mudman2

Navteq, the supplier of the data is continuously updating and adding detail to their systems. Your data set on the DVD is about the same as the current CD set (3), that is late 2004 data.

Although you might not see this as your problem right now and I am sure PCNA will order new DVD's with updated information on them for then next couple of years, their attitude seems to be that it is no longer their responsibility after a certain period of time.

If they wish to keep replacing our hardware to match the current software for free I will support that, but they are trying to ignore that they supplied the NAV systems and they are responsible for making sure the updates WE have to buy from Navteq are available.

Can anyone spell class action ?

Kooser

[QUOTE=MadFox]MUDMAN to the rescue!! SUPER!

KOOSER -- might I suggest you post your first letter and/or your second letter.. I assume you have it in word or something.. or maybe BETTER.. you can email it to me and I'd be happy to "3rd party" look at it .. make sure we take the high road and then get the thing to everyone via this POST... PM me your email address or I'll PM you with my email address and we can use your letter and re-draft as a FORM LETTER... sound like a plan???

email me (kooser@hotmail.com) your email address and I will send you the two letters that I have alreadt sent to Georgia as a Word attachment. We can then come up with an acceptable version for a post and hoipefully people will run with it.

ltc

OK, let's assume for the time being that a set of updated discs, formatted for PCM2, exists at Navteq.

Now, who at PCNA is going to contact PAG, ask that the software be verified/validated and released as part of the standard software build/release process.
Secondly, who is going to pay for this activity at PAG? Is PCNA going to write a check to PAG?
Thirdly, is there anyone who is still supporting CD based V&V activity at PAG? Someone actually has to do the work.
Fourthly, what if there is an issue with the hypothetical discs/database? Who is going to pay Navteq to correct the flaw and restart the V&V process again?
Fifthly (yes, it's not a word), who assumes the legal/warranty liability once the discs are released to the publc? Navteq or PCNA?
Sixthly (I like the way these are sounding), when does this end? Suppose the updated discs STILL aren't up to people's standards/expectations? Return to zero and restart the process? Who are you going to complain to? If you are willing to buy something for $199 sight unseen, don't expect PCNA/Navteq to give you a refund.

And finally...........
It's all about profits. PCNA/PAG already have yours, why would you possibly think they would spend $$, just to keep previous customers running outdated platforms happy?
Want updated technology/latest and greatest, they'll be glad to have you purchase a new Cayenne and yours will become the necessary inventory to supply the CPO part of the business plan.

Try dealing with them directly (hint: letters are ignored; you need to use 'special letterhead') and you will quickly discover the nature of the business today.
Warning: only follow this path if you are sure that the outcome will not disappoint you once you discover the 'new' Porsche.

That having been said, I do enjoy the enthusiasm shown.
Kind of reminds me of salmon struggling to swim upstream, knowing in the end they'll die anyways.

Shamus

So my lawyer should write a letter about how I became emotionally scarred when trying to get to Kingston and ended up deep in the 'hood of Halifax?

ltc

Yes, as a matter of fact, I CAN spell class action. It is quite a bit of work to put one together.....and no, not cheap.

Please follow along with me:

1. Mr Mudman2, could you please tell the court the basis for a lawsuit, class action or individual status?
2. Mr Mudman2, could you please provide any documentation which would convince this court that PCNA in someway breached a contract or warranty?
3. Mr Mudman2, could you please tell us how long the initial warranty period for the navigation database in question was for?
4. Mr Mudman2, could you please produce a document which, at the time of purchase, stated how long PCNA/Navteq was REQUIRED to provide updates (free or for purchase)?
5. Mr Mudman2, could you please tell the court in what manner your current PAG/PCNA/Navteq system is malfunctioning/faulty/in need of update/repair?

Mr. Mudman, if you look behind you, you will find the door to the court, please do not allow it to hit you in the A$$ on the way out. Good day.

Yes, it's tough love, but don't jump into the deep end unless you've got swimmies.......you're going to be swimming with sharks.

An attorney with 50 years practicing experience (including arguing and winning before the US Supreme Court) has watched the way in which PCNA and their legal staff operate and is astonished.

mudman2

I see you chickened before seventhly which is some sort of cartoon caption in arabic !

I agree with all you said, its all true but if they are going to put a dynamic system based on removable discs like the rest of the car manufacturers then thsy should have gone the data only disc route or embedded.

Fact is they did not and now they are trying to snubb all the buyers of the PCMII system.

I am suprised we haven't heard of this before from the other groups. I will ask the question.

mudman2

OUCH

ltc

Hey, I said it was tough love.
Remember........Been There, Done That.

ltc

Snubbed?
Like how they 'snubbed' all the affected RMS owners?
You, step AWAY from the Purplesaurus Rex Kool Aid punch bowl.....time to sober up and see the real PCNA.

Kooser

Different hypothetical circumstance but some parallels can be drawn....

Imagine if Apple released OS 10.5, we will call it "Lion" (because it has always been some derivation of - Kingdom: Animalia, Phylum: Chordata, Class: Mammalia, Order: Carnivora, Family: Felidae....the cat family!).
Now that all Macs produced from '06 on will have an Intel core duo chip rather than a Motorola chip, what if Apple decided that their new operatiing system/software version - Lion should not run on any of the previous Apple motorola models. Also, subsequent software updates wouldn't work for "old" Macs either. Do you think that woud fly? No F'ing way.

Back to the world of Porsche
The CD based system originally had only 2 discs. A software update came out for the PCMII and a "new" set of 3 discs was released, they work. It all boils down to data. Data is data is data is data. What can be stored on DVD can also be stored on CD. If the new mapping data exceeds 3 CD capacity, they can add a fourth in the newer version. We are not talking about the need to change old platforms, just about supplying data that already exsists. Not even requiring any software format change only in the way the data is physically stored. The Nav head units will read CDs formatted properly from Navteq. This system is already in place and the operating system already exsists to use Navteq formatted CD navigational discs. So why not supply us with the discs if "we" are willing to purchase them for a premium?

Kooser

Another parallel:
The outlook should be...we are like little haploid cells, male gametes, spermatozoa (instead of salmon) swimming upstream, knowing that in the end all of us are going to die, except for that one, THE ONE, that will meet with the female gamete and create a zygote - which will grow into a baby (updated CDs!)

MadFox

FIRSTLY okay.. I'm drinking Kool-aid and going to differ with you because some adult additive is in it... deep breath... er.. I MEAN Seventhly.. I understand points 1-6... BUT, and it is a big BUT (and I like big buts (not butts), and I can't lie!! ).. there is one flaw in your argument about new or more correctly MORE data in the CD or DVD systems. You are arguing that they won't update the CD's because they are now at DVD's in our newer Cayennes. To carry that argument further, you would have to argue then that DVD's won't be updated either....that new Cayennes (that's another argument) with EWVD's (logical no? first c then d.. then d followed by vd.. thus next generation will be -- e then wvd).. that Porsche or NavTeq would require us all to migrate to EWVD's.. I don't think so! Also, oh great keeper of the Kool-Aid , I don't necessarily agree with the financial "problems" associated with this or the liability that results.. the CD's and DVD's didn't have all the data necessary or it wasn't structured correctly.. so, in this case, I think NavTeq is more than happy to release new CD's --- they just need to be sure that the PCM is still using the same operating system.. all PCNA has to do (maybe PAG) is approve the disk (maybe NavTeq does pay a fee for that) by stating that the CD's and DVD's are on the same operating system and thus they can make the profit and assume the liability.. If Porsche is on the same PCM operating system.. no cost to them and no change in Liability.. REALLY

as Jaques Clouseau would say..... "case solve--ED".

mudman2

blah blah blah.... lets get the letter out there, 39c is cheap.

MadFox

blah blah blah? hey.. just don't want people jumping because our fearless Kool-aid consumer made them think it is a big waste of time... oh, and another thing... you're quick.. you even knew it's up from 37c

mudman2