crossing the miata/boxster divide?
#1
crossing the miata/boxster divide?
currently have a 2006 miata,touring,stock with 19k miles. I have been looking at a 07 boxster,4300miles,from a porsche dealer with 1 1/2 yr left on certified status,$32k. if you have experience going from a miata to bboxster or viceversa I would appreciate appreciate your thoughts on advantages/disadvantages of your switch.thanks.
#2
Even though they are the same, basic premise (two seat roadster), I find them very different cars.
We have a Miata NA (was daughter's, now son's) and I have tons of seat time in NB and NC's. I picked up my 986 Boxster S a few months ago. The only missing experience is in the 987, which I've only test driven.
Having said that, the Porsche is dynamically very different, due to the flat 6 vs. inline 4, mid engine vs front engine and the Boxster weighing a good amount more. From a comfort/convenience perspective, the Miata feels less substantial or lighter and built to a lower price point...which makes sense, as it is. On the freeway, the Porsche is much, much more relaxed and it is far easier to find yourself 20-30mph over the posted limit...the P-car just has more legs. In backroad driving, the Miata may, in many ways, be more satisfying, mostly because the oem handling balance gives more options than the Porsche and that lighter weight makes it feel a little more tossable. But, the offset is the Miata is very undersprung from the factory and suffers from far too much body roll (which is an easy fix).
Both great cars, but hard to compare as apples to apples, as the Porsche is really a step up the food chain...and you pay for that move up, both on the front end and long term, as the Miata's cost of ownership over 50-100k miles will be significantly less.
We have a Miata NA (was daughter's, now son's) and I have tons of seat time in NB and NC's. I picked up my 986 Boxster S a few months ago. The only missing experience is in the 987, which I've only test driven.
Having said that, the Porsche is dynamically very different, due to the flat 6 vs. inline 4, mid engine vs front engine and the Boxster weighing a good amount more. From a comfort/convenience perspective, the Miata feels less substantial or lighter and built to a lower price point...which makes sense, as it is. On the freeway, the Porsche is much, much more relaxed and it is far easier to find yourself 20-30mph over the posted limit...the P-car just has more legs. In backroad driving, the Miata may, in many ways, be more satisfying, mostly because the oem handling balance gives more options than the Porsche and that lighter weight makes it feel a little more tossable. But, the offset is the Miata is very undersprung from the factory and suffers from far too much body roll (which is an easy fix).
Both great cars, but hard to compare as apples to apples, as the Porsche is really a step up the food chain...and you pay for that move up, both on the front end and long term, as the Miata's cost of ownership over 50-100k miles will be significantly less.
#3
I have never owned a Miata....but
But i find myself looking at the TCO of a Miata for track use (autoX, track days, spec racing) and asking"how can one not like this?". Cheap to buy; cheap to maintain, lots of parts, fun to drive....
That said, the Boxster is much more car. Its actually a terrific DD, and remains comfortable for long trips. I've driven it 525 miles to Alton VA, 510 Miles to Lexington OH, 500 miles to Bethel ME, etc - and its nearly relaxing.
Mid engine dynamics are different from MX5. Not better, not worse, different. great turn in. Beware if it rotates more than about 30 deg though!
Maint much higher. Potential issues with M96 motors (IMS). Aside from that Boxsters are, IMO, very durable. Stand up to track use remarkably well, especially if you leave them mostly alone.
Grant
That said, the Boxster is much more car. Its actually a terrific DD, and remains comfortable for long trips. I've driven it 525 miles to Alton VA, 510 Miles to Lexington OH, 500 miles to Bethel ME, etc - and its nearly relaxing.
Mid engine dynamics are different from MX5. Not better, not worse, different. great turn in. Beware if it rotates more than about 30 deg though!
Maint much higher. Potential issues with M96 motors (IMS). Aside from that Boxsters are, IMO, very durable. Stand up to track use remarkably well, especially if you leave them mostly alone.
Grant
currently have a 2006 miata,touring,stock with 19k miles. I have been looking at a 07 boxster,4300miles,from a porsche dealer with 1 1/2 yr left on certified status,$32k. if you have experience going from a miata to bboxster or viceversa I would appreciate appreciate your thoughts on advantages/disadvantages of your switch.thanks.
#4
I've owned five NA Miatas. They ranged in mileage from 39K to 212K. One of the things that impressed me was that there was very little difference between the low- and high-mileage cars. Miatas stand up amazingly well. They're also very simple and inexpensive to work on. Anyone who's reasonably adept mechanically can maintain his own Miata, including changing the timing belt.
I now own a 2001 Boxster S, and I like it a lot, but it has several failings that, to me, make it less desirable than the Miata NA or NB (I've had no experience with later Miatas). Ergonomics are better in the Miata. In my Boxster, I can't push the seat back far enough to stretch my legs. My Miatas were more comfortable in that regard; had more legroom. Also, the Boxster dashtop reflects in the windshield (my car has a light tan interior).
And, of course, it's a lot harder to work on the Boxster. I own a lift, and that makes it easier, but even so, simple maintenance like changing the plugs, the air filter--things like that--discourage the home mechanic. I have installed a new water pump in my Boxster; also the serpentine belt and front engine mount. Those weren't difficult repairs, but they would have been easier and the parts less expensive for the Miata.
I enjoyed driving my Miatas. The Boxster accelerates more quickly, has a greater top speed (which is unusable for practical purposes) and perhaps handles a little better, but I feel the Miatas had more personality, cooperated more willingly with me as a driver and were a bit more fun generally.
As for safety, both are probably equally vulnerable. If a person feels safer in a Boxster, I think he's fooling himself. The trick is not to hit or be hit, and I've been lucky in that regard.
Dollar for dollar, the Miata wins hands down. For status and prestige, if you need those, it's the Boxster. I bought my Boxster S because it was cheap at the time and I wanted to learn from it. I'd originally planned to keep it six months and then sell it again, but it's been such a nice car that I've owned it for 3+ years now. I've been hanging onto it until I find a Lotus Elise. I know--frying pan into fire--but what the heck. These cars appeal to the emotions, so I try not to over-analyze.
I now own a 2001 Boxster S, and I like it a lot, but it has several failings that, to me, make it less desirable than the Miata NA or NB (I've had no experience with later Miatas). Ergonomics are better in the Miata. In my Boxster, I can't push the seat back far enough to stretch my legs. My Miatas were more comfortable in that regard; had more legroom. Also, the Boxster dashtop reflects in the windshield (my car has a light tan interior).
And, of course, it's a lot harder to work on the Boxster. I own a lift, and that makes it easier, but even so, simple maintenance like changing the plugs, the air filter--things like that--discourage the home mechanic. I have installed a new water pump in my Boxster; also the serpentine belt and front engine mount. Those weren't difficult repairs, but they would have been easier and the parts less expensive for the Miata.
I enjoyed driving my Miatas. The Boxster accelerates more quickly, has a greater top speed (which is unusable for practical purposes) and perhaps handles a little better, but I feel the Miatas had more personality, cooperated more willingly with me as a driver and were a bit more fun generally.
As for safety, both are probably equally vulnerable. If a person feels safer in a Boxster, I think he's fooling himself. The trick is not to hit or be hit, and I've been lucky in that regard.
Dollar for dollar, the Miata wins hands down. For status and prestige, if you need those, it's the Boxster. I bought my Boxster S because it was cheap at the time and I wanted to learn from it. I'd originally planned to keep it six months and then sell it again, but it's been such a nice car that I've owned it for 3+ years now. I've been hanging onto it until I find a Lotus Elise. I know--frying pan into fire--but what the heck. These cars appeal to the emotions, so I try not to over-analyze.
#5
As to repairs, in general, yes, but...
Some of your examples beg further comments....
Plugs are a PITA. Agree. Although on a lift not too bad.
Air filter? Beyond simple - in a pull out tray.
Serp belt? 12 minutes once the panel was off. And that's easy too.
Water pump - only issue is complex burping procedure, so I guess you have a point there - but its not the H20 pumt that's hard, its getting tall the air out
My 986 is an easier car to service than, say, my Audi.
I also find it significantly more comfortable than the Miata - but I fit -- apparently you don't, at least not well. One must "try cars on for size"
Bear in mind, I like the Miata and said so. Its great dollar-for-value. but some of your comments made (really!) easy tasks sound hard. For annoyingly hard let's discuss A-O-S, wheel bearings, non-servicable drive shafts (not hard, but expensive), parts prices in general.
Grant
Plugs are a PITA. Agree. Although on a lift not too bad.
Air filter? Beyond simple - in a pull out tray.
Serp belt? 12 minutes once the panel was off. And that's easy too.
Water pump - only issue is complex burping procedure, so I guess you have a point there - but its not the H20 pumt that's hard, its getting tall the air out
My 986 is an easier car to service than, say, my Audi.
I also find it significantly more comfortable than the Miata - but I fit -- apparently you don't, at least not well. One must "try cars on for size"
Bear in mind, I like the Miata and said so. Its great dollar-for-value. but some of your comments made (really!) easy tasks sound hard. For annoyingly hard let's discuss A-O-S, wheel bearings, non-servicable drive shafts (not hard, but expensive), parts prices in general.
Grant
And, of course, it's a lot harder to work on the Boxster. I own a lift, and that makes it easier, but even so, simple maintenance like changing the plugs, the air filter--things like that--discourage the home mechanic. I have installed a new water pump in my Boxster; also the serpentine belt and front engine mount. Those weren't difficult repairs, but they would have been easier and the parts less expensive for the Miata.
#6
I would agree on the comfort comments. I'm 5'11" and the Boxster is more comfortable than any NA, NB or NC Miata I've spent time in, mostly due to the seats being better and the wheel/pedal relationship working better for me. Also, for real world use, the Porsche's more relaxed drivetrain adds big time to the comfort factor. Miatae are pretty frantic at anything over 70mph.
They're both great designs and great cars, but I don't think they really are meant to address the same part of the sports car market.
They're both great designs and great cars, but I don't think they really are meant to address the same part of the sports car market.
#7
I spent 15 hours in my 986 in a single day once, couldn't tell I'd been in a car that long when I was done. I'm not sure how one could fit in a Miata but not in a Boxster. As far as maintenance goes, 20k+ miles for me over 16 months and all I've had to do are oil changes and the accessory belt, totaling about $200. Is this more than a Miata would cost over that same period and mileage range? (~40k-~65k) Sure, but spread out over that time period, the difference is hardly noticeable. But there are three cost things that are significant- gas, tires, and when something breaks. However, I feel it's worth the price of admission for anything but a dedicated track car, and even then it's a toss up. The Boxster is so much more car than any Miata I've spent time in (NAs and an NC).
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#8
very different cars.
The Boxster is bigger than most non-Boxster owners realize. Park it next to a 996 Carrera and the length is not that far off. Actually I think the aero skirting for the Boxster is longer than the Carrera. The inside is exactly the same as the Carrera minus the two seats for dwafs or amputees in the back. The seats, dash, doors, windows are the same parts bin. Only the gauge cluster stands out as different. So in this regard you don't really feel like your sitting in a roadster the same way as sitting in the Miata.
The other thing to is the gear box. You do a ton more shifting in the Miata than you do in the Boxster. That Miata is a lot more fun to drive that way. And of course you're far more insulated from the speed in a Boxster than a Miata where you really feel the speed once you're going over 70 mph. For this I consider the Boxster to be a much, much safer car.
That being said, the Boxster's extra power makes acceleration out of corners and off of braking to be very different than the Miata. Particularly in the S models. With the engine in the middle it's a whole different experience. Sometimes, like when the ground is wet, it can catch you off guard so you have to take it easy at first when driving this car. I had a few seasons of autocross under my belt when I first drove the Boxster and still manage to rotate it a full 180 from a standstill one rainy day. I was facing the wrong direction in the wrong lane. Good think I didn't panic, another thing you learn in autocross.
p.s.
I've spent well over $12K keeping my Boxster up over the last 80K miles (granted this includes upgrades when it was time to replace something). Major maintenance does not come cheap. Most of that was parts by the way. Only a small part was labor. Budget about $2K a year and keep it reserve if you don't end up spending anything in given year. You want to find a well known independent Porsche specialist if you plan to keep the car out of warranty for the long term. Don't bother with aftermarket warranties. The fine print makes all of them useless or unrealistic to make a claim.
The Boxster is bigger than most non-Boxster owners realize. Park it next to a 996 Carrera and the length is not that far off. Actually I think the aero skirting for the Boxster is longer than the Carrera. The inside is exactly the same as the Carrera minus the two seats for dwafs or amputees in the back. The seats, dash, doors, windows are the same parts bin. Only the gauge cluster stands out as different. So in this regard you don't really feel like your sitting in a roadster the same way as sitting in the Miata.
The other thing to is the gear box. You do a ton more shifting in the Miata than you do in the Boxster. That Miata is a lot more fun to drive that way. And of course you're far more insulated from the speed in a Boxster than a Miata where you really feel the speed once you're going over 70 mph. For this I consider the Boxster to be a much, much safer car.
That being said, the Boxster's extra power makes acceleration out of corners and off of braking to be very different than the Miata. Particularly in the S models. With the engine in the middle it's a whole different experience. Sometimes, like when the ground is wet, it can catch you off guard so you have to take it easy at first when driving this car. I had a few seasons of autocross under my belt when I first drove the Boxster and still manage to rotate it a full 180 from a standstill one rainy day. I was facing the wrong direction in the wrong lane. Good think I didn't panic, another thing you learn in autocross.
p.s.
I've spent well over $12K keeping my Boxster up over the last 80K miles (granted this includes upgrades when it was time to replace something). Major maintenance does not come cheap. Most of that was parts by the way. Only a small part was labor. Budget about $2K a year and keep it reserve if you don't end up spending anything in given year. You want to find a well known independent Porsche specialist if you plan to keep the car out of warranty for the long term. Don't bother with aftermarket warranties. The fine print makes all of them useless or unrealistic to make a claim.
#9
very different cars.
The Boxster is bigger than most non-Boxster owners realize. Park it next to a 996 Carrera and the length is not that far off. Actually I think the aero skirting for the Boxster is longer than the Carrera. The inside is exactly the same as the Carrera minus the two seats for dwafs or amputees in the back. The seats, dash, doors, windows are the same parts bin. Only the gauge cluster stands out as different. So in this regard you don't really feel like your sitting in a roadster the same way as sitting in the Miata.
The other thing to is the gear box. You do a ton more shifting in the Miata than you do in the Boxster. That Miata is a lot more fun to drive that way. And of course you're far more insulated from the speed in a Boxster than a Miata where you really feel the speed once you're going over 70 mph. For this I consider the Boxster to be a much, much safer car.
That being said, the Boxster's extra power makes acceleration out of corners and off of braking to be very different than the Miata. Particularly in the S models. With the engine in the middle it's a whole different experience. Sometimes, like when the ground is wet, it can catch you off guard so you have to take it easy at first when driving this car. I had a few seasons of autocross under my belt when I first drove the Boxster and still manage to rotate it a full 180 from a standstill one rainy day. I was facing the wrong direction in the wrong lane. Good think I didn't panic, another thing you learn in autocross.
p.s.
I've spent well over $12K keeping my Boxster up over the last 80K miles (granted this includes upgrades when it was time to replace something). Major maintenance does not come cheap. Most of that was parts by the way. Only a small part was labor. Budget about $2K a year and keep it reserve if you don't end up spending anything in given year. You want to find a well known independent Porsche specialist if you plan to keep the car out of warranty for the long term. Don't bother with aftermarket warranties. The fine print makes all of them useless or unrealistic to make a claim.
The Boxster is bigger than most non-Boxster owners realize. Park it next to a 996 Carrera and the length is not that far off. Actually I think the aero skirting for the Boxster is longer than the Carrera. The inside is exactly the same as the Carrera minus the two seats for dwafs or amputees in the back. The seats, dash, doors, windows are the same parts bin. Only the gauge cluster stands out as different. So in this regard you don't really feel like your sitting in a roadster the same way as sitting in the Miata.
The other thing to is the gear box. You do a ton more shifting in the Miata than you do in the Boxster. That Miata is a lot more fun to drive that way. And of course you're far more insulated from the speed in a Boxster than a Miata where you really feel the speed once you're going over 70 mph. For this I consider the Boxster to be a much, much safer car.
That being said, the Boxster's extra power makes acceleration out of corners and off of braking to be very different than the Miata. Particularly in the S models. With the engine in the middle it's a whole different experience. Sometimes, like when the ground is wet, it can catch you off guard so you have to take it easy at first when driving this car. I had a few seasons of autocross under my belt when I first drove the Boxster and still manage to rotate it a full 180 from a standstill one rainy day. I was facing the wrong direction in the wrong lane. Good think I didn't panic, another thing you learn in autocross.
p.s.
I've spent well over $12K keeping my Boxster up over the last 80K miles (granted this includes upgrades when it was time to replace something). Major maintenance does not come cheap. Most of that was parts by the way. Only a small part was labor. Budget about $2K a year and keep it reserve if you don't end up spending anything in given year. You want to find a well known independent Porsche specialist if you plan to keep the car out of warranty for the long term. Don't bother with aftermarket warranties. The fine print makes all of them useless or unrealistic to make a claim.
#10
IMS/Clutch/Flywheel/RMS/rear axle boots ($$$), AOS, MAF, alternator, starter, coolant tank (plus cost of refilling said tank), shocks, control arms, catalytic converter (replaced with Fabspeed exhaust and headers), throttle body, 02 sensor, spark plugs, brake pads, bent wheel repairs, top repair, new windshield (time for another). Twice a year oil changes, alignments, air filters, cabin filters, serpentine belt, new battery, etc. Upgrades: 18" factory wheels (recently refinished), 18" tires, factory GT3 front bumper, skirting, Litronics, GT3 seats.
Car has been mostly garage kept.
Before I hit 70K miles I'd barely had any major repairs, in fact it was my least expensive car to maintain. Then it was one thing after another.
But with $40+K in the car after paying it off and upgrades, selling it would have been a wash and frankly the car still sets the bar in its class and I wasn't excited about jumping into a 987S for only a slight performance jump. The new 981 does not appeal to me at all. I'd rather give the Boxster Spyder a shot but that top...
Otherwise I'd rather try something different but as far as Carreras it would have to be 997.2 GT3 and that car just isn't practical for winter up here. I'd have two impractical cars. LOL.
Car has been mostly garage kept.
Before I hit 70K miles I'd barely had any major repairs, in fact it was my least expensive car to maintain. Then it was one thing after another.
But with $40+K in the car after paying it off and upgrades, selling it would have been a wash and frankly the car still sets the bar in its class and I wasn't excited about jumping into a 987S for only a slight performance jump. The new 981 does not appeal to me at all. I'd rather give the Boxster Spyder a shot but that top...
Otherwise I'd rather try something different but as far as Carreras it would have to be 997.2 GT3 and that car just isn't practical for winter up here. I'd have two impractical cars. LOL.
Last edited by perfectlap; 12-04-2012 at 10:40 PM.