved that car.
David
Is the CTT or CTTS heavier in the nose than the GTS? That is one thing I definitley noticed when I went from the Audi A4 (1.8T) to the S4 (2.6 biturbo). The A4 was more athletic and light on its feet. But with 175bhp and measly boost you had to make a reservation to pass someone. Still, loved that car.
David
12-08-2011, 04:00 PM
#37
I suppose at some level it has to be at least the weight of the turbos heavier. Unlike the B5 A4/S4 the entire rest of the drivetrain and engine is the same.
So it's probably just the weight of two turbochargers different (and a few associated hardware pieces)
Find a cross section picture of the Cayenne and you will realize why it handles better than the Audi. The motor is Low and mostly behind the front wheels, unlike the Audi where it all hangs out in front of the front wheels.
So it's probably just the weight of two turbochargers different (and a few associated hardware pieces)
Find a cross section picture of the Cayenne and you will realize why it handles better than the Audi. The motor is Low and mostly behind the front wheels, unlike the Audi where it all hangs out in front of the front wheels.
12-08-2011, 04:22 PM
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12-09-2011, 02:03 AM
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Deliberate 1 - Funny you should ask, I currently drive both an '00 S4 and an '08 GTS w/ 6 spd. Hope my perspective helps your analysis.
I LOVE the GTS! I think you will be extremely happy with it as a replacement for the S4, even with the extra mass.
Why?
1. Handling.
Better balance masks the mass compared to the S4. When I first got the GTS i hit my favorite off ramp and was damn near as fast as my S4 which is highly modified for track days - Ohlins w/ 800/900 spring rates f/r. Clearly the over all weight and mass in the nose combined with 235 width tires limit the capability S4, but given the GTS weighs 1300 lbs more with a much higher center of gravity there's no way it should be close to the S4 in terms of static grip. I have also driven the back roads after a camping trip recently and while I am very much aware of the mass, I thoroughly enjoyed pushing the GTS in the twisties. Not the point and shoot level the S4 is capable of, but reasonably close with less risk of being tempted into hooligan level driving, which is what the track days are for.
2. Age of the S4
Wow has the GTS done a number on my preference for which vehicle to drive when walking out the door. I prefer driving the GTS over the S4 in daily driving situations. This is partly because I have modified the S4 too much for DD duty. The GTS allows me to be enthusiastic - the sport button rules! and yet just as quickly tone it down via deactivating the sport button. I am a huge fan of having damper settings - it's magnificent to hit some on/ off ramps and then just hit the comfort button for tooling through town with broken pavement. I love leaving it in comfort after activating the sport button so I can listen to the exhaust note snarl - appeals to my inner teenager.
Other key features over the S4 that I like. Heated steering wheel is really a pleasant surprise. Adaptive headlights w/ the bi-xenon option deliver cornering lamps which are perfect for dark streets at slow speeds; plus the xenon lights are very impressive. V8 warms up sooo much quicker than the 2.7 which is beneficial for cabin comfort as well as getting on it quicker if necessary.
3. Versatility
No surprise hear given the comparison is a sedan to a SUV, but I took the GTS on a road trip this summer to Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Nevada. The ability to have the car gilled w/ a mother-in-law box up top and 3 bikes handing off a rack in the back and feel incredibly stable at 100 mph blasting along back roads was an eye opener. Followed by going off road w/ damn near 10" of ground clearance when we hit the camp site.
The engine is a gem - very flexible yet strong. I frequently start off in 2nd gear if it's flat - which helps gas mileage. Yet if I step on it eh engine really pulls hard in the upper rpm. Plus, from 6th gear @ 75 to 100 was a lot faster than I anticipated - for reference my S4 has 480 lbs of torque and does very well in top gear.
Summary
It's time. You've already moved on mentally, you're just doing your due diligence to make sure you're not going to have a purchase hangover in 2 months. If I were in your shoes I'd go for it. After all, how much do you really utilize the sport aspects of the S4 vs the utility the GTS offers. Also, given how close the performance of the GTS to the S4, you're not really giving up much - other than gas mileage. On the other hand, maintenance should be a lot less given the miles on your S4.
Good luck!
I LOVE the GTS! I think you will be extremely happy with it as a replacement for the S4, even with the extra mass.
Why?
1. Handling.
Better balance masks the mass compared to the S4. When I first got the GTS i hit my favorite off ramp and was damn near as fast as my S4 which is highly modified for track days - Ohlins w/ 800/900 spring rates f/r. Clearly the over all weight and mass in the nose combined with 235 width tires limit the capability S4, but given the GTS weighs 1300 lbs more with a much higher center of gravity there's no way it should be close to the S4 in terms of static grip. I have also driven the back roads after a camping trip recently and while I am very much aware of the mass, I thoroughly enjoyed pushing the GTS in the twisties. Not the point and shoot level the S4 is capable of, but reasonably close with less risk of being tempted into hooligan level driving, which is what the track days are for.
2. Age of the S4
Wow has the GTS done a number on my preference for which vehicle to drive when walking out the door. I prefer driving the GTS over the S4 in daily driving situations. This is partly because I have modified the S4 too much for DD duty. The GTS allows me to be enthusiastic - the sport button rules! and yet just as quickly tone it down via deactivating the sport button. I am a huge fan of having damper settings - it's magnificent to hit some on/ off ramps and then just hit the comfort button for tooling through town with broken pavement. I love leaving it in comfort after activating the sport button so I can listen to the exhaust note snarl - appeals to my inner teenager.
Other key features over the S4 that I like. Heated steering wheel is really a pleasant surprise. Adaptive headlights w/ the bi-xenon option deliver cornering lamps which are perfect for dark streets at slow speeds; plus the xenon lights are very impressive. V8 warms up sooo much quicker than the 2.7 which is beneficial for cabin comfort as well as getting on it quicker if necessary.
3. Versatility
No surprise hear given the comparison is a sedan to a SUV, but I took the GTS on a road trip this summer to Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Nevada. The ability to have the car gilled w/ a mother-in-law box up top and 3 bikes handing off a rack in the back and feel incredibly stable at 100 mph blasting along back roads was an eye opener. Followed by going off road w/ damn near 10" of ground clearance when we hit the camp site.
The engine is a gem - very flexible yet strong. I frequently start off in 2nd gear if it's flat - which helps gas mileage. Yet if I step on it eh engine really pulls hard in the upper rpm. Plus, from 6th gear @ 75 to 100 was a lot faster than I anticipated - for reference my S4 has 480 lbs of torque and does very well in top gear.
Summary
It's time. You've already moved on mentally, you're just doing your due diligence to make sure you're not going to have a purchase hangover in 2 months. If I were in your shoes I'd go for it. After all, how much do you really utilize the sport aspects of the S4 vs the utility the GTS offers. Also, given how close the performance of the GTS to the S4, you're not really giving up much - other than gas mileage. On the other hand, maintenance should be a lot less given the miles on your S4.
Good luck!
12-09-2011, 11:25 AM
#42
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Deliberate 1 - Funny you should ask, I currently drive both an '00 S4 and an '08 GTS w/ 6 spd. Hope my perspective helps your analysis.
I LOVE the GTS! I think you will be extremely happy with it as a replacement for the S4, even with the extra mass.
Why?
1. Handling.
Better balance masks the mass compared to the S4. When I first got the GTS i hit my favorite off ramp and was damn near as fast as my S4 which is highly modified for track days - Ohlins w/ 800/900 spring rates f/r. Clearly the over all weight and mass in the nose combined with 235 width tires limit the capability S4, but given the GTS weighs 1300 lbs more with a much higher center of gravity there's no way it should be close to the S4 in terms of static grip. I have also driven the back roads after a camping trip recently and while I am very much aware of the mass, I thoroughly enjoyed pushing the GTS in the twisties. Not the point and shoot level the S4 is capable of, but reasonably close with less risk of being tempted into hooligan level driving, which is what the track days are for.
2. Age of the S4
Wow has the GTS done a number on my preference for which vehicle to drive when walking out the door. I prefer driving the GTS over the S4 in daily driving situations. This is partly because I have modified the S4 too much for DD duty. The GTS allows me to be enthusiastic - the sport button rules! and yet just as quickly tone it down via deactivating the sport button. I am a huge fan of having damper settings - it's magnificent to hit some on/ off ramps and then just hit the comfort button for tooling through town with broken pavement. I love leaving it in comfort after activating the sport button so I can listen to the exhaust note snarl - appeals to my inner teenager.
Other key features over the S4 that I like. Heated steering wheel is really a pleasant surprise. Adaptive headlights w/ the bi-xenon option deliver cornering lamps which are perfect for dark streets at slow speeds; plus the xenon lights are very impressive. V8 warms up sooo much quicker than the 2.7 which is beneficial for cabin comfort as well as getting on it quicker if necessary.
3. Versatility
No surprise hear given the comparison is a sedan to a SUV, but I took the GTS on a road trip this summer to Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Nevada. The ability to have the car gilled w/ a mother-in-law box up top and 3 bikes handing off a rack in the back and feel incredibly stable at 100 mph blasting along back roads was an eye opener. Followed by going off road w/ damn near 10" of ground clearance when we hit the camp site.
The engine is a gem - very flexible yet strong. I frequently start off in 2nd gear if it's flat - which helps gas mileage. Yet if I step on it eh engine really pulls hard in the upper rpm. Plus, from 6th gear @ 75 to 100 was a lot faster than I anticipated - for reference my S4 has 480 lbs of torque and does very well in top gear.
Summary
It's time. You've already moved on mentally, you're just doing your due diligence to make sure you're not going to have a purchase hangover in 2 months. If I were in your shoes I'd go for it. After all, how much do you really utilize the sport aspects of the S4 vs the utility the GTS offers. Also, given how close the performance of the GTS to the S4, you're not really giving up much - other than gas mileage. On the other hand, maintenance should be a lot less given the miles on your S4.
Good luck!
I LOVE the GTS! I think you will be extremely happy with it as a replacement for the S4, even with the extra mass.
Why?
1. Handling.
Better balance masks the mass compared to the S4. When I first got the GTS i hit my favorite off ramp and was damn near as fast as my S4 which is highly modified for track days - Ohlins w/ 800/900 spring rates f/r. Clearly the over all weight and mass in the nose combined with 235 width tires limit the capability S4, but given the GTS weighs 1300 lbs more with a much higher center of gravity there's no way it should be close to the S4 in terms of static grip. I have also driven the back roads after a camping trip recently and while I am very much aware of the mass, I thoroughly enjoyed pushing the GTS in the twisties. Not the point and shoot level the S4 is capable of, but reasonably close with less risk of being tempted into hooligan level driving, which is what the track days are for.
2. Age of the S4
Wow has the GTS done a number on my preference for which vehicle to drive when walking out the door. I prefer driving the GTS over the S4 in daily driving situations. This is partly because I have modified the S4 too much for DD duty. The GTS allows me to be enthusiastic - the sport button rules! and yet just as quickly tone it down via deactivating the sport button. I am a huge fan of having damper settings - it's magnificent to hit some on/ off ramps and then just hit the comfort button for tooling through town with broken pavement. I love leaving it in comfort after activating the sport button so I can listen to the exhaust note snarl - appeals to my inner teenager.
Other key features over the S4 that I like. Heated steering wheel is really a pleasant surprise. Adaptive headlights w/ the bi-xenon option deliver cornering lamps which are perfect for dark streets at slow speeds; plus the xenon lights are very impressive. V8 warms up sooo much quicker than the 2.7 which is beneficial for cabin comfort as well as getting on it quicker if necessary.
3. Versatility
No surprise hear given the comparison is a sedan to a SUV, but I took the GTS on a road trip this summer to Idaho, Utah, Colorado and Nevada. The ability to have the car gilled w/ a mother-in-law box up top and 3 bikes handing off a rack in the back and feel incredibly stable at 100 mph blasting along back roads was an eye opener. Followed by going off road w/ damn near 10" of ground clearance when we hit the camp site.
The engine is a gem - very flexible yet strong. I frequently start off in 2nd gear if it's flat - which helps gas mileage. Yet if I step on it eh engine really pulls hard in the upper rpm. Plus, from 6th gear @ 75 to 100 was a lot faster than I anticipated - for reference my S4 has 480 lbs of torque and does very well in top gear.
Summary
It's time. You've already moved on mentally, you're just doing your due diligence to make sure you're not going to have a purchase hangover in 2 months. If I were in your shoes I'd go for it. After all, how much do you really utilize the sport aspects of the S4 vs the utility the GTS offers. Also, given how close the performance of the GTS to the S4, you're not really giving up much - other than gas mileage. On the other hand, maintenance should be a lot less given the miles on your S4.
Good luck!
I am good to go with the GTS. I would like to have the stick, but they are rare, and considerably more expensive than the autos. I suppose the wheel shifting buttons might provide some solace, though I have not heard that people actually use them. Bigger issue for me is whether to wait for a vehicle that has pdcc. Some say that it is absolutely indispensible. I have seen that Youtube vid that rahter dramatically shows the difference with Others suggest not and do without. Does your car have it, and is it a must have?
Appreciate you time. And so does my Porsche salesman.
David
12-09-2011, 11:58 AM
#43
First of all the manual-auto in the Cayenne is a pleasure to drive in manual mode. It does exactly what you tell it to do. It's programmed with a yaw sensor, so as soon as you flick it into a corner, even in auto mode, it will hold the gear until you change it or flatten out. T auto really works well in this rig when pushed.
Don't be shy of the auto. It's very nice to just leave it in "I'm tired and don't want to shift in this stop and go traffic mode"
PDCC is cool. But the car is way better than the S4 without it.
I test drove GTS and S just to make sure I was not missing a deal somewhere. They flat out are no comparison to driving the turbo. *My* impression was that the S and GTS were more "just a nice SUV " that handled well. The turbo takes on a whole new experience. Is not as simple as just a few extra horses.
Don't be shy of the auto. It's very nice to just leave it in "I'm tired and don't want to shift in this stop and go traffic mode"
PDCC is cool. But the car is way better than the S4 without it.
I test drove GTS and S just to make sure I was not missing a deal somewhere. They flat out are no comparison to driving the turbo. *My* impression was that the S and GTS were more "just a nice SUV " that handled well. The turbo takes on a whole new experience. Is not as simple as just a few extra horses.
12-09-2011, 12:30 PM
#44
Drifting
First of all the manual-auto in the Cayenne is a pleasure to drive in manual mode. It does exactly what you tell it to do. It's programmed with a yaw sensor, so as soon as you flick it into a corner, even in auto mode, it will hold the gear until you change it or flatten out. T auto really works well in this rig when pushed.
Don't be shy of the auto. It's very nice to just leave it in "I'm tired and don't want to shift in this stop and go traffic mode"
PDCC is cool. But the car is way better than the S4 without it.
I test drove GTS and S just to make sure I was not missing a deal somewhere. They flat out are no comparison to driving the turbo. *My* impression was that the S and GTS were more "just a nice SUV " that handled well. The turbo takes on a whole new experience. Is not as simple as just a few extra horses.
Don't be shy of the auto. It's very nice to just leave it in "I'm tired and don't want to shift in this stop and go traffic mode"
PDCC is cool. But the car is way better than the S4 without it.
I test drove GTS and S just to make sure I was not missing a deal somewhere. They flat out are no comparison to driving the turbo. *My* impression was that the S and GTS were more "just a nice SUV " that handled well. The turbo takes on a whole new experience. Is not as simple as just a few extra horses.
12-09-2011, 12:32 PM
#45
Seems you can order all the GTS sporty bits on the turbo with the exception of steel springs and manual transmission.
So if your turbo was missing the sport lowering module, or pdcc, or? That would certainly make up the difference. Tires, size, etc.