ARH

Hi, good folks!

I'm looking at a 2004 Cayenne S and a 2003 Cayenne Turbo, both at/close to the the holy 200k mark (125k miles).

I actually prefer the aesthetics of the 1st generation model (pre-facelift, 2007?) over all other Cayennes. But I have understood some interior/connectivity upgrades upgrades were introduced that year (?) that are worth paying attention to?

Being used to low-tech and reliable Jeeps and 4x4s I'm not entirely sure what I'm getting into, and thought I would seek advice from the experts.

First off, a basic thing like an oil change. Is it still a standard 20min job with the dry-sump system? Can you change a headlamp bulb without tearing the whole front fascia apart? How error prone are the various onboard electronic systems?

I've obviously read up on these vehicles and established an understanding of the various weaknesses (cooling lines, coils, driveshaft support, etc), and I understand it shares many components with the Audi Q7 and VW Touareg - is this limited to suspension/undercarriage, or also transmission and t-case? How big of an issue has the "sealed-for-life" tranny oil issue been - and what's accepted as best practice for high-mileage cars?

Is there an easy visual inspection one can do in order to confirm whether the plastic coolant lines have been replaced?

I asked for a quote from the official dealership for a set of new rotors/pads and a sensor plus some small crap, and was floored ($4k). Luckily, found online sources with prices at a fraction of that. What is the preferred source for moderately priced (aftermarket) parts online? RockAuto has been a trustworthy supplier for years (despite me being located in Scandinavia), but I wasn't impressed with their inventory. for the Cayenne What do DIY Porsche owners prefer - eEuroparts, Amazon, eBay.de, Porscheshop.co.uk?

Lastly, what kind of variance (other than the extra 100 ponies) can one expect between the S and the Turbo in terms of reliability, mileage, etc?

Is there a website with VIN derived build-sheets for EU cars? How about source for production numbers?

Thanks in advance!

oldskewel

Good luck.

Dilberto

Get the Turbo.... but not a 2003 model, which has the most amount of "bugs." By the 2006 model year - Porsche already changed over 50 electronic, hydraulic, suspension and electro-mechanical parts with superceded and improved versions. 2006 Turbo is considered the "Unicorn...."

95_993

A couple comments....

Checking for plastic coolant pipes is pretty easy with smartphone or small $20 borescope.

Oil changes, headlights, etc very easy and straightforward as noted above.

Vehicles of this age and mileage should be taken to an Indy or DIY....dealer is last choice. Nice thing is that so many have been there before you, lots of DIY info out there.

Pretty easy to add Bluetooth, etc if that's a big desire.

At 200k miles, you maybe beyond worries of scoring.

nodoors

As someone who is in the middle of an alternator replacement. Pray every single day that it lasts forever!!! I am not kidding.

ARH

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

I have good experience with Aisin. In fact they had a JV with Warner that made fairly bulletproof ATs that went into Jeeps and Toyota Supras. However, non of the many OEMs (Mercedes, Jaguar, Audi, to name a few) that I know have been able to make the "lifetime oil" work - and 170-200k miles seem to be the accepted boundary for what the transmission can deal without oil changes. Is this also true for Cayennes, given that I don't see much about it maybe it's no big deal (or a ticking time bomb)?

The culprit of cylinder scoring is Nikasil (or similar alloy) liners that deteriorate from (low-quality/high lead level) gasoline over time? I know BMW had a similar issue with their V8s in the late 90s/early 00s, but most if not all cases were evident after a 3-40k miles (and hence subject to warranty, etc.). Is this not true for the Cayenne? Is there really any residual risk for a 120k mile motor?

Where can I find details on factory options and the various changes/revisions/upgrades through the years? I have looked around and find the info to be somewhat sparse compared to other brands. 2006 sounds like a good bet, but they are still $35k vehicles around here. The older 2003-04 models have taken the worst depreciation hi,t and the ones I am looking at can be had for about $15k (at which point I'm thinking they won't drop much more if taken care of).

Duly noted on the alternator. From what I gather it rests underneath the plenum in the valley (of death)?

Dilberto

Cayenne cylinder scoring is not a metals composition issue.... but a machining tolerance matter. Porsche contracts a huge machining contractor in Mindelheim, Germany, Grobe-Werke. GW owns the ultra-precision Zeiss optical verifiers that validates each job. When they get overwhelmed during peak production periods - they sub out the work to lesser shops that do not use the 150,000 Euro machines GW uses. It is these production inconsistencies that Porsche does NOT want to own up to, simply because there is no way to track specific engine blocks to different contractors, as Grobe-Werke is the primary machining contractor(they do VW, Audi, MBZ and BMW too!).

*Former Stock Analyst, with many insider ties, to the German Automotive industry*

nodoors

The cylinder scoring issue is a game of engine roulette. There is no mileage where you can guarantee that it is safe. Do a craigslist search tempest search of Cayenne and Ticking. You are certain to find a handful at any given time with anywhere from 70k-200k with overly-optimistic sellers (euphemism for deceitful or stupid) claiming that it is certainly a valve train or injector issue. Do not fall into this trap. We regularly get new owners who post to this board about a weird knock or tick on a Cayenne they just purchased and I have never seen it end with something simple.

As for the alternator, it is water cooled and tightly between the passenger side turbo, frame rail, engine mount, cooling fan, intercooler plumbing, etc... Porsche stuffed about 50lbs worth of **** in a 5lbs bag. It is quite impressive. I have swapped alternators/generators in cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, flying things, etc. and this swap is in a whole different league. There is a level of disassembly that is hard to describe until you are there. The book quotes 12 hours of labor. Also, let it be known on the turbo models that you have to drop the engine cradle to change the engine mounts. It seems that pretty much all of the 955's are due for this procedure about now, because they are hydraulic and begin leaking with time and heat cycles.

Not trying to scare you away, just letting you know that even 'simple' DIY projects on other vehicles can be on a different level with this car. Follow an engine build thread and the level of mystery Porsche has provided us about the specs of the internal parts may anger you a bit.

ARH

Wow, that's interesting - and admittedly discomforting. Who would've thought Porsche would **** up on cylinder tolerances? Hmm, can these peak production periods be allocated to certain years or parts of the year - i.e. I would assume there is some cyclical patterns with pent up inventory towards the end of the year? Is there empirical evidence that suggest the problem can be avoided with manufacturing dates early or mid-year, perhaps?

What are the early stage symptoms of scored cylinders? I see ticking mentioned, but intuitively also would think it to be more valve/cam related?

Sheesh, sounds like a lot of fun. A small consolation perhaps - but at least it's not like with VW's ingenious W12 Touareg or Phaeton, where you have to drop the entire motor/front-assembly in order to access the alternator.

Is there any other mechanical or visual difference between the Turbo and C (other than the additional plumbing and IC/turbo hardware, of course)? Sounds like the non-Turbo might be a better candidate as it pertains to ease of maintenance?

Shawn Stanford

The base (V6) models are dirt cheap and don't have the scoring issue. Obviously they don't have as much grunt, but they'll get out of their own way. I know the V6 motor can also have issues, but based on posts here, they seem pretty reliable. Mine's at 155k with no issues.

ARH

In my market V6s (aren't they technically VR6s?) and S/V8s seem to run about the same - Turbos are invariably more costly tho.

So, I would really appreciate your guys' advice on this one car I'm considering pulling the trigger on ('04 S w/ 125k miles).

The bad stuff:

The front air suspension level sensor (and associated bracket) has broken off (is it vulnerably located?), and the system is in sort of a limp mode (?).
Rear window lift not working (motor is running, no action). Broken cog or jumped rail?
Front brake rotors are getting ripe for replacing (might as well get one of those f&r rotor/pad kits).
Cross-member bushings are starting to show wear (I have not been able to confirm specifically which cross-member - seller might confuse with lower control arms).
Rust/corrosion bubbling underneath the rubber-clad weather stripping on door/B-pillar.
Rust/corrosion on trailing edge inside of rear doors.

The upshot is that the air compressor (7yrs ago @ 71k), driveshaft/support bearing (6yrs @ 80k) and cooling pipes (3yrs ago @ 106k) all have been replaced. There is no maintenance log, but seller have located about $27k in dealership repair receipts (out of which a 3rd is - presumably mild - collision repairs). Vehicle has been leased the first three years, and had two owners since (one of which used it as a company car and had it for eight years).

What online source would you recommend me for the above-mentioned parts? The sensor seem pricey and not widely available?

cordsig79

I owned a 2006 Cayenne Base, sold it to a friend with a promise to buy it back if he ever tired of it or the engine went caput but still pulling strong about 225k miles.

I bought a 2004 Cayenne Turbo.........dont buy the S, the depreciation has hit maximum. If you have a decent Indy, go through ebay for salvage parts or Pelican/Suncoast or other popular places for maintenance items.

The cars are not hard to get work done on them. I bought engine mounts, gaskets, etc thinking i would have to do it on the Turbo asap because of general neglect but I am 2 years into owning it and just oil and gas is all that I needed after my indy looked at the beast.

oldskewel

I'd gladly pay $1k more for a V6 over an S or a turbo, just to avoid the concern about cylinder scoring. I have an S and hardly ever floor it. Not sure if I should admit that here. Don't tell anyone.

ARH

Any input on these specifics?

Also, some guidance on telltale signs and indications on identifying/avoiding cylinder scoring would be greatly appreciated.

I'm ready to give the guy an offer, but the scoring issue is kind of a turnoff without some kind of validation.

nodoors

To give yourself better chances against scoring, don't start the engine if it is colder than about 20 degrees F.