jeff spahn

I just got my black stone report back. Good news I'd say

hahnmgh63

Looks good. Phosphorus & Zinc levels are still decent which shows with the remaining TBN. Mobil 1 0w-40 that many choose to use looks terrible on a 10k oil change.

Pillow

Very nice results Jeff! Well played at that mileage w/o wasting oil in its youth What line is the Amsoil? Signature series?

FWIW M1 European Formula <> M1 normal oil. Is there data between the two on a 10k interval?

To add, all my junk runs M1 normal swill to around ~200k with 10k changes and we haven't had any oil related engine issues. Synthetic oil just works! (any good brand should be fine IMO)

BUT with Amazon Basics coming out with European Formula 0W-40, well that is a game changer!!!
Who's going first?

jeff spahn

Honestly I don't know what series oil it is. My business partner in real estate sells the stuff so I just told him to get me the best AmsOil he sells. Figure I'd give the business to a partner.
I don't have any data between the two sorry.
I also run Ceratec in the oil as well.

I also was contacted by a member regarding having my information on the address line. As I relayed to the member I truly appreciate the RL community watching out for that stuff. I don't worry about the information going out there. It's a business address that I only use for deliveries and no ties to credit or anything else.

Petza914

Jeff,

Don't take this the wrong way, but I have a differing opinion on what's shown in this UOA. I too use Blackstone for my analysis, but you need to learn to ignore the text and commentary and to just interpret the quantitative #s they provide - they're comments are always far to positive in my opinion and they sometimes make recommendations to extend the oil change intervals that actually contradict what's shown in the reports.

11,000 miles is twice too long to run that oil in the motor. The previous report at 5,000 miles is better than this one, but still exhibits issues in the numbers too. This is the second case where I've looked at a UOA report with Amsoil oil and observed poorer results than what I was expecting, especially with respect to metal wear. The other was in a 911 from the 997 forum. (edit / correction - it was a Swepco 15W/40 in the other thread, not Amsoil - https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1115408-head-to-head-oil-report-motul-vs-swepco-vs-pentosin.html#post15483236​​​​​​)

1. I do not like to see double digit metal wear numbers in any oil report and this one has iron in the mid-30s. Should be no higher than 10 or 12 really.
2. Also, this particular oil does not have enough Zinc or Phosphorous remaining to adequately protect the valve train. You want numbers in the 1,000 to 1,200 ppm for both of those. If you want a Porsche A40 approved oil then switch to Motul 8100 xcess which has a little more of these components, or to JGR DT40, but that one is not Porsche A40 approved if you're worried about that.
3. Your TBN (Total Base Number) at 1.7 is also very low, which means the TAN (Total Acid Number) would be very high had you opted to pay the extra $10 to have them run that additional test. You don't want to run an oil really much beyond where the TAN and TBN are equal, which happens around a value of 5. Once the TAN exceeds the TBN, the oil is more acidic than basic, which is not good for the metals inside the engine.
4. Flashpoint is also a little low with traces of fuel. If you're letting the car warm up on cold mornings in the enrichment mode that heats the cats, that's likely the cause. This is not good for the motor as the extra fuel can wash the oil lubrication from the cylinder walls and may be a contributor to the higher metal wear #s.
5. Surprisingly, the viscosity isn't that bad for 11,000 miles - that's usually one of the first things that drops as the additive package in the oil starts to break down.
6. As Blackstone mentioned, your Silicon is on the higher side too - this is dirt in the oil. This reading can also be thrown off artificially high if you recently resealed something that comes in contact with the motor oil, like an oil pan. If not, you may have a vacuum leak somewhere allowing unfiltered air into the motor that's getting captured by the oil, or it may be time to replace your air filters. If you're running a CAI instead of an airbox, add a hydrophobic pre-filter around the air filter to prevent the oiled gauze from becoming saturated with water when driving in the rain, which can compromise it's filtering ability.

My personal recommendation is to change oil brands and limit the oil change interval to 5,000 miles if you want to be able to continue to build on the impression 191k you have on her already.

Below is one of the UOA from one of my 997s that I grabbed. Based on the items I detailed above, compare the numbers in these reports to yours and you'll have an example of what an excellent UOA looks like.

jeff spahn

I only running half of the recommended change intervalI. I changed the intake cover gaskets as well as a number of intake hoses at the same time I did my last oil change and also had the intake off. (New starter) That could account for the dirt. I don't run anything other than the factory air filter. Comes from the days of my 928 and K&N filters destroying MAF sensors.
I'll check the air filter.
I don't let the car warm up more than the time it takes to get me belt on and get settled. Car lives in a heated / cooled garage year round. Generally drives are either 2 miles or 1000 miles. Meaning either from home to office or home to vail. There are many more home to office trips than home to vail trips on a per day run.
I switched to penzoil full synthetic this time as partner was on vacation. I do add both a zddp additive and ceratec to the oil at the change. I did that with the sampled oil too.

Pillow

Update to eat my words... Although you can still find M1 European Formula it may be old as that product has been discoed from Mobil1.
https://www.christopherprice.net/mob...1-fs-3460.html

Also, you will see on the M1 webpage that M1 FS 0W-40 now complies with Porsche A40 factory fill standards.
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/m.../mobil-1#0W-40

Since the M1 FS has been updated in "formulation" it may be worth revisiting the new M1 product for oil analysis comparison. But per Porsche, this should be good for the 10,000 mile interval for service.

The CS is at 89k now... I'll fill w M1 FS 0W-40 at 90k and keep on the 10k or 1 year change interval and report back when the engine grenades... This may take a long time as I work from home and therefore under 10k a year.

Pillow

Please post back those results as well for comparison. FWIW I'll perform analysis on the M1 when that time comes as well. For both, I know be patient.

Petza914

No one will ever convince me that running an oil for 10,000 miles is prudent for the longevity of a motor. You can see viscosity breakdown begin after 5,000 miles and all the combustion contaminants get captured in the oil.

The only reason manufacturers are talking about 10,000 mile or higher change intervals is because consumers don't want to deal with car service time and associated cost, and if one manufacturer says you can go 10k miles between changes, others follow suit to not be at a disadvantage. What's the downside for the manufacturer? You wear out your motor sooner and need to pay them to repair it or pay them to buy a newer car earlier, so there isn't really a downside for them, just for us. None of them offer a warranty beyond 100k miles and at 10k mile change intervals any modern engine will likely make it to that, after which point, they don't care anymore. Also, if it's a manufacturer that includes the cost of service (oil changes, etc) in their consumer plan or lease terms, it costs them half as much while the original owner has the vehicle, another win for them.

I plan to keep my vehicles for as long as I can as I really don't like the new ones with all the electronics and driver aids so if it costs me a few hundred dollars in oil and filters to give them the best shot at living up to my expectations, I'm OK with that.

If it's a lease or a car you don't care about (Camry, Accord, etc) then it doesn't matter, but these are Porsches - high performance, tight tolerance, expensive machines, that deserve proper care, which is a 5,000 mile max oil change interval.

jeff spahn

I'll run this one to 5000 and see what I see.

Petza914

Good plan. I'll be interested to compare the two. Have Blackstone add the TAN analysis on this next one too.

jeff spahn

Ok. Thanks for the info. I didn't know about that. I'll continue to add zddp and ceratec. Been doing that for 70,000 (35,000 boosted) miles on my 928 and it runs great.

oldskewel

Completely agreed.

Very often the specs coming from manufacturers are based on marketing rather than science. It was worse 20 years ago when all the manufacturers were specifying 15k mile oil change intervals, while all the oil brands and services were shaming you if you went past 3k. Pay me now or pay me later. Obviously they can't both be right. Obviously their messages are influenced by business reasons. So to be safe, I lean to the 3-5k end of the range there.

Doing it myself at those short intervals, it really does not cost much, but I'll admit it is more based on distrust of all the advice rather than belief in any of it. (and BTW, I am [was] a scientist+engineer, Ph.D., believing in physics, etc. but knowing how it can be done wrong).

A similar but different example is with lifetime ATF. I know BMW at least used to claim their ATF was lifetime and never needed replacing. What they really meant was that it could go 100k miles before the AT failed, at which point it was certainly no longer owned by the person BMW sold the car to. That's probably true, but it resulted in many failures past 100k, often triggered by the first ever ATF change at high mileage. Steady 40-60k mile intervals seem to be accepted as good and not overkill in that case.

oldskewel

Wow. Thanks for posting that. Since I thought I was using M1 0W-40 European Formula (that's what it says on the bottles), I'll apparently need to go out to the garage with a magnifying glass to examine my stockpile for authenticity.

Here's a quote from that link:
"It is being replaced with a new blend, Mobil 1 FS that is similar in spec, but very different.

The new Mobil 1 “FS” has the same packaging, and the same European Car Formula decals on the packaging. But it isn’t the same. It’s a new formula that is designated by the super-small “FS” on the front and back of the packaging."

WHAT?!?!?!