RodVertex

Dear fellow 986 enthusiast,
Hello. My name is Rod and I represent Vertex Auto. Vertex engineers designed and created the Drive Shaft Bearing Support Mount for 2005-2009 Cayennes and Touregs, the Alternator Updated Aluminum Fan for the 1974-1989 911s, the updated rear trailing control arm for 1974-1989 911s, and the Intermediate shaft bearing upgrade called the Eternal Fix which fits 996, 997.1, 986, and 987.1 (Boxsters and Caymans). Vertex has been in the Porsche aftermarket business since 1985 and continues to engineer, build and sell products intended to fix manufacturer design errors, improve performance and reduce the cost of ownership for the entire line of Porsches.
We want to first apologize to you fellow Porsche owners, especially 986 enthusiast for not being present during many of the IMSB discussions on this board. Vertex made a conscious business decision to hold back on the internet presence until there were enough Eternal Fixes installed in Boxsters and 911s to appropriately respond with authority and in particular evidence about how well the Eternal Fix works. Even though our data and multiple experimental conditions provided our engineers with the evidence that the Eternal Fix would last the life of the engine, we needed real-world confirmation, customer experience, word of mouth, and dealer feedback to be established before we widened our internet presence.
Since 2012, we have sold over 1000 Eternal Fix IMSBs that are now in low and high mileage Boxsters and 911s, in hot and cold climates, and under varied maintenance schedules, with zero reported failures. Let me repeat, ZERO reported failures.
Regarding our cylindrical roller bearing design, our engineers did not reinvent the wheel or enhance the existing OEM part. Instead, they used math and physics and a tried and true approach to reengineer an established bearing design to work in the intermediate shaft bearing application, which had been used in the transmission of street and racing Porsches dating back to the 1960s. A cylindrical roller bearing design that is known to endure high stress, high RPM, all-angle demands placed on it under even more severe conditions than what would be found in the engine. The intermediate shaft roller bearing design model developed by Vertex and used by Porsche for decades is now an over-engineered permanent upgrade essential to the life of your engine.
In addition to permanently fixing the design error in the intermediate shaft bearing, our upgraded IMSB provides owners with that much more needed confidence that their engines will not become part of the reported 1%, or 4%, or 8% or 10% destined to implode, or be a required maintenance inspection item when the clutch or AOS need replacing. How about that for peace of mind driving! Of course we warranty the part for 2 years or 20,000 against defect. In addition to extending the IMSB life of Boxsters, we believe the installation of the Eternal Fix will be critical to the long terms success and ultimately the increase in values of the 986.
We are available for any questions or comments related to the Eternal Fix. Just to be clear, we don’t know everything and we’re not going to hide behind attitude, bullying, or bombast. So if we don’t know, you’ll have to believe that we don’t. If you prefer to post your question in private you are welcome to PM me. We respect that. Our goal is to support and promote the 986 community.
Happy Open Air Driving!!

Spokayman

Rod, I posted the following on your thread in the 996 forum, but it seems appropriate to cover it here as well.

You mention that the Eternal Fix is applicable for "996, 997.1, 986, and 987.1 (Boxsters and Caymans)".
And you mention that the installation does not require opening up the engine (splitting the engine case).
From what I can tell about the product, looking online, the Eternal Fix does not seem compatible with 987.1 Caymans at all (M97 engines), and would only be applicable to the first year or so of production of 987.1 Boxsters and 997.1 Carreras with the M96 engine.

Also your online website "Applications" chart does not list 987.1 or 997.1 models at all.

Please clarify this.
Thanks.

mikefocke

That is what Porsche thought too for their first several thousand cars and several years, then reality intruded. Ditto LN.

Naming a kit "The Eternal" on day one isn't bombast?

Don't you love marketing?

OTOH, LN/Flat6 has just offered a roller bearing based kit so the idea isn't preposterous. But the devil is in the details of what bearing manufacturer and what characteristics of the bearing used and what oiling source.

Time and quantity will tell.

Schnell Gelb

"1000 Eternal Fix IMSBs that are now in low and high mileage .... 911s"
Err... should be 996 for clarity ?
And no mention of the perennial engineering objection to simple cylindrical roller bearings in this IMSB application - thrust+heat .
Not saying it is a bad product but if you stumble over basic Porsche nomenclature and ignore prior objections to your product it undermines your credibility.

mikefocke

Warranty against defect for half the miles that the LN bearing is supposed to be good for (and that is their cheapest, not LN's best or second best). And how do you ever prove that there was a defect?

And if it failed, would the fact that they would replace it or refund your money console you as you faced the replacement cost and trouble of a new engine?

Sapientoni

My in car 2006 replacement is past 18,000 miles since the operation. Now at 58,000 miles and zooming.

johnsjmc

I,m looking at doing this to my Boxster and you cant access the oil pump without dropping the motor.
If I do the bearing first and then reinstall the trans and its mounts I might be able to lower the nose enough to get the pump out BUT If I cant get it down low enough then it becomes an even bigger job to lower the whole thing .
Not as easy as it looks in Vertex ads. Back to a conventional, or ceramic ball replacement or the solution from LN

Schnell Gelb

Suggest you :
1. Ask Sapientoni - the member who posted above yours to ask how he did it in situ.
2. Call Vertex.
But don't speak to the Sales & Marketing fool(s). Your question is about practical mechanics ,not sales. So ask to speak to one of the Vertex mechanics who has actually done the job.
If you must have a cylindrical roller bearing (instead of a deep groove ball) ,try RND ?

dbcooper292

It has always seemed to me the basic issue is a bearing which couldn't survive outside the active oiling system of the motor, and the fixes involve tougher bearings, but I've wondered whether anyone's tried adding this area to the oil system instead. in a much simpler time I did this to several British motors with a tap, a banjo fitting and some braided line. Reading of success stories in which the owner pulls the seals off a OEM ('flawed') bearing and just passive splashing keeps it alive make me even more curious - is the flaw the durability of the bearing in an unoilled environment, or more deeply is it just the failure to oil that part of the motor and should we attack the problem not the symptom? (f.t.r. I have the LN Ceramic kit)

Schnell Gelb

SUGgest you search IMSB DOF
or Technofix DOF
http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_2/TechnoFix_DOF.html

johnsjmc

I,ve read most of the posts about Pedros DOF,Jake and Cavallos or Nuvarro at LN ceramic and newest expensive plain bearing solution (which appears to only be recently available to replace my 2 row ball bearing).
I am asking SPECIFICALLY about the EPS/Vertex bearing oil pump modification..
I am not opposed to using any of the replacement bearing but was given a new unused EPS unit by a friend who bought it and then sold his car.
I have dropped the trans and see it is nearly impossible to access the oil pump without removing the engine mount and lowering the nose down. even partially dropped I,m not sure I can access the pump. To do this I should install the bearing and trans ,to support the rear. I am going to call EPS customer support and see if the bearing oiling was optional and not absolutely required. Most of the other bearings rely on splash alone.

Really my main question is Can you access the pump without removing the engine?

aftCG

You can absolutely get the entire oil pump off the engine by just lowering the nose. Lock crank, lock cams, remove tensioners.

You only need to remove the cover to do this mod using the punch. I drilled the hole instead of using the supplied punch, but I was able to do that because I had the shaft on my work bench.

Sapientoni

My daily driver with the IN SITU style ceramic has almost 58,000 miles now. It takes a special technique to install the seal and I suspect that is why the factory didn't just enlarge the block flange hole. With over 40 years industrial and hobby mechanic work, I developed a simple way to do it. (Get the seal installed, not the hole enlarged, but I do enlarge the hole). Even the factory style seal is tricky to install without accidentally nipping off a bit of the rubber seal, patience and experience are essential. I have found a different and properly dimensioned seal as the larger hole requires a different seal. My daily driver hasn't leaked yet, but did have to stretch the factory seal to fit the flange and that creates a possible leak I wasn't happy with selling. I think searching Sapientoni would give you all my posts relative to this subject, and some bearing info about wear, failures, and physical operation.

cmjohnson

It is my considered opinion that any "fix" that involves a sealed roller bearing inside the engine is not, and can not be, a permanent fix.

The environment that a sealed roller bearing is designed to operate in is a grease lubricated environment with seals to keep grease in and all contaminants out, INCUDING oil.

You say you've fielded about 1000 of your "eternal" fixes since 2012. Given average driving mileage per year for cars so affected, I believe that your fix doesn't have enough operational history to be considered to be eternal. Not even lifetime. Currently it can only be qualified as "short term and counting" if you are to be scrupulously honest about it.



High internal operating temperatures and an oily environment ensure that eventually, the bearing seals WILL fail, oil WILL wash the grease out, and in an unmodified engine, not enough oil will circulate through the bearing (even assuming that oil is an appropriate lubricant for the bearing instead of grease, which is doubtful) and the bearing will overheat and fail.

Looking at engines that have been damaged and torn down after IMS failures, one thing becomes clear: The plain bearing end of the intermediate shaft NEVER fails.

In general terms, properly lubricated plain bearings that are properly toleranced and clearanced NEVER fail as long as oil supply to them is adequate.

So, it stands to reason that a true "eternal" (let's say "lifetime of the rotating assembly" instead) bearing fix would abandon roller bearings and seek to replicate the plain bearing design of the end of the the intermediate shaft that never fails. Machine a replacement plain bearing "slug" to replace the roller bearing in its housing in the block, and machine and fabricate a properly matched plain bearing end on the IMS. The specifics are left to engineering specialists. It would also (I think) be necessary to engineer a reliable oil feed system for the modification.

johnsjmc

The one error here I see immediately in this quote is The roller bearing from EPS is NOT sealed . The oem Porsche ball bearing IS. The LN ceramic ball replacement has a seal on one side only . The LN bearing uses splash lube with engine oil. The EPS roller adds a metered oil flow from the pump and or splash .Where the only bearing that relies on it,s seals and grease is the oem original ball bearing. The Solution from LN/Raby and Pedro take oiling further with an oil fed line from the oil filter or the head.

I asked my question above to see if you can access the pump end with the engine in the car. I specifically said I was not debating whose bearing to use. and that I had already read much of the debate