$5800 for a 97 Boxster?
01-28-2016, 12:27 AM
#16
Race Director
Macster,
Thanks for the info. I don't plan on buying one anytime soon but for a DIY'er like myself these cars are starting to look attractive. There appears to be more depreciation in store for these cars as some can't even seem to sell in the $5k range. If I was to get one, no question the first thing on the list would be clutch, IMS bearing, and AOS. Anyone who thinks they can buy a Porsche for $5k and not have to put money in it is delusional. Every used car I buy I go through it and get the service up to my standards before putting it on the road for Dan87951 duty.
Unfortunately, stupid engineers and accountants make these cars more difficult and unreliable then they need to be!
Does your Boxster with 297k have the original engine? I don't see many Boxster's for sale with high miles which isn't confidence inspiring.
Again appreciate the feedback!
Thanks for the info. I don't plan on buying one anytime soon but for a DIY'er like myself these cars are starting to look attractive. There appears to be more depreciation in store for these cars as some can't even seem to sell in the $5k range. If I was to get one, no question the first thing on the list would be clutch, IMS bearing, and AOS. Anyone who thinks they can buy a Porsche for $5k and not have to put money in it is delusional. Every used car I buy I go through it and get the service up to my standards before putting it on the road for Dan87951 duty.
Unfortunately, stupid engineers and accountants make these cars more difficult and unreliable then they need to be! Does your Boxster with 297k have the original engine? I don't see many Boxster's for sale with high miles which isn't confidence inspiring.
Again appreciate the feedback!
I've encountered a couple of high milage Boxsters. I don't know about the other owners but I don't sell as I enjoy driving the car too much. Besides what would I get for it? And what would I replace it with?
So far it is cheaper to service/repair than it is to replace.
01-28-2016, 09:31 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
What??? Original clutch!!! Do you drive it like a Porsche should be driven or is something you just take it easy on because of the miles? Does it also have the original IMS?
01-28-2016, 11:43 AM
#18
Race Director
One can enjoy a Porshce without destroying a clutch every 40K miles.
I do not drag strip launch the car nor do I use the clutch to slow the car's speed. I don't keep the clutch pedal depressed at a stop and I do not use the clutch to hold the car on stationary an up slope.
My technique to get the car moving from a stop requires minimal RPMs over hot idle and minimal clutch slippage. It helps the 2.7l engine is very tractable at low RPMs and while not a tractor engine does provide good torque down low. I've never driven one but the 2.5l engines are while probably still tractable do not have quite the torque and clutch life in the 2.5l cars can suffer because of this.
Oh, and it does have the original IMS and IMSB. The only thing in that area not orginal is the RMS and IMS end flange (w/bolts), both replaced under warranty at around 25K miles to address an "RMS" leak.
01-28-2016, 11:57 AM
#19
Nordschleife Master
I like to bring my cars to DE events or to the track a least once a year. Obviously more stress is put on the drivetrain because of this but the car isn't "abused" its just in its natural habitat. I also take my cars on "spirited" drives every weekend.
You definitely got a good one from the sounds of it. I have a hard time finding cars that have made it to 150k miles without their engines being replaced. Did you ever follow Porsche's oil change interval or did you go shorter?
You definitely got a good one from the sounds of it. I have a hard time finding cars that have made it to 150k miles without their engines being replaced. Did you ever follow Porsche's oil change interval or did you go shorter?
01-29-2016, 11:14 AM
#20
Race Director
I like to bring my cars to DE events or to the track a least once a year. Obviously more stress is put on the drivetrain because of this but the car isn't "abused" its just in its natural habitat. I also take my cars on "spirited" drives every weekend.
You definitely got a good one from the sounds of it. I have a hard time finding cars that have made it to 150k miles without their engines being replaced. Did you ever follow Porsche's oil change interval or did you go shorter?
You definitely got a good one from the sounds of it. I have a hard time finding cars that have made it to 150k miles without their engines being replaced. Did you ever follow Porsche's oil change interval or did you go shorter?
As for the Porsche oil change interval I scrapped this early on when I had -- on a whim -- an oil analysis done and it found quite a bit of water in the oil, around 7% IIRC. This was the factory fill oil with around 4K miles on it. Living east of KC MO then I had bought the car in the dead of winter (mid-Jan) and drove it every day. Some short trips but a lot of long ones too.
After the analysis I decided to change the oil and did so pretty soon after. I also decided that the 15K mile oil change interval and the 30K mile oil filter change interval were rubbish and based on the analysis decided to follow a 5K mile oil/filter change interval.
The high water content also piqued my curiosity and I started monitoring among other things the engine coolant temperature with an OBD2 code reader/data viewer/logger and found the engine was quite cold blooded. In cooler/cold weather the engine never got very hot at all and this resulted in the oil remaining cool and retaining water which is a contaminant which is a by-product of combustion.
More frequent oil/filter changes I think have contributed the most to the engine's long and relatively trouble free service life. Another contributing factor could be luck.
02-14-2016, 02:03 PM
#21
Congratulations on caring for and enjoying the drive of your near 300k mile boxster..
That's awesome and I find your theory on shortening oil change intervals to 5 k miles...
Males sense that the IMS issue would be a none event with frequent use and oil changes including the oil filter..
The government agencies to minimize oil disposal had more to do with motivating extended oil change intervals....
Either that or factory service taking responsibilities during the first 36 months...
I'm sure your 300k mile boxster is been a great ownership experience.
That's awesome and I find your theory on shortening oil change intervals to 5 k miles...
Males sense that the IMS issue would be a none event with frequent use and oil changes including the oil filter..
The government agencies to minimize oil disposal had more to do with motivating extended oil change intervals....
Either that or factory service taking responsibilities during the first 36 months...
I'm sure your 300k mile boxster is been a great ownership experience.
02-14-2016, 03:08 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Great information Macster. I bought a 99 on Friday and had reservations about the oil interval. Given how cold it is this ttime of year and my plan to daily drive it sounds like I'll be doing my oil twice annually.
02-14-2016, 05:25 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
I am still not yet the owner of a Boxster or 911 or any Porsche but it seems likely that I will end up with one that could be at risk of the IMS bearing problem cropping up, so I have made a special study of the issue and the conclusion that some experts have come to, which I agree with, is that frequency of oil change is not a factor in IMS failure.
The IMS bearing runs submerged in oil. But it's a greased bearing with grease seals. Eventually the seals fail and oil gets in and washes the grease out, but the problem is that the bearing is not designed for oil lubrication AND there is not enough oil circulation in the bearing because of the SMALL amount of leakage through the seal, so the bearing ends up running with the wrong lubrication and with inadequate oil circulation through the bearing, leading to overheating and failure.
Knowing this, I myself would never "roll the dice" and buy a car with an affect engine and let it run on the original bearing. I would buy it knowing that I WILL be spending the money for an IMS retrofit. It's much cheaper than the costs associated with a failed bearing.
The IMS bearing runs submerged in oil. But it's a greased bearing with grease seals. Eventually the seals fail and oil gets in and washes the grease out, but the problem is that the bearing is not designed for oil lubrication AND there is not enough oil circulation in the bearing because of the SMALL amount of leakage through the seal, so the bearing ends up running with the wrong lubrication and with inadequate oil circulation through the bearing, leading to overheating and failure.
Knowing this, I myself would never "roll the dice" and buy a car with an affect engine and let it run on the original bearing. I would buy it knowing that I WILL be spending the money for an IMS retrofit. It's much cheaper than the costs associated with a failed bearing.
02-14-2016, 10:09 PM
#24
Race Director
I am still not yet the owner of a Boxster or 911 or any Porsche but it seems likely that I will end up with one that could be at risk of the IMS bearing problem cropping up, so I have made a special study of the issue and the conclusion that some experts have come to, which I agree with, is that frequency of oil change is not a factor in IMS failure.
The IMS bearing runs submerged in oil. But it's a greased bearing with grease seals. Eventually the seals fail and oil gets in and washes the grease out, but the problem is that the bearing is not designed for oil lubrication AND there is not enough oil circulation in the bearing because of the SMALL amount of leakage through the seal, so the bearing ends up running with the wrong lubrication and with inadequate oil circulation through the bearing, leading to overheating and failure.
Knowing this, I myself would never "roll the dice" and buy a car with an affect engine and let it run on the original bearing. I would buy it knowing that I WILL be spending the money for an IMS retrofit. It's much cheaper than the costs associated with a failed bearing.
The IMS bearing runs submerged in oil. But it's a greased bearing with grease seals. Eventually the seals fail and oil gets in and washes the grease out, but the problem is that the bearing is not designed for oil lubrication AND there is not enough oil circulation in the bearing because of the SMALL amount of leakage through the seal, so the bearing ends up running with the wrong lubrication and with inadequate oil circulation through the bearing, leading to overheating and failure.
Knowing this, I myself would never "roll the dice" and buy a car with an affect engine and let it run on the original bearing. I would buy it knowing that I WILL be spending the money for an IMS retrofit. It's much cheaper than the costs associated with a failed bearing.
The question is why does the seal fail? With infrequent oil change the oil accumulates combustion byproducts which form acids in the oil. This acid attacks, among other things, the seal.
By changing the oil more frequently the acid build up is kept at a tolerable level and the seal can last a long time.
More frequent oil changes also in many cases helps keep from happening besides the IMSB failure any one of the 32, or whatever the count is up to now, failure modes.
02-14-2016, 10:44 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Good point. But I was under the impression that seal failure was due to reaction with hot oil (not acidic effects, just hot oil) and wear to the inner race contact surface.
It's good to gain a greater understanding of the problem. Thank you for that insight. Personally I'd never let an oil change on ANYTHING be stretched past 5000 or 6000 miles anyway. Even a 10 quart oil change is pretty cheap insurance.
It's good to gain a greater understanding of the problem. Thank you for that insight. Personally I'd never let an oil change on ANYTHING be stretched past 5000 or 6000 miles anyway. Even a 10 quart oil change is pretty cheap insurance.
02-19-2016, 12:55 AM
#26
I paid $4000 for my 1997 Boxster. It had low mileage and was in good shape. I've had it five years now and it still has yet to fail me—and I absolutely do not baby this car. It's an amazingly robust and reliable vehicle.
02-19-2016, 12:01 PM
#27
Was that a normal price back then, or an outlier of a deal ?
02-20-2016, 12:50 PM
#28
Nordschleife Master
02-20-2016, 01:18 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
02-21-2016, 11:56 AM
#30
Nordschleife Master