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Main Question:
I find myself in a bit of a quandary. The wife and I have pretty much decided that our next vehicle is going to be a Cayenne (ultimately replacing a 2000 Toyota 4Runner Limited) and I'm trying to determine what the right level is of holding out for the right vehicle. We made this decision about six months ago and since then I've seen several vehicles come up for listing and then be sold, and as I watch the listings I keep finding features I want to hold out for. Originally I was just looking for a 2005-2009 Turbo with black exterior and black or tan leather, then I noticed I really preferred wood grain interior accents, shortly after my wife realized she really wanted black leather. So now I'm down to '05-'09 Cayenne Turbos with Black exterior, Black leather interior, and wood accents.
The straw on the camel's back was the introduction of the Turbo S into the mix. Someone had listed an '06 Turbo S for $19k in black on black (never saw the interior trim though). Our budget is about $18k but really want to be under $15k, so I started to research. It also had a panoramic sunroof that I quite liked. So now I've basically narrowed down to a Black on Black Turbo S with Woodgrain and Panoramic Sunroof (basically this car only in black). My question is, have I gone too far and picked an impossible car to find? Are the things I'm looking for really worth it? Should I be looking for an '08-09 Turbo over the '06 Turbo S?
Background:
In case anyone's interested, the factors that lead to our decision to go with a Cayenne are a bit conflicted. I am not personally a fan of the looks, I want my SUVs to look utilitarian and boxy (I'm a fan of the Discovery Series II, FJ80 Land Cruiser/LX 450, etc.). I'm also not particularly happy about the inability to add mud-terrain or even really all-terrain tires. My wife on the other hand couldn't care less about the Porsche badge or the luxury of features like leather and the sunroof. On the other hand, I like the utilitarian look of those boxy SUVs because of their engineering and the Cayenne is an engineering masterpiece.
I waited and shopped for 2 years before finding the right 4Runner because I held out for a '99 or '00 Limited specifically for the multi-mode transmission (lets you be RWD for better fuel economy on dry roads, AWD for bad weather and snow at highway speeds, and I can lock both the center and rear diffs). The Cayenne despite all it's on-road poise has the guts to handle bad weather and even off-road. It's also been very rare that I've actually taken the 4Runner off-road, it's worst missions have been some long distance trips in blizzards (which it does quite well). The 4Runner is sluggish on-road, not the worst car for passing on the highway I've ever driven but it's much closer to the bottom of that list than the top. My wife hates the sluggishness more than I do, her biggest driving factor in a replacement is power and poise on-road. Of course she doesn't care about having an SUV at all and wants me to replace her '00 9-3 Viggen with an '05 STi... all in due time.
My other driving factor to the Cayenne is that I'm sick of cut-rate luxury interiors. The 4Runner doesn't have heated seats, the steering wheel is worn, the leather has a crack in the side of the driver's seat. I care for my cars, but I also buy used cars that are 10+ years old. Whether it's because of better ownership with previous owners or because of better build quality and materials, Cayenne interiors rarely show the wear I'd expect from other vehicles (and I wouldn't buy one if it had it). I also really want a more modern feature set, panoramic sunroof, heated seats, multi-zone climate control, good audio, backup camera, Bluetooth, and navigation. For those last two or three, I realize I'll have to upgrade the head unit, but I'd rather do that anyway to have Waze, Google Maps, and Android phone integration vs built in GPS.
I should also add that if I wanted to buy right now, my options would be:
'05 Turbo Black on Black with Olive (Light) Woodgrain Trim, 131k mi, no rear heated seats, standard moonroof, a bit of wear on the steering wheel buttons (white plastic showing through) - $9000 private sale
'08 Turbo Black on Black with Aluminum Trim, 128k mi, no rear heated seats, panoramic moonroof, no visible wear - $19500 dealer
'05 Turbo S Titanium on Black with Walnut (Dark) Woodgrain Trim, 80k mi, unknown rear heated seats, panoramic moonroof, no visible wear - Currently at $13500 on eBay with less than a day left but I'd guess it'll go for $15-19k
I'm tempted to just go for the $9k one based on price, but I keep my vehicles for a good long while (5-10 years) and I can't help but think that the compromise of Turbo vs Turbo S and less features will get to me. Plus, I really can't get over the wear on the steering wheel buttons. Similarly the eBay Turbo S with low mileage (my target range being 90-130k mi) seems to have all the features, but ever since I bought an orange truck I've realllllly wanted to go back to owning all black vehicles... even though the titanium color is good looking. I also can't quite get over the idea of buying a vehicle sight-unseen, plus add in the expense and time to fly out and drive back.
I believe all Cayenne turbos should have heated front and rear seats if that is a concern for you.
Do you have a large tool chest in your garage and a lift or mind paying $2-4k to a dealer every time you take it in? If not I would recommend a base model with the v6. They are much, much more reliable. Also, read up on the pano roof. You may still want one, but there are some horror stories. A turbo Cayenne is not going to be the same service experience of a toyota.
It sounds like you are quite cost conscious, so I am trying to help you out. Look up the price of Turbo S brakes or replacement intercoolers, etc. before you take the plunge into one of them.
Definitely do not buy one of these vehicles sight unseen on ebay, especially if you are new to them. You need to do a thorough inspection and likely a PPI. If you are buying a 955 expect to drop $2-3k in parts and fluids just to get it baselined and address odds and ends even if it seems perfect.
To prepare for expenses after buying a used vehicle is common good advice. Not particularly bothered by it. Turbo S parts are indeed quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for quality and performance. From what I've read and from my understanding of the engineering, even the V8 is extremely reliable.
No, it's not going to be as cheap or easy to fix as a Toyota, but it's far from my first vehicle with pricey repairs. Still, appreciate the forewarning.
I don't buy used cars out of price consciousness, I buy used cars primarily because I'd prefer my money go to people I know (i.e. my mechanics) than to an organization that primarily profits and benefits people half a world away. I also get to indulge my love for cars by buying more unique, interesting, and nicer vehicles than otherwise. If I bought new, I'd probably have a Subaru Impreza, Outback, or a Volvo XC. Those are solid cars, but I'd rather own something that gives me "the fizz", even if it is older.
But I do own an 06 CTTS and an 08 CTT. Look up my threads... I love the cars but I'm probably lucky I'm not really keeping a count on how much has been "invested" into them in repairs and mods.
Even regular maintenance isn't cheap, believe me. And the gas mileage, or lack thereof, puts also a nice dent into one's pocket, especially paying $7.76 per gallon here in the EU.
That being said, I'd chose the 06 TTS over 08 CTT in a hearbeat.
Best bet on the PanoRoof.. on a 955/957 - if it's closed correctly, remove all fuses associated with it. That's cost-effective. You can still look out of it.
We use our Pano roof all the time - it's awesome. Keep the mechanisms lubricated and the seals treated. If something happens to it, I'll drop in a new one, even though the cost would be $5k.
Don't think that because you're buying a $9-$19k car that your service costs will be anywhere near what they were on the 4-Runner you're coming out of. With a Cayenne Turbo, you're still maintaining a $150,000 car even though you didn't pay that for it.
If the goal is to get a quality interior and passing power for the wife, you're in the right place, but you'll need a Turbo or a GTS (like you're looking at, not a base with V6 or even an S).
Don't worry about the interior trim if you find one with the rest of what you want - I can get you in touch with the guy I bought my dark wood complete interior trim kit from. It was $1,500 but I sold off the OEM CF it came with and recovered about half of that). Fits perfectly and is excellent quality - added the matching wood steering wheel later and it was a steal off of eBay or a Forum ad.
I also agree with you that Black is absolutely the best looking and wearing interior color. Lucked into the plush leather seating option on mine too - it's an 09 Turbo S
We use our Pano roof all the time - it's awesome. Keep the mechanisms lubricated and the seals treated. If something happens to it, I'll drop in a new one, even though the cost would be $5k.
Don't think that because you're buying a $9-$19k car that your service costs will be anywhere near what they were on the 4-Runner you're coming out of. With a Cayenne Turbo, you're still maintaining a $150,000 car even though you didn't pay that for it.
If the goal is to get a quality interior and passing power for the wife, you're in the right place, but you'll need a Turbo or a GTS (like you're looking at, not a base with V6 or even an S).
Don't worry about the interior trim if you find one with the rest of what you want - I can get you in touch with the guy I bought my dark wood complete interior trim kit from. It was $1,500 but I sold off the OEM CF it came with and recovered about half of that). Fits perfectly and is excellent quality - added the matching wood steering wheel later and it was a steal off of eBay or a Forum ad.
I also agree with you that Black is absolutely the best looking and wearing interior color. Lucked into the plush leather seating option on mine too - it's an 09 Turbo S
Glad to hear the perspective on the panoramic sunroof. I've been reading threads and it does seem that there's a relatively even divide of it's value as an aesthetic feature as well as the benefit of added headroom. With that said, the consensus seems to be that its benefits do not extend to ventilation and that the best approach is to simply never open it. Is that your finding as well? I live where the winters are cold and the summers are hot, is the added aesthetic value offset by thermal properties, or can the climate control keep up (let's say -30°F on a cold winter's night to 100°F on a hot summer's day).
That's a good thought about the trim, although I had looked into it and it seemed the trim pieces/kit is rather rare. Would you say that it's reasonable to expect the ability to exchange for dark walnut from light olive or aluminum for within $1000? $800? I also must say that is an exceptionally gorgeous interior.
As to costs, this is not a blocker or a surprise to me. It's the cost of having a Porsche, that is built and engineered well and has amazing capabilities, vs. a Chevy that gets you from point A to B and can be fixed with a sledgehammer. I didn't buy the Toyota because it was cheap to fix, I bought it because it's engineered capabilities were unique and robust. Sure, being cheap to fix was nice, but not the driving factor for me to buy. I am also deeply accustomed to expensive vehicles to fix, all though part of that is due to my commitment to keep vehicles that I deem to be a testament to engineering alive when perhaps I should move on. I'm sure that any Porsche will bring a shock factor with the price of parts and individual fixes, but I suspect (read:hope) that the fixes will be farther between than other vehicles I've had. Saabs, however much I might love them, are not exactly known for reliability or cheap fixes, and my Dodge's Cummins motor might be near bulletproof, but keeping a '96 on the road in the Northeast (read:salt) after 22 years is a constant battle and the rest of the truck is far from it.
It will have similar reliability to a Saab or a Volvo, but there are twice as many gizmos to break. The parts will be about double the cost of those makes and often 3-5 times that of the comparable American car part. Often times if you do your homework you can get them at normal european car prices if you can find a VW or Audi part number that cross references.
Glad to hear the perspective on the panoramic sunroof. I've been reading threads and it does seem that there's a relatively even divide of it's value as an aesthetic feature as well as the benefit of added headroom. With that said, the consensus seems to be that its benefits do not extend to ventilation and that the best approach is to simply never open it. Is that your finding as well? I live where the winters are cold and the summers are hot, is the added aesthetic value offset by thermal properties, or can the climate control keep up (let's say -30°F on a cold winter's night to 100°F on a hot summer's day).
That's a good thought about the trim, although I had looked into it and it seemed the trim pieces/kit is rather rare. Would you say that it's reasonable to expect the ability to exchange for dark walnut from light olive or aluminum for within $1000? $800? I also must say that is an exceptionally gorgeous interior.
Just yesterday I had all 4 windows open and the roof fully open - it's like being in a convertible SUV and the rarity of that is probably part of the attraction, but it is both loud and windy if used that way - and usually loud if used in any open configuration, of which there are quite a few on the "select-a-roof" ****, but I have both a boat with through-hull exhausts and a supercharged 928 convertible without any cats and an aftermarket, muffler, so I don't mind loud and windy - others might never open it and just run the A/C. It also has a power shade that covers the entire glass roof, which helps it stay cooler in the summer if the roof is closed anyway. You won't have any trouble getting adequate heating or cooling with the Pano roof and you could also have a tint ship apply an almost clear ceramic tint to the inside of the glass panels if you wanted to block even more heat without affecting the visibility through it. One other advantage to the Pano roof is no sagging headliner when the headliner foam or adhesive breaks down after 10 years (coming from the Saabs, you know what I'm talking about - we had 6 of them over the years with my last being a 90 SPG that my Dad still drives today) because the amount of headliner on the roof is a foot or less around all sides,
Changing the aluminum trim not so much - it's the base trim and not worth a lot, but if you find one with either the CF trim or one of the woods, there's a market for those once removed if in good condition. I love CF myself and have it in my 997, but the wife likes the dark wood luxury interior look so that was a concession to her for all the other mods I was doing to this thing on the body & performance fronts, as the outside looks like this - even painted our Yakima Skybox top to match and made custom mounts for it so the Pano roof can be used with the Skybox installed.
OP, if you've decided to get a Cayenne, someone just listed a brand new dark wood steering wheel in the Marketplace fur about a 1/3rd the cost new - might want to ****** it up for whatever car you buy.
What’s not to love!
I’ve had my ‘06 Turbo S, Titanium/black, for 2+yrs and 18k miles. Car has 140k miles and is, quite simply, the best looking Cayenne ever made. The brakes are very pricey, but are phenomenal. Remember that this was the fastest SUV on the planet for a number of years and only 600 of the 1500 made it to North America. I have a great example that has a nearly mint interior. 90% of the maintenance or repairs I can do myself (Durametric a must for any Porsche owner). The Pig has been very reliable and my kids and the neighbor kids love when it’s our turn to take them to school. Sure, it ain’t a Camry...it’s a Porsche! This is one of the most crazy luxurious vehicles to ever grace the pavement...or the dirt...or the sand.
05-02-2018, 11:37 AM
'05 Turbo vs '08 Turbo vs '06 Turbo S
