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I am considering ditching my 2017 VW GTI sport as my dd and getting a Cayenne. I'm particularly interested in a 957 GTS. I see many for sale with 100k+ miles on them and I'm wondering how much life these cats have left in them. What are maintenance costs like?
I've previously owned a 1986 944, which was costly to maintain and rarely functioned at 100%. Followed by a 2000 boxster, which was fairly expensive to maintain but otherwise reliable.
I got rid of the boxster because a GTI suited me better at the time. I was living on the east coast, but now I live in Utah where I ski a lot and live a very active lifestyle. Certain roads only allow 4wd cars at times. I would love an SUV that also has sports car characteristics, and a Cayenne seems to be the best option. I would drive it in remote locations with snow and dirt roads fairly often.
My thoughts are that you have been hanging out on Rennlist for a bit over 14 years and you are making a post with questions that have been answered at least 9 million times before. Seems a bit lazy to me. I bet that if you do a bit of googling most of those results will bring you back here to the previous 9 million threads where your questions have been answered. Thoughtful questions get thoughtful answers and if you put some effort in there is a great group of guys here that will be willing to jump right in with advice.
I bought my 08GTS 2 1/2 years ago with 128K miles. it has 168k now and I have spent painfully little on repairs. I had to replace a air bleeder valve on top of a rear strut. $45 and about an hour time. And I had water in the floorboard that corroded some wires causing multiple errors. That took about an hour to fix and zero dollars. There have been some other little things, but nothing major and definately nothing expensive. I am not sure if I am an anomaly, lucky or about right.
I am considering ditching my 2017 VW GTI sport as my dd and getting a Cayenne. I'm particularly interested in a 957 GTS. I see many for sale with 100k+ miles on them and I'm wondering how much life these cats have left in them. What are maintenance costs like?
I've previously owned a 1986 944, which was costly to maintain and rarely functioned at 100%. Followed by a 2000 boxster, which was fairly expensive to maintain but otherwise reliable.
I got rid of the boxster because a GTI suited me better at the time. I was living on the east coast, but now I live in Utah where I ski a lot and live a very active lifestyle. Certain roads only allow 4wd cars at times. I would love an SUV that also has sports car characteristics, and a Cayenne seems to be the best option. I would drive it in remote locations with snow and dirt roads fairly often.
Thoughts?
I live in the mountains of Utah part of the year. I own an 08 957 Turbo. I consider the GTS to have most of the attributes of the Turbo. I also owned an 89 944 Turbo S and did most of my maintenance and care of the car by purchasing the factory shop manuals. It is little harder to do this with the Cayenne (more digital/less analog systems as found on the 944 series). Here is my experience (I am new, so you would not have found these thoughts in a Google or a site search):
Pro's
+ The body style of the Cayenne is somewhat timeless. It does not look dated like most used cars. I continue to get compliments on my 10 year old Turbo.
+ The off road performance is excellent -- especially in snow/ice. Great traction control systems.
+ I don't really buy the whole concept of max service life. I flew a Cessna 421B with over 17,000 hours on it that was in far better condition than planes with less than 3,000 hours that were never flown.
+ I switch b/w summer and winter tires and it works for me. Only $25 a tire 2x per year to swap and I rotate them at that time. No big deal.
+ Most Cayenne's have "modern enough" tech. It works. Have not had any issues. Now there are upgraded head units available for about $2k installed that basically give you AirPlay capabilities in cabin.
+ Great car. Amazing price point for the performance.....BUT....
Con's
+ The Cayenne's get terrible gas mileage. The Turbo gets ridiculously poor gas mileage by today's standards. I personally don't care but there are reasons why they are called Pigs on this site and elsewhere.
+ They are expensive to maintain and you need to find one with an excellent service history.
+ You need to have a professional PPI done on any car before buying. There are tons of examples out there so no need to not do your diligence.
+ You need to read the sticky about known issues above. There are 5+ major known service issues. You want to find a car either not exhibiting these issues or they have already been rectified at the prior owner's expense.
Want to spend $20-35k and get an exceptional GTS with some service cost risk? Awesome. Go for it.
If not, spend an extra $10-15k and get a new german SUV with pretty much no risk. In other words, buy a new Q5. You get none of the excitement but plenty of peace of mind.
The 957 generation to me is the best series for the Cayenne and why when buying one in 2016, I specifically sought out an 09 Turbo S. Wanted the 09 for the slightly updated touchscreen PCM3 interface since I didn't plan to upgrade it and the DFI motor (on all 957s). I also think the bodywork on the GTS and Turbo S is the best looking, even though I augmented mine a bit. The driving however is not the same, and why I ended up with the TTS. The extra 150 HP (250 on mine now) and standard PDCC for the handling (was optional on a GTS but is hard to find) is certainly very easy to feel, but the power delivery is different between the NA GTS and the forced induction Turbos. I was originally looking for a manual transmission GTS but after driving both, knew which one I had to have. Don't get me wrong, the GTS is super, and if you want peppy and don't need "holy s**T", it's a great choice.
From a maintenance perspective, you have to remember that these were $100-$150k cars when new and the parts costs reflect that, but having owned Porsches before, as you have, that's not new info to you.
I absolutely love mine and expect it to last me a very long time as it currently only has about 32,000 miles on it and I expect to take it past 200,000 at about 5-7k miles per year.
For an even sportier drive, but with less utility, the Macan GTS or Turbo is like a sports car SUV, but in a completely different league price wise than a 957 GTS and not nearly as roomy inside, but might be worth a look if within your budget.
Our Cayenne is our family trip vehicle and works perfectly - shorter trips with normal luggage, the 4 of us fit fine. For longer trips or with more gear (beach, golf, skiing, etc) I throw the color-matched Yakima Skybox on top.
I think the general answer is, don't own out of warranty Porsche, Mercedes, BMW unless you LOVE the car. If you love the car, you won't be angry when stuff breaks, you'll be fixing up a loved one. If keeping costs low is a priority, (nothing wrong with that!), we had a Toyota Rav4 we couldn't punish enough. No car washes ever. Oil was the only fluid we ever changed. Ever. Pads, tires, oil, drive.
My only gripe with my 2008 V8 is that the mileage is absolutely horrible and it gets expensive constantly fueling it. My VW Sportwagen TDi gets 44MPG HWY /34 Mixed and that was after it was neutered. Used to get 49 MPG HWY. Now I’m at the gas station every week with the 957, spending about $75 per fill and $300/mo versus $60/mo. A $3,600 annual fuel bill (versus $720) is, at least on my budget, excessive. Ten year fuel costs at current rate is $36,000. Will I get that kind of enjoyment over 10 years? Really doubt it. Then figure about $2000/year on maintenance and repairs. Over ten years, the figure grows to a whopping $67,000. And what will a Cayenne be worth in ten years? Maybe a twin turbo would deliver the absolute performance that would provide value, but at an even higher price premium (worse MPG). Is owning one a rational decision? This is not unless you have money to burn. Might be something worth considering unless this purchase will be a second or third car.
Have a 2018 Macan service loaner, and not only does it go like stink, it is way more comfortable and weighs far less than my Cayenne but only gets 3-5 MPG better HWY/City. You would think in 10 years there would be a leap in MPG. Go figure.
good luck with your decision, I know I am reconsidering mine unless it becomes a second car for skiing and reaching trail heads, keeping the mileage and repair expense way down.
My only gripe with my 2008 V8 is that the mileage is absolutely horrible and it gets expensive constantly fueling it. My VW Sportwagen TDi gets 44MPG HWY /34 Mixed and that was after it was neutered. Used to get 49 MPG HWY. Now I’m at the gas station every week with the 957, spending about $75 per fill and $300/mo versus $60/mo. A $3,600 annual fuel bill (versus $720) is, at least on my budget, excessive. Ten year fuel costs at current rate is $36,000. Will I get that kind of enjoyment over 10 years? Really doubt it. Then figure about $2000/year on maintenance and repairs. Over ten years, the figure grows to a whopping $67,000. And what will a Cayenne be worth in ten years? Maybe a twin turbo would deliver the absolute performance that would provide value, but at an even higher price premium (worse MPG). Is owning one a rational decision? This is not unless you have money to burn. Might be something worth considering unless this purchase will be a second or third car.
Have a 2018 Macan service loaner, and not only does it go like stink, it is way more comfortable and weighs far less than my Cayenne but only gets 3-5 MPG better HWY/City. You would think in 10 years there would be a leap in MPG. Go figure.
good luck with your decision, I know I am reconsidering mine unless it becomes a second car for skiing and reaching trail heads, keeping the mileage and repair expense way down.
This is an extremely accurate post.
I use the 08 Turbo as a second car at a ski cabin. Is the turbo rush worth the 9 - 11 MPG in town and extra $$$ each year in maintenance? It is to me as a second car. However, I cannot imagine this car as your daily driver if your commute was 35-40 miles each day and if most of that was on surface streets.
My only gripe with my 2008 V8 is that the mileage is absolutely horrible and it gets expensive constantly fueling it. My VW Sportwagen TDi gets 44MPG HWY /34 Mixed and that was after it was neutered. Used to get 49 MPG HWY. Now I’m at the gas station every week with the 957, spending about $75 per fill and $300/mo versus $60/mo. A $3,600 annual fuel bill (versus $720) is, at least on my budget, excessive. Ten year fuel costs at current rate is $36,000. Will I get that kind of enjoyment over 10 years? Really doubt it. Then figure about $2000/year on maintenance and repairs. Over ten years, the figure grows to a whopping $67,000. And what will a Cayenne be worth in ten years? Maybe a twin turbo would deliver the absolute performance that would provide value, but at an even higher price premium (worse MPG). Is owning one a rational decision? This is not unless you have money to burn. Might be something worth considering unless this purchase will be a second or third car.
Have a 2018 Macan service loaner, and not only does it go like stink, it is way more comfortable and weighs far less than my Cayenne but only gets 3-5 MPG better HWY/City. You would think in 10 years there would be a leap in MPG. Go figure.
good luck with your decision, I know I am reconsidering mine unless it becomes a second car for skiing and reaching trail heads, keeping the mileage and repair expense way down.
you use the Porsche dealer for repairs and maintenance? $2k a year is a lot. My neighbor has an 09 Turbo. before I bought my GTS he said he has spent $2500 in repairs (that includes new tires) in the last 4 years. he drives 20 miles one way to work every day.
I work from home and usually only put 5k miles a year on my cars. getting 14mpg in my 08 GTS right now. 2mpg less than my 2015 v6 Grand cherokee.
My modified Turbo S averages 13.6 MPG on the 3 family vacation trips we've taken so far, and that's fully loaded with people, luggage, and the Skybox installed, running with the cruise set at about 84 MPH most of the time. I haven't done a long highway trip without the Skybox so don't know what those #s look like yet, but with 650 HP on-tap, I'd still drive it even if it got 10 MPG, as it's just awesome.
At 13.6, it gets better mileage than my DD GMC Sierra pickup (12.9) and much better mileage than my supercharged 928 (under 10 MPG). The 99726 Ms do better with the supercharged one at about 22 MPG and my wife's C2S at around 26 MPG.
I'm perfectly content with a $75 fill-up every 350 miles or so, in exchange for the smiles provided, but I also live where gas is under $2.50/gallon for premium currently.
you use the Porsche dealer for repairs and maintenance? $2k a year is a lot. My neighbor has an 09 Turbo. before I bought my GTS he said he has spent $2500 in repairs (that includes new tires) in the last 4 years. he drives 20 miles one way to work every day.
I work from home and usually only put 5k miles a year on my cars. getting 14mpg in my 08 GTS right now. 2mpg less than my 2015 v6 Grand cherokee.
You “assume” I use the stealer for repairs but that is far from the case since I do what I can at home or using an indy. None of my Porsches go to the dealer for repair, however to get a second key and get it programmed I found no other choice. I won’t even go into how they f’d up twice but I have to give them credit, they are not charging me for the fob, key cutting or programming and they will come and pick the loaner when returning the car to me. They even said don’t worry about the gas used in the loaner. When has any one piece of the above happened to most people?
A second point I find interesting is how people rationalize something bad saying, well it could be even worse when there are far better alternatives. If there weren’t better alternatives, then I could understand this reasoning. We all have our own way of rationalizing decisions. To be honest, I rationalized my decision to purchase a Cayenne and no doubt should have worked the numbers better. The annual repairs I can easily handle but the fuel cost over several years I overlooked and am pissed at myself. I Could sell one of my air cooled cars and pay the gas bill for years, but that is missing the point.
Assumptions can be dangerous without the facts, luckily there was no danger found here. Have a good one.
And sorry about hijacking the thread but the OP might learn something from my lack of due diligence.
You “assume” I use the stealer for repairs but that is far from the case since I do what I can at home or using an indy. None of my Porsches go to the dealer for repair, however to get a second key and get it programmed I found no other choice. I won’t even go into how they f’d up twice but I have to give them credit, they are not charging me for the fob, key cutting or programming and they will come and pick the loaner when returning the car to me. They even said don’t worry about the gas used in the loaner. When has any one piece of the above happened to most people?
Assumptions can be dangerous without the facts, luckily there was no danger found here. Have a good one.
I think you took that the wrong way. I get why you would go there for your key issue and I have done the same for other cars I’ve owned.
These cars consume tires, oil, brakes, and fuel like few others if you drive them in a spirited manner. They have many commonly documented issues that can leave you stranded and be a big pain the ***. Here are three from a long list.
Example 1. The steering column lock fails and will brick the car at some point when you go to start it. This will either be a tow to the dealer and $4k repair for them to replace the whole steering column or weeks of downtime to fix the relays or hall sensors in the module.
Example 2. The cars are known for having many ways for water to fill the floorboards under the driver and passenger seats. You will not know there is an issue until poorly made wiring joints begin corroding and lighting up your dash like a christmas tree. Get out your soldering iron or sex lube of choice before you tow it to the stealership.
Example 3. Borescoring on V8s. You are in a cold climate. Do your research on this.
Example 4. Just like any other car above 100k miles there are many components that have been operating on the car that do not owe you much more service life. These cars can be a major pain to work on. Changing out many parts can be mind bendingly complicated and expensive. Please search for threads on alternator replacements. All who have done it have agreed it is not a chore they wish to do again. It requires a minimum of 20 hours labor and requires removal of: both front wheels, fender liners, headlights, the front bumper, unhooking the radiator and putting the car in lockmount service position, etc. My alternator swap cost around $2k as a DIY project after replacing other parts while I was in there like some pulleys, the belt, seals, etc. Do not underestimate the cost of just the parts which are growing higher every year. A new wiper arm is $150, the rear hatch struts which you will need to replace every 3 years are in the hundreds, etc.
Example 5. Beware of pano roofs on 957's. Nobody out there is going to fix it for you. They will be happy to swap a whole new unit in for 10-12k, though.
Happy long term 955/957 ownership requires the following:
0. REALLY loving and enjoying driving the car so that you are less pissed when it breaks.
1. A second car to drive when you are waiting for parts during a repair.
2. A large toolset, experience, time and moderate amounts of money to DIY or lots of money to have the dealer do everything.
3. Willingness to periodically part ways with $1-2k of cash at the drop of a hat and not worry about the costs.
This is a Volkswagen, but it is not your average VW!
A second point I find interesting is how people rationalize something bad saying, well it could be even worse when there are far better alternatives.
Are you mainly talking about gas mileage? If so, what similar size 5000 lb 4X4 SUV is exceptionally better?
My '04 S has never gone below 16.7 combined city/highway (and I live for jackrabbit starts). The Olds Bravada I used to own never got more than 15 mpg and that was a 190 hp V6.
A new Ford Explorer turbo V6 is 18 mpg...Durango V8 is 17.6...Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 15.7. Keep in mind these are brand new '19 models that aren't doing much better than a previous generation Cayenne. Also, a new Cayenne GTS is rated higher than any of them at 19.1.
Your GTI is on the steep slope of depreciation so if you're thinking of swapping out for a GTS, you may not get all that you expect out of your sale or trade value. Having said that, if you could keep the GTI as your dd and use the GTS as your weekend getaway snow, mud, Costco, Home Depot vehicle, that would be a great compliment of two very capable vehicles.
Are they reliable? Lots of threads on this. My data point. Purchased a 100+K mile vehicle 6 years ago (now at 198K) and perhaps since it was well cared for, the P!G has been pretty reliable with only a handful of repairs. (I've spent less on repair compared to my kid's MINI R53 which is a similar vintage of vehicle and also with similar mileage.) I did upgrade the radio to a Pioneer CarPlay unit and that has really improved the usability of audio, nav, and general modernizing.
Keep up on maintenance and costs by doing as much as you can yourself. It's not a hard car to work on. Well, except for the alternator. Yow! That was a PIA!
01-10-2019, 09:00 PM
957 GTS lifespan
