DanaT

I have decided that I need (want) a boxster. I have now looked at some of them and prices are reasonable. It is winter here in CO so convertable aren't a big seller. Also, it seems that people are a little hesitant to let go of their money. In general the car market seems soft and impractical car even more so.

I am looking at early (say 2002 and older). What I am finding is asking prices between 13000 and 15000 for cars with around 60000 miles.

I have narrowed the search down to 2 cars. One car is $15K. 2001 boxster Has sport suspension, CDR220 radio with door speakers, 17 inch tires (near new). Overall very nice cosmetic car but appears to have some oil below.

Other car is similar but a '99. Asdking is $13K. Has a cracked rear window. Also tires are mismatched (snow on front dry on rear). Has nice 18 inch wheels. One thing I REALLY like is traction control on this car. Has same audio system. Not a drop of oil anywhere. Just not as nice cosmetically. Needs a rear light replaced and the center console hinge replaced. Independant shop said mechanically its one of the nicest early boxsters they have seen; its just a little cosmetically challenged. When I say its challenged, its not a POS, just not pristine.

I like the power (what little there is) of the 2001 better. Also the interior is a nicer design on the '01.

On the 99 the digital speedo readout in in the tach and in the '01 the digital readout is in the speedo. I like the readout in the tach better. May not seem like much, but I will be exporting the car to where I am required to have KMH and speed limits are strictly enforced. Also, winter tires are required by law in the winter (the 99 has two nice blizzacks so I would only need to buy 2 rears).

Was thinking of offering $10.5K for the '99 or $13K for the '01. Is the boxster market soft enough that these are reasonable offers?

Any reasons to pick one over the other?

-Dana

smshirk

If I were the seller I wouldn't take your offer. In fact I likely wouldnt entertain any later offer from you either. I sell Porsches quite a bit, buy even more I guess since I own 4 right now. Anytime I get what I consider a low ball offer, I never respond again to that prospective buyer, as I figure it's a waste of time. I always put a few hundred extra dollars in the asking price, but not double digit percentages. I would stay away from the one showing signs of oil leaking. Just my .02

buckwheat987

Maybe in normal times but right now there is nothing wrong with low ball offers and hard shopping for a bargain.

I read all the time now about sellers coming back to buyers after first laughing at their first offers.

DanaT

I am not sure on Boxster sales, but right now car sales are struggling. In fact, this week in USA today there was an article predicting around 6000 car dealers to go under this year. Even worse (for a boxster) is trying to sell a convertable at the beginning of winter. It also doesn't help that the DOW lost 300 points again yesterday.

On the '99 the offer isn't low balling him, it is basically reconditioning. These are both at dealers. I talked to the one today and he had no clue what a rear window cost to replace. This isn't a $100 fix. On this car they said they had someone else looking at the car but couldn't get financining. Many boxsters here have been on dealer lots for 4 to 5 months.

The other part of the equation is that people get emotionally attached to items and want a premium for them because of the emotional attachment. This is very prevalent in the housing market. People are emotionally attached to what they percieve the "value" of the house was a few years ago and are still trying to get that much. Problem is the buyer is the person who ultimately decides if something is worth buying. Houses have lost value. Cars have taken a hit. In general, the economy has taken a hit and many things are worth less than they were a few months ago.

I am sure that your 401(k) isn't worth as much now as it was 2 months ago. You could try and sell your stocks (or mutual funds) for what they were two months ago, but there will be no buyers.

So my question isn't what emotional value does the car have, but what is the market like. However, it seems that the '99 is the way to go if I can make the right deal.

-Dana

DanaT

If I low ball them and then they come back later, well I am willing to pay even less then. See I have this problem. I need to buy the car next week. If they screw around I will find an acceptable car somewhere.

-Dana

smshirk

Well, there you have it. Buying a used Porsche from a dealer, or anyone for that matter who has no knowledge of the car is a serious mistake. Buying a Porsche in any economy isn't like buying an ordinary car. You can easily spend more on maintenance/repair in the first year or two than the initial price of the car, especially a 99 Boxster leaking oil. My 401k has only grown 1.9% or so this year but the value hasn't decreased. It's called age specific diversification. I wish i could say that about my cars but cars always depreciate. I do understand the values very well, and since it's not a business for me, i don't have to deal with people who low ball me. You can certainly get a Porsche from a used car dealer, but it isn't advisable. Buying from an enthusiast, emotional attachment notwithstanding, is always the better deal in the long term. Enthusiasts do appropriate maintenance, care for their cars with emotional vigor, and it pays off for them and the next owner as well. GL with finding a Porsche, none of mine are for sale right now anyway, especially my O1 Boxster S. What a fun car, I just bought it this summer from the original owner who had every receipt, all the keys, books, and personal knowledge of every repair done by the dealer. He even kept soft copy records that he burned on a CD for me. He sold it to me rather than trading it to the dealer where he bought a new 987S. I expect it will is a good bet to be a reliable car. There are several books available explaining the process of finding a good used Porsche. Reading one could save you a lot of money and hassles down the road. BTW, i also had a 97 Boxster that I sold a couple of years ago for 12500. It was still a great car, didn't leak any oil, but had 107k miles. The top was new, all maintenance up to date, and was cosmetically sound, though not perfect. If someone had offerred me 10500 i wouldn't have sold it to him at any price. Many enthusiasts have the same mindset. If we needed the money for the sale, we probably wouldn't be Porsche owners in the first place. Usually you sell one to make room for another, at least from my perspective, which isn't all that much different than other enthusiasts.

bjzorn

I would go for the '01. It sounds like it will need a Rearmain Seal. But that is cheaper to fix than replacing the rear window on the '99(I window is not seperate, and requires replacing the whole top, about 2500 dollars for parts). Something to think about

Charlie C

Good luck with that..

smlporsche

I have been toying with the idea of picking up an early Boxster and turning it into a BSR car.
Most sales of 99 and earlier are going for 10 to 12K so I think your offer is fair.
There are many to chose from and the mechanics of the car are much more important than any cosmetic issues.

DanaT

I have found some german replacement tops for arond $700. There is also a hardtop on ebay for $1200.

I have also heard that the rear window can be replaced (but the top must be removed) by upolstery shops specializing in convertable top repair.

Looking through consumer reports, the 99 only had engine cooling and audio system that were trouble spots. Everything else on the 99 was either better than average or much better than average.

The '01s have engine major, engine minor and transmission major as much worse than average. But the audio system seems to have been fixed by '01

I think I will deal on the '99. The dealer already told me to make an offer what I think the car is worth.

-Dana

Joee

First - If you are serious about buying a Boxster get a pre-sale inspection from someone like Boulder Porsche and ask for Dave Petitti to do the inspection and talk to Dave about the car, it's worth his time as he is very very good.

Second - Tops are a problem. To replace the rear clear plastic window the top must be removed and then reinstalled, $ 600+ in labor plus parts. Given that a new top costs $ 600 I replaced the top on our '98 rather than just get a new window.

Third - Great cars and a great values. There will be higher than normal maintenance cost unless you can do it yourself.

DanaT

Who did you have around Lafayette do the top replacement? Where you happy with their work? How long did it take?

I am serious about the boxster if I can find what I want. I want traction control and most boxsters dont have this. Why TC? I intend to use this as a year round car.

Time is critical because I have to time this with a slow boat. I am shipping the car overseas.

Cost is an issue but it isn't. A similar car would cost double in Europe. So I am "saving" money. But this is a part time car that will spend half its life sitting at my apartment when I am not in the country. I can sell it when I am done in Europe.

Exporting has its own rules, so I must pay cash for the car. The boss (wife) doesn't want me taking too much out of bank accounts for a car. If little things like laws weren't an issue, I would already have shipped my current car there. Its just minor things like Fikse wheels aren't approved for road use. Too many modifications. So I need a stock car that is under 3.0L (taxes) that gets somewhat reasonable fuel economy ($8 gallon gas), is small enough to park, and is a car I like. A boxster fits that bill. The TC is nice because I may drive where there is snow and a 100% chance of driving in rainy weather.

-Dana

Joee

1. Award Auto Interior 2480 49th St, Boulder, 303 443 7445, $ 1300 in '03.
2. On the '99 be sure the top drives are the B drives. The A to B change was made some time in 98 or 99. The cost of the upgrade was about $1K for parts.
3. TC - not sure that is as important as tires in the winter.
4. Again, get Dave to do a prepurchase inspection, worth the money.....

racer

TC was an option on Boxsters, hence, not all will have it. I agree that a set of good tires and smart driving can trump TC, but if that's what you want, fine.

Tops.. Yes, you have to removed the top to sew in a new window.. figure $500-700 for this. Replacement tops with plastic windows (non Porsche) range from about $600-1000 plus install.. For a glass window updrage, figure $900-1500+ install. I recall an OEM porsche top is about $3500!

I say they aren't real Porsches unless they leak oil .. Well documented issues with '98-99 motors. Less issues with later ones, but still not perfect.

How do the cars drive? Do they feel like they need new shocks? Brake pads? rotors? Clutch? At around 60K miles you will need to do waterpump (seems they fail in the 60-70K mile range). Tires? Seems these are all potential issues for the "new" owner to address.

DanaT

The '99 has a new water pump. Mechanically, its great, just cosmetically challenged (and really not that bad just needs some cosmetic work. The window is the biggy).

They all drive well. I pushed them semi-hard. Never could get the cars to get near the limit but the one car I definately was past the sales guy limit.

What I liked about the boxster (but is the same thing I didn't like) is that the chassis has much more than the engine. Running from a stop and truning under full power the car never wanted to misbehave.

I know I am picky on the traction control, but this car will likely be in mountains in the snow.

The two places are willing to deal. The '99 I am close enough I should just buy it.

-Dana