reynwerkes

I have the opportunity to purchase an 03 S (mileage 30k) with blown head gaskets.
At least that's the least of the damage.
The current owner hit one of the radiators and ended up overheating.
Any physical damage was repaired and car starts right up but will overheat.
I'm thinking of taking a chance and buying the car (hopefully for about $6k or thereabouts) change the gaskets and end up with a nice S for very little money.
But there's a chance there's more damage that's unseen.
Any thoughts/advice?
Thanks!

mikefocke

$3k. If you buy the car you have to assume the worst case and there is damage from overheating that cooked the engine and you have to buy a new engine. Figure $12k for the engine, $3k labor. $18k for the car running.

reynwerkes

GTA_G20

6 grand is a decent price for an '03 shell. If it was 5 grand it'd be even better. I'd look for a complete motor if I were you. Many people think their boxsters need head gaskets, 9/10 times thats not the issue

seafeye

You should be able to find a motor for $6k. Maybe put a 911 3.4 in it?

Macster

Maybe if you're selling. Unless prices have come up a non-running Boxster in fair shape (not a rolled car or something wrapped around a telephone pole) is worth maybe $3500.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Macster

mikefocke has it right.

There are things you can to to possibly eliminate somethings but if you eliminate them the seller then knows the car's worth more and will want more.

There are some things you can't eliminate 100% and then as Mike points out you have to assume the worst and that is the car has a totally worthless engine.

The least riskiest path is to have dealer install factory sourced "new" engine which gives you 2 years 24K mile warranty.

(I remember one instance where an owner sourced a new engine from a Porsche dealership and then had an indy shop install it. However, the engine proved defective. The indy worked real hard to convince the dealer the engine was in fact defective -- he was successful -- but at what cost to the indy or the owner I'm do not know.)

There are at least up front cheaper paths you can follow but the risk is the engine you get from salvage yard borderline ready to blow or has blown and has been patched up. If your indy tech is good at evaluating engines and if the salvage yard has reasonable warranty/return policy you may only be out the cost of 1 or more (how many depends...) engine R&Rs until you find an engine that lasts.

Were I going to seek a Boxster with a blown engine I'd just assume I'd have to source a new engine from a Porsche dealership and have it installed by the Porsche dealership service department tech.

Thus you have to research prices of comparable MY and optioned cars as the one with the blown engine and then subract the cost of the engine replacement -- and allow at least 10% (and this may be low) for incidentals... -- from this market research determined price and this is the price/value of the car with a blown engine.

In some cases, if you go back far enough, the value could I guess be negative. IOWs, the seller should pay you to take the car off his hands...

Sincerely,

Macster.

reynwerkes

Macster, thanks to you and the rest for the advice.
It's so tempting but can't let my enthusiasm get the best of me. Have to be realistic!!!
I'm checking with the local dealer here to find out what a new motor and install will run me.
I guess this a huge gamble financially if I go for it. If I totally luck out it may just be the head gaskets. The worst is a cracked block necessitating a new motor. Talk about a huge swing in $'s!

Macster

Going over your first post "car starts right up but will overheat" does not sound like a head gasket problem. Especially in cold weather. Cold weather masks overheating problems rather well. It is the first hot spell of the summer or the first extended drive in high temps that bring out overheating problems.

(For instance, last July 3rd on my way east in my Turbo was driving east on highway 50 in CA climbing mountains on way to Lake Tahoe and beyond. It was hot (90+) and of course at altitude and the last 20 miles or to stop/go driving from the traffic. I lost count of the number of cars on the side of the road with signs of classic overheating. Dad standing in front of car with hood open, mom inside in passenger seat fanning herself, or sitting in shade on side of road on guard rail. Surprisingly, the majority of cars were BMWs.)

One possibly is if shop that did radiator repair doesn't know Boxsters it can have done several things wrong:

1) The cooling system in the Boxster is difficult to fill with coolant. There are two ways of doing this: add coolant, run engine until hot enough that t-stat opens, then add more coolant, repeat until all air pockets gone; 2) Use a system that pulls vacuum in cooling system (enough that rubber hoses collapse) then close of valve to vacuum pump and open valve to resvior of coolant. The low pressure in the cooling system pulls in the coolant and completely fills the system with no air pockets.

2) The resisters that help control the fan and fan speed were damaged and not replaced or just shoved/jammed in to some gap in the plastic around where the radiator is located and the radiator fans do not come on at the proper temperature. (Low speed is roughly 212F with fan shutting off at 205F and high speed if temp climbs to roughly 216F and again fan shuts off at 205F.)

IOW, a guick overheat is not usually a symptom of a head gasket failure.

You can pull the spark plugs, or have PPI tech do this. If there is a head gasket leak into a chamber one (or more) plugs will be distinctly cleaner than the others. Different at least. Coolant in the combustion chamber flashes to steam and steam cleans the plug and in fact all combustion chamber surfaces.

Also, there'll likely be coolant in the oil. Open drain plug eough some oil will drip out and see if there are any water/coolant droplets in the catch pan.

Remove the oil filter housing and pour the oil out into clean drain pan. Look for any droplets of water in this oil.

Open oil fillter tube cap and check for build up of dark brown deposits which is water and oil. A light colored build up can be normal for a little used engine but if build up heavy and dark...

Open coolant tank cap (when engine cold) and remove screen and look for any signs of dark oil droplets floating on coolant in reservior.

A headgasket usually doesn't fail on its own. I fails cause the head (or block) surfaces move. Generally the engine overheats, the head gets so hot in places the compression of the head bolts compresses the softer aluminum (soft from the heat) and the head is no longer held down as tightly as it was. A leak results.

If allowed to continue this leak can erode the head and the deck of the block. Even if the head and block surfaces are straight, flat, within spec, there'll be an area of erosion that will have the gap between teh head/block more than the gasket can accomodate and the new gasket will leak.

Generally a skim cut is taken of the head's gasket surface -- if the head is in otherwise servicable shape -- and a skim cut taken of the mating surface of the block so any erosion by the leaking old gasket is removed. Furthermore, any minor out of flatness or straightness issues are taken care of and the head/block surfaces receive a finish that will help hold/grip the head gasket.

The head once stripped should be checked for cracks in all the usual (and unusual) places. The internal freeze/coolant plugs will have to be removed and of course replaced if the head found servicable.

Of course, if the above needs to be done the engine has to be disassembled right down to its bare block halves, heads stripped down to.

After machining of course both have to be thoroughly cleaned and properly reassembled. The cost is a large fraction of the cost for a complete rebuild. The difference is the additional parts required and some additional labor, either done in the shop or outsourced.

You might get away with just a gasket R&R but if not then you could be looking at a big repair bill. A new head -- if the old one cracked or warped/twisted so bad as to not be usable -- and still end up with an engine with lots of miles on its internals. If the block has suffered too much it may not be reusable.

Also, while you have the engine apart you look at the crank main and rod bearings for any signs of oil starvation cause if engine got real hot the oil could have broken down and allowed metal to metal contact between crank bearing journals and bearings. If you find more than a tiny bit of this generally the engine's toast.

Sincerely,

Macster.

BostonDuce

Geeze Mac, I'm not the op but that last post is a gem.

I knew about 'motor mayonnaise" but that tip about the clean spark plug is priceless.

Thanks.

BD

smlporsche

I'm liking the possibility of an air pocket in the cooling system. A friend of mine had the exact same sympton when he had some minor damage to the front right quarter of his car the necessitated the replacement of the radiator. The shop didn't properly bleed the system and that was his symptom. He took it to a good Porsche mechanic and he properly bled the system and he was good to go.

If the initial inspection of the spark plugs pan out and there is no cooling fluid in the oil I think this is the most likely culprit..

Also on the cost keep in mind that the OP is in Hawaii and everything is more expensive there so the car may be worth that much in that market...

reynwerkes

Macster, whew, thanks for taking the time and jotting down all that info!!!
The mechanic that previously did the repair said exhaust gas is getting into the cooling system.
However, there's no oil/coolant mix in coolant or in oil.
I agree with your assessments of cost. They can start to add up quickly.
Sunset Porsche sells a complete engine for about $11k with a $2700 core.
Heads are nearly $3500 per side so two gets awfully close to a whole engine although heads aren't nearly as costly to ship as an engine and no core charge.
I'm starting to think the gamble isn't worth it.

reynwerkes

+1 on costs.
Local Porsche Dealer wants $16k for a motor. That's a nice profit margin.

THXBABE

I am betting on the system needing a burping as well.

Won't that be a cheap fix!!! $6K for an S and all it needed was a good burping???

Will the car owner let you take the car to a shop and have it checked out? Might be worth your time and the expense of the flat bed and a mechanic to find out what's really wrong.

reynwerkes

I don't think I'm going to get away that cheap with a burp.
It's already been determined that exhaust gas is getting into coolant.
But no oil/coolant mix which hopefully is a good sign.