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Motor seized within 5 weeks of purchase! Help!

 
Old 09-17-2014, 11:29 AM
  #31  
ep3_lol
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Did you guys clean up around the spark plug? That doesn't look like it's got 60k miles and 15 years worth of dirt on it.
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Old 09-17-2014, 11:45 AM
  #32  
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Really, the whole engine needs to be gone through. So far you've found one and only one failure. If the plugs are out, and you didn't say if the engine would rotate now, so I assume it won't. That indicates a non-hydrolock situation and it could be anything. Piston seized in bore, crank bearing, rod bearing, it's all a crap shoot until you get in there and find what's wrong.

Early, very prelim, indication of a valve timing mishap which put a valve into the piston, and this is one of the results. The cause of the valve mishap can still be a lot of things.

Now, as for liability, here's where you need to be cautious. If you did in fact pay a Porsche branded shop for a PPI, and you got a report, and it shows no indication of engine damage, you may have a case against the person or shop that did the PPI. If they did their due diligence, they would have checked for metal in the filter. This is a very well known failure mode on this engine. Shoot, I'm not even in the 'know' about the 996 and Boxster and even I know about it.

Take pictures as you disassemble and validate that this is a defect that could have been found by a proper engine inspection by cutting open the oil filter and taking a sample of the oil during the PPI. Any Porsche shop will know this, as they have had to eat hundreds of engines from the IMS failure, and it's so well known in the community as to be axiomatic. Not only that, but there is a settlement from Porsche(a crappy settlement) acknowledging the failure mode, and offering meager compensation for a very small group of owners.

Once you got the PPI the dealer was completely off the hook as you took the word of a third party professional as to the condition, as well as the 'as is' statement on purchase. If it turns out you have a IMS failure, causing a valve timing failure, causing a valve crash into the piston, causing the engine to lock up, then I would sure have a talk with the Porsche dealer lawyer and warn him that a case is coming his way if they don't make this right. You may not get everything, but you may also get some satisfaction. Don't lose your PPI paperwork.

Note that there are a lot of 'if', 'may', statements in my post. This is all a ton of speculation, but at least it's one avenue I would go down given that you trusted the mfg professionals to give it a clean bill of health, and a few weeks later you're out more than half the value of the car already. I would think a small claims judge would look favorably on your plight if you explain about the IMS, and that was your failure mode(which we don't know yet).
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:10 PM
  #33  
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I would expect if a judge to rules in your favor you'd get the amount you paid for the PPI back, but not for actual damages to the engine.
Agreed that an actual Porsche dealer should have gone straight to the filter.
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Old 09-17-2014, 02:15 PM
  #34  
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Except in cases where the actor is operating in a professional capacity as an agent for the principle. This brings in the potential for damages caused by their lack of professionalism in a agency relationship.

Frex; If I want to buy an airplane, and I have an A&P who has 25 years experience with that type of plane perform a PPI, and soon after the plane is ground due to a long term issue like corrosion or low compression on multiple cylinders, the A&P would be and is liable for more than the cost of the inspection.

Ask me how I know this.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:32 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Really View Post
Well, slow down guys. I'm still weighing my options and it is quite a stylish ride. I'd like to get it back on the road in short order. I'm leaning toward repair or replace. I'm in need of good information to make an informed decision.

So I spent a good part of the afternoon yesterday hanging out with my mechanic. We pulled the plugs out and immediately noticed that it had popped a valve spring and shot a hole right through the aluminum housing.

So I suppose my question here is aside from the #1 head, the valve, and the housing, what other damage might I expect to find and what is a good approach to assess from the motor whether a repair or replace is in order?
Signs of valve timing having changed enough to cause valves and pistons to come into contact and enough to shove a valve (stem?) through some aluminum housing brings with it the very real possibility of a whole slew of other damage.

So, to state the obvious, the engine will have to be removed and torn down.

Initially the tear down will be partial, enough to inspect the engine for signs of debris on the clean side of the oil system. This includes the scavenge pumps and under the camshaft covers. (There might be more details on LN's web site that covers a pre-LN IMSB retrofit inspection of an engine to determine if it is a good candidate for this procedure.)

Each valve and piston will have to be checked for signs of contact. The valves probably should be removed and checked for signs of a bent head.

For each cylinder's piston or valve that shows signs of contact the rod should be checked for any signs of bending.

The crankshaft needs to be checked for straightness. (IIRC there is a recommendation from knowledgeable sources to check it for cracks, too.)

In short, the engine really requires a thorough going over to 1) determine if the engine is worth getting a thorough going over; 2) find and address any direct or collateral damage arising from the suspected valve/piston contact. Pre-existing conditions should also be checked for, like -- for example -- bore ovalness, main or rod bearing wear, excessive crankshaft end play, the condition of the cam lobes and lifter buckets, and so on.

Some things might be best renewed even if they do not show signs of any issues I'm thinking of the chain tensioners -- one of which I suspect failed and this caused the valve timing to change -- and the chain guides/rails, to name just a couple of things.

Might point out the above is just a back of the envelop coverage. The few times I have been faced with an engine torn down and me going to rebuild it the engine was sound, just maybe worn, but not damaged in any way. Thus for many things I could assume since the engine was running fine before hand there was no need to expend extra time (or money) to say check the rods for straightness. I checked the crank for straightness just for the experience but bearing shells did not show any signs of a problem in this area and the crank main and rod journal diameters were all well within tolerance. In one case I reused the pistons though I roughed up the cylinder walls with a hone to help the new rings seat.

But you can't give your engine a back of the envelope coverage as it has obviously suffered some internal failure and you need to be sure you have an engine worth repairing and if so that you repair it right, the first time. There is generally no second chance.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:10 PM
  #36  
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Sorry to hear you had engine failure. It does sound a bit like the IMS Bearing Failure, but until it's apart, who knows... I know that must be frustrating!

I'm at Vision Motorsports in SoCal for an oil service today. I know they do a lot of motor rebuilds & swaps. I asked if there were any 2.7L 986's for you & there are 2 on the shelf, ready to go (fully rebuilt with IMS updates). Their shop number is 949.770.2888.

Good luck, whatever you decide!



Rebuilt engines
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:00 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by HauteWheels View Post
Sorry to hear you had engine failure. It does sound a bit like the IMS Bearing Failure, but until it's apart, who knows... I know that must be frustrating!

I'm at Vision Motorsports in SoCal for an oil service today. I know they do a lot of motor rebuilds & swaps. I asked if there were any 2.7L 986's for you & there are 2 on the shelf, ready to go (fully rebuilt with IMS updates). Their shop number is 949.770.2888.

Good luck, whatever you decide!



Rebuilt engines
Laura Taeger
Vision Motorsports, Inc.

Are you saying you no longer work there??
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:11 PM
  #38  
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Salvaged motors from https://www.partsheaven.com/ will cost you around 7-8 grand.
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:59 PM
  #39  
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Check for signs of a Guardian install. Many people will get a guarian alarm, remove the guardian and then sell the car to an unsuspecting buyer. If thats the case, then you have a clear cut case of fraud against the seller.

Check with Jake Raby to see if he has a record of a sale to the guy who sold you the car.
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Old 09-23-2014, 04:27 PM
  #40  
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If your in the Tampa area have Harry take a look at it:
http://westsideautobarn.com/

He's in New Port Richey and very reasonable.
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Old 09-24-2014, 02:22 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Byprodriver View Post


Are you saying you no longer work there??
??? Vision Motorsports services my car. They have for over 3 years now. Before that I took my car to GMG.
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Old 09-24-2014, 02:36 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by HauteWheels View Post
??? Vision Motorsports services my car. They have for over 3 years now. Before that I took my car to GMG.
Are you saying you no longer work there??
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Old 09-25-2014, 03:22 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Byprodriver View Post
Are you saying you no longer work there??
I don't work there.
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:12 PM
  #44  
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Well, I just wanted to thank you guys for your help and advice up to this point. Hopefully I'll have more time next week to address all of this more thoroughly, but I still don't know the precise cause of the failure. We've got the motor out and I'm still assessing the core value. In the meantime, here are the pics!

M96 '03, 58k
Attached Images     
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:19 PM
  #45  
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been there. one choice IMO since your car is tiptronic. find a cheap used engine & swap it out. can be done for under $3k pretty easily if you DIY.

**edit - didn't realize this post was 3 pages long.....I'm a little slow
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