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Engine knock in 2010 turbo s

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Old 02-08-2018, 03:05 PM
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Mackayak
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Default Engine knock in 2010 turbo s

Hi there,
This my first time on this site so bear with me! I have a 2010 cayenne turbo S I bought used 1 year ago with about 180,000 km (little over 110,000 miles). Car runs great and I have been driving the car very hard over the last year. Car now has 240,000 km (150,000 miles) About 3 months ago I began to hear this ticking noise. Brought it in to Porsche Dealership and asked them to find the source of the ticking. Turns out one cylinder (number 3) is badly scorched. The car still has a crazy amount of power and it runs great. Should I be concerned and what will eventually happen? Thanks in advance!
Phil
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Old 02-08-2018, 03:56 PM
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lupo.sk
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Originally Posted by Mackayak
Hi there,
This my first time on this site so bear with me! I have a 2010 cayenne turbo S I bought used 1 year ago with about 180,000 km (little over 110,000 miles). Car runs great and I have been driving the car very hard over the last year. Car now has 240,000 km (150,000 miles) About 3 months ago I began to hear this ticking noise. Brought it in to Porsche Dealership and asked them to find the source of the ticking. Turns out one cylinder (number 3) is badly scorched. The car still has a crazy amount of power and it runs great. Should I be concerned and what will eventually happen? Thanks in advance!
Phil
Eventually? You just wrote it is badly scored. Look up my 08 CTT thread on what's going to "eventually" happen
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:02 PM
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19psi
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Last week I mentioned that I never heard of a GTS or Turbo S experiencing scored cylinders. Now I feel like a jinx.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:02 PM
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Actually he wrote "scorched" not "scored" - and I'd have to ask him to clarify. If it's scored we know where that's going. Scorched? Would need to know what the dealership meant by using that term.. a cylinder running lean?
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Old 02-08-2018, 10:54 PM
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Yes, scored vs. scorched is a big difference when it comes to these engines. I had never heard the term before buying my Cayenne. Now my PTSD triggers every time I read it. (just kidding, but not completely)

Best of luck to Mackayak. I'll be following this. Please keep us updated, since as 19psi says, there do not seem to be many reports of GTS or Turbo failures, although there's maybe not a great explanation for why not, so there is doubt. Every data point helps.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
Yes, scored vs. scorched is a big difference when it comes to these engines. I had never heard the term before buying my Cayenne. Now my PTSD triggers every time I read it. (just kidding, but not completely)

Best of luck to Mackayak. I'll be following this. Please keep us updated, since as 19psi says, there do not seem to be many reports of GTS or Turbo failures, although there's maybe not a great explanation for why not, so there is doubt. Every data point helps.
My 2008 CTT suffered from cylinder scoring... 19psi referenced the GTS and Turbo S which both started in 2009, after they changed the cylinder honing process and went to a different coating on the rings. I think the change helped but there are still examples of scoring in 958 NA and Turbo engines.

This info is in TSB:
"Engine - Crankcase/Piston/Piston Ring Replacement Info.
Service
1
25/13 ENU 1010
Jun 20, 2014"

Cheers,
TomF
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:02 PM
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I'm scored too, unfortunately. I added 2 bottles of Liqui Moly Ceratec and the oil consumption went down and so did the smoking. I recently scoped the cylinders and they appear to have a smooth, glass-like, hard coating over the scratches and scoring(heat/pressure-fused ceramic). I treat my CTT like a Special Needs Child now: so only the very best, Group IV synthetic oils, fluids and more frequently too.

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Old 02-09-2018, 04:23 PM
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So much for trading up from my 2004 "OMG what a POS!" vehicle on a newer one with the same potential problems. Just think, I could have had a higher payment but the same problems.

I'm starting to think the only way to enjoy these cars is to get CPO with a big fat warranty.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:25 AM
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Mackayak
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Thanks guys for all you input. The bill says "excessive scoring" whatever that means. Could there be an issue in extreme cold weather (-40) when driving the car hard that the differences in temperature could cause scoring or rather in very hot weather (which we do not have often) when driving hard would cause the same? I am not a mechanic so any ideas would help. I am certainly not going to spend more than what I paid for the car to have this noise fixed. Car starts perfectly and runs with as much power as it has always has, too much )
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:16 AM
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If it says what you wrote, the engine is done and you have four options:
- buy a new engine from PAG ($$$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$)
- buy a used engine (might have the same issue lurking beneath)
- have it rebuilt
- sell the car

It happens more in cold climates. ALWAYS wait till the oil temp needle reaches the middle before you step on it. Takes significantly more time than the coolant to warm up.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:05 PM
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This scares the sh*t out of me.... how can you tell if the cylinders are scored if the car is running perfectly other than getting a scope? The ticking sound can be a number of things, i.e lifters, etc.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by James1911 View Post
This scares the sh*t out of me.... how can you tell if the cylinders are scored if the car is running perfectly other than getting a scope? The ticking sound can be a number of things, i.e lifters, etc.
There are usually other clues like one plug being noticeably darker than the others. Increased oil use. The scope is the usual definitive answer once it gets bad enough to appear above the top of the piston crown at BDC. And I have yet to hear of a lifter going bad on one of these V8's - probably has happened, but unfortunately the scoring problem greatly surpasses it as a common problem.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:38 PM
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Mackayak
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Thanks guys,
Car will keep knocking and I will keep driving it! It doesn't seem to burn more oil than usual. I always wait till the car is fully warmed up before I let her fly! I bet you I will be able to put another 100,000 miles on this thing before it blows up! I'll keep you all posted!
Philippe
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by James1911 View Post
This scares the sh*t out of me.... how can you tell if the cylinders are scored if the car is running perfectly other than getting a scope? The ticking sound can be a number of things, i.e lifters, etc.
Yes, me too!

Before buying my 2004 S recently, I did as much as I thought I could reasonably do to rule out a problem.

All documented in this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...e-ticking.html

Basically, I:
- posted videos for others to listen for clues
- pulled plugs to inspect plugs + coils
- compression test
- borescope from top
- oil analysis

Following all of that, everything was clear (great, actually) and the only hint of a problem was a still unexplained quiet knocking sound heard in the videos.

Since I was buying this truck from my brother in law, and me taking a lemon off his hands (if that turns out to be the case) would be a gift to him, I was OK with that and did not dig any deeper.

Two things I could have done better, if buying from a 3rd party:
1. my borescope is not very good. Doing it again, I'd buy a better one for better images. I could see better than the still images posted in that thread, since you can pick up a little more info based on the live video vs. a still image. And it all looked good.
2. Borescope from BELOW - from images of scored pistons and cylinders, it is known that this problems starts low - below the pistons at BDC. Borescoping from below (not sure exactly what is involved in this, but I know it's possible) would find a problem (or not) earlier in its development.

My BIL bought this car off-lease (about 3 years and 37k miles) from our local SF Bay area dealer (Carlsen, Redwood City, CA). Always lived here, very mild climate. Not Canada at all. It had cylinder scoring at 45k miles in 2009, right after his 12 month warranty was up. The scoring led to a catastrophic failure, with the engine seizing. I'm not sure how the math worked, but Porsche paid for half the cost of a crate engine, and the dealer took 15% off for labor, etc., and it cost him about $5-6k out of pocket. Not bad, but even with that support (which would certainly not be coming at this point), it's worth more than the truck is worth now.

So cylinder scoring will TOTAL most Cayennes, and certainly the older ones like mine. Great vehicles, but I'd only recommend them to someone who would not mind too much if they got totaled out of the blue (with no insurance coverage like you'd have if it were stolen or in a crash).
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:38 PM
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19psi
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Originally Posted by Mackayak View Post
Thanks guys,
Car will keep knocking and I will keep driving it! It doesn't seem to burn more oil than usual. I always wait till the car is fully warmed up before I let her fly! I bet you I will be able to put another 100,000 miles on this thing before it blows up! I'll keep you all posted!
Philippe
Hate to tell you this, but you'll be lucky to get 1,000 miles. Most claim that once it starts, it goes downhill fast. Misfires from fouled plugs until the car is no longer driveable..
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