Boxster/S vs. ???...
10-30-2002, 11:25 PM
#76
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This is a very interesting thread in a very sad sort of way. However....I can't resist.
I am lucky enough to instruct at PCA DE events and as such I get to ride in all kinds of P cars. I love em all. They are all wonderful cars with their own particular strengths. From what I can tell, the other folks who attend the events feel the same way because I have never heard any of the kind of BS on this thread from any of them.
Over the last 20 years, I've had a 914-6, a 944, a 968 and a 911 C4 which I just sold to buy a new 02 Boxster (not a Boxster S so I must be a, new to Porsche, know nothing, poor driving poseur). The Boxster shares the garage with a track only 924S race car which, with 158 HP is plenty fast enough for me on a race track. My driving skills are always challenged to get the most out of the car. It is better than I am. As to why people think they need more than 217 HP from a Boxster, I am not sure. Some $$$ spent on performance driving lessons would generally result in much faster lap times unless what you are really interested in is 1/4 mile drag racing and, if you are, why did you buy a Porsche?
One of the best times I ever had in a Porsche was instructing in a 928 S4 at Mosport (a very fast track). We did a few laps with Dwight Yoakum singing "Guitars, Cadillacs and Hillbilly Music" over the CD player. I sat back in the comfy seats and enjoyed the sporting ride, strong engine and fine brakes. I think I'd like to get me one of those cars sometime.
PS. Have a look at the 964 or Racing forums. People over there actually talk about technical issues and give each other useful advice. I think they are called enthusiasts.
I am lucky enough to instruct at PCA DE events and as such I get to ride in all kinds of P cars. I love em all. They are all wonderful cars with their own particular strengths. From what I can tell, the other folks who attend the events feel the same way because I have never heard any of the kind of BS on this thread from any of them.
Over the last 20 years, I've had a 914-6, a 944, a 968 and a 911 C4 which I just sold to buy a new 02 Boxster (not a Boxster S so I must be a, new to Porsche, know nothing, poor driving poseur). The Boxster shares the garage with a track only 924S race car which, with 158 HP is plenty fast enough for me on a race track. My driving skills are always challenged to get the most out of the car. It is better than I am. As to why people think they need more than 217 HP from a Boxster, I am not sure. Some $$$ spent on performance driving lessons would generally result in much faster lap times unless what you are really interested in is 1/4 mile drag racing and, if you are, why did you buy a Porsche?
One of the best times I ever had in a Porsche was instructing in a 928 S4 at Mosport (a very fast track). We did a few laps with Dwight Yoakum singing "Guitars, Cadillacs and Hillbilly Music" over the CD player. I sat back in the comfy seats and enjoyed the sporting ride, strong engine and fine brakes. I think I'd like to get me one of those cars sometime.
PS. Have a look at the 964 or Racing forums. People over there actually talk about technical issues and give each other useful advice. I think they are called enthusiasts.
10-31-2002, 01:35 AM
#78
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Oh geez I spent like 15 minutes crafting a really whitty response peppered with 
faces and then went to post and it said I exceeded the limit on icons in my message and all of my text vaporized! ARRRRRGH.
Well in reader's digest version:
928 owner started issues here
I disputed his ridiculous claims
More ridiculous claims were made by another owner
I MOCKED those claims with ridiculous claims of my own
Others failed to notice my faces and <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> in my messages.
I note a high degree of INSECURITY in the responses since my last message, what are other owners hoping to gain by posting here? I didn't know that puting down other Porsches was "cool", seems to me that you are trying to "win" an argument on the internet and there is that phrase about even if you do it is like the special olympics, you're still retarded.
Maybe I'm wrong and all the rest of you non-Boxster owners are just joking too, but if you are, you need to remember the smiley faces in your messages.
Now I'm off to polish my People's Choice and Concours awards from the German Auto Fest, and that's no joke! Or is it?
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />
faces and then went to post and it said I exceeded the limit on icons in my message and all of my text vaporized! ARRRRRGH.Well in reader's digest version:
928 owner started issues here
I disputed his ridiculous claims
More ridiculous claims were made by another owner
I MOCKED those claims with ridiculous claims of my own
Others failed to notice my
faces and <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> in my messages.I note a high degree of INSECURITY in the responses since my last message, what are other owners hoping to gain by posting here? I didn't know that puting down other Porsches was "cool", seems to me that you are trying to "win" an argument on the internet and there is that phrase about even if you do it is like the special olympics, you're still retarded.
Maybe I'm wrong and all the rest of you non-Boxster owners are just joking too, but if you are, you need to remember the smiley faces in your messages.
Now I'm off to polish my People's Choice and Concours awards from the German Auto Fest, and that's no joke! Or is it?
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />
10-31-2002, 01:41 AM
#79
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BTW, to correct the errors of at least 2 other posters in this thread, and you know who you are, I have NOT put down anyone else's car.
About the most I have done is to say that the 928 owner who said his car could beat ANY Boxster on the road was sadly mistaken. I also said in the same message that I liked 928's, so how that is puting down another car is beyond me....
Now go back and re-read your own messages and see how many of you have put down the Boxster and ask yourself "WHY?"
About the most I have done is to say that the 928 owner who said his car could beat ANY Boxster on the road was sadly mistaken. I also said in the same message that I liked 928's, so how that is puting down another car is beyond me....
Now go back and re-read your own messages and see how many of you have put down the Boxster and ask yourself "WHY?"
10-31-2002, 02:14 AM
#80
Rennlist Member
[quote]Originally posted by Ken2KS:
<strong>Oh geez I spent like 15 minutes crafting a really whitty response peppered with faces and then went to post and it said I exceeded the limit on icons in my message and all of my text vaporized! ARRRRRGH.
Well in reader's digest version:
928 owner started issues here
I disputed his ridiculous claims
More ridiculous claims were made by another owner
I MOCKED those claims with ridiculous claims of my own
Others failed to notice my faces and <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> in my messages.
I note a high degree of INSECURITY in the responses since my last message, what are other owners hoping to gain by posting here? I didn't know that puting down other Porsches was "cool", seems to me that you are trying to "win" an argument on the internet and there is that phrase about even if you do it is like the special olympics, you're still retarded.
Maybe I'm wrong and all the rest of you non-Boxster owners are just joking too, but if you are, you need to remember the smiley faces in your messages.
Now I'm off to polish my People's Choice and Concours awards from the German Auto Fest, and that's no joke! Or is it?
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
ken,
please try and stay away from references to things such as Special Olympics, and being retarded....there are those whom may have or know people who have special afflictions, and crude usage or reference to such people is not necessarily in the best interests of civility... lets just talk cars, technical issues, and ways to improve our driving without using derogatory terminology ok?
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<strong>Oh geez I spent like 15 minutes crafting a really whitty response peppered with
faces and then went to post and it said I exceeded the limit on icons in my message and all of my text vaporized! ARRRRRGH.Well in reader's digest version:
928 owner started issues here
I disputed his ridiculous claims
More ridiculous claims were made by another owner
I MOCKED those claims with ridiculous claims of my own
Others failed to notice my
faces and <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> in my messages.I note a high degree of INSECURITY in the responses since my last message, what are other owners hoping to gain by posting here? I didn't know that puting down other Porsches was "cool", seems to me that you are trying to "win" an argument on the internet and there is that phrase about even if you do it is like the special olympics, you're still retarded.
Maybe I'm wrong and all the rest of you non-Boxster owners are just joking too, but if you are, you need to remember the smiley faces in your messages.
Now I'm off to polish my People's Choice and Concours awards from the German Auto Fest, and that's no joke! Or is it?
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
ken,
please try and stay away from references to things such as Special Olympics, and being retarded....there are those whom may have or know people who have special afflictions, and crude usage or reference to such people is not necessarily in the best interests of civility... lets just talk cars, technical issues, and ways to improve our driving without using derogatory terminology ok?
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
10-31-2002, 05:59 AM
#81
Thanks for the clarification on the 'shark' reference to the 928. I can see that it relates to the front now. Just never heard it before.
Ken, I think the reason people come over here to bash you guys is not because you are Boxster owners, but because you guys use phrases such as 'talking smack' (Ken) and 'my old lady will smoke your C2' (3.4 i think?).
Peace.
Ken, I think the reason people come over here to bash you guys is not because you are Boxster owners, but because you guys use phrases such as 'talking smack' (Ken) and 'my old lady will smoke your C2' (3.4 i think?).
Peace.
10-31-2002, 09:43 AM
#82
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Christer,
When a 928 owner comes over here and says that "Boxters" - remember the guy can't spell - suck and that his 928 can beat any "Boxter" on the road, how is that not talking smack?
If I went into the 928 forum and posted that my Boxster was faster than any "Sherk" on the road, don't you think someone there would say that I was talking smack?
The phrase "talking smack" isn't puting down the 928, it is making fun of the guy who posted the message, which the admin from over on the 928 forum agreed with that the guy was a little out of control and needed to learn how to spell.
Somehow others got confused and thought I was puting down the 928, I was not, I was merely correcting the guy who was talking smack. Now if others put down the 928, then your issue or 928 owner's issues are with that person NOT me.
Harold -
Notice I did not say the phrase itself, only referred to there being a phrase that had something to do with people who argue on the internet are retarded. If you'd prefer that I said that they were stupid or idiots or whatever, then fine, that's simply semantics.
I agree with you the discussion here should be about cars, and not one where owners are bashing each others cars, in my OPINION that isn't very productive and isn't getting us anywhere.
A more productive discussion might be the following, only a suggestion, but something that maybe would lead to more positive discussions than negative.
If the majority of us agree that most 928's are faster in a straight line and at top end than a Boxster and that a Boxster is able to carve up curves with greater ease than a 928, and I think most people here have said that, then I pose the following questions:
1) How would you improve the cornering ability of the 928?
2) How would you improve the straight line ability of the Boxster?
Maybe that will give people something more interesting to talk about... just a thought anyway....
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
When a 928 owner comes over here and says that "Boxters" - remember the guy can't spell - suck and that his 928 can beat any "Boxter" on the road, how is that not talking smack?
If I went into the 928 forum and posted that my Boxster was faster than any "Sherk" on the road, don't you think someone there would say that I was talking smack?
The phrase "talking smack" isn't puting down the 928, it is making fun of the guy who posted the message, which the admin from over on the 928 forum agreed with that the guy was a little out of control and needed to learn how to spell.
Somehow others got confused and thought I was puting down the 928, I was not, I was merely correcting the guy who was talking smack. Now if others put down the 928, then your issue or 928 owner's issues are with that person NOT me.
Harold -
Notice I did not say the phrase itself, only referred to there being a phrase that had something to do with people who argue on the internet are retarded. If you'd prefer that I said that they were stupid or idiots or whatever, then fine, that's simply semantics.
I agree with you the discussion here should be about cars, and not one where owners are bashing each others cars, in my OPINION that isn't very productive and isn't getting us anywhere.
A more productive discussion might be the following, only a suggestion, but something that maybe would lead to more positive discussions than negative.
If the majority of us agree that most 928's are faster in a straight line and at top end than a Boxster and that a Boxster is able to carve up curves with greater ease than a 928, and I think most people here have said that, then I pose the following questions:
1) How would you improve the cornering ability of the 928?
2) How would you improve the straight line ability of the Boxster?
Maybe that will give people something more interesting to talk about... just a thought anyway....
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
10-31-2002, 10:04 AM
#83
Burning Brakes
In Germany where 'top speed' is a performance measure that is actually achieved (sometimes daily), the 928 was at or near the top of the heap (among German cars) for several years. Back in 1986, a 1987 928 S4 (driven by the late great Al Holbert) was used to set a new top speed record for a production car, at the Bonneville Salt Flats. After setting the record, Mr. Holbert remarked the car was so stable he was tempted to turn on the radio. 
Today there are a few production cars that can exceed 200 MPH, but back in 1986 the 928 exceeded 171 MPH, and remained as the 'top speed king' for a few years. To this day it's still faster than all but a few new production Porsches. YMMV.
BTW, The Devek White 1988 928S4 has been driven well over 200 MPH, and is also still street legal.
Today there are a few production cars that can exceed 200 MPH, but back in 1986 the 928 exceeded 171 MPH, and remained as the 'top speed king' for a few years. To this day it's still faster than all but a few new production Porsches. YMMV.
BTW, The Devek White 1988 928S4 has been driven well over 200 MPH, and is also still street legal.
10-31-2002, 11:17 AM
#84
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I'm sure it's not that hard to improve the cornering ability of a 928, Upgrading the suspension and other..
Now, how would you improve the straight line ability of a boxter? There's nothing out there that will dramatically increase the power of the boxter. A nicely setup 928 will handle great and it will have an incredible amount of power. NOw a nicely setup boxter will handle great, but still wont have an incredible amount of power. That's just MO.
Now, how would you improve the straight line ability of a boxter? There's nothing out there that will dramatically increase the power of the boxter. A nicely setup 928 will handle great and it will have an incredible amount of power. NOw a nicely setup boxter will handle great, but still wont have an incredible amount of power. That's just MO.
10-31-2002, 11:46 AM
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Silverbullet951,
How do you define "dramatic" increases? There are intakes kits, headers, ECU programming when combined get you 30 HP more which even in my opinion, and I have those mods, is not dramatic, but is certainly a welcome improvement.
There are, however, twin turbo upgrades, supercharger upgrades and even 3.4 and 3.6L engine swaps, any of which I think qualifies for a "dramatic" albeit $expensive$ upgrade.
Superchargers run about $7K
Twin Turbos about $22K
3.4L swaps ~$20-25K
3.6L swaps ~$25-30K
Horsepower and torque increases have been dyno'd to show anywhere from 350 to 450 HP at the rear wheels. In a car as light as the Boxster (~2800 lbs) that's pretty dramatic IMHO.
Of course the impact to the checkbook is dramatic as well.
Anyone ever tried to stuff a 928 engine in a Boxster? Could it be done?
As far as 928 handling improvements, can you expand upon what you were saying that they could be easily upgraded? What I am asking is what are the favored approaches to doing so? New springs/struts/sway bars? Strut tower bars? Different wheels/tires? Even if you went the whole 9 yards, I'm sure it would still cost less than swapping a Boxster engine, I'm just curious what people do to improve 928 handling and what sort of g's they pull or what sort of time improvements they've seen around the track, etc.
How do you define "dramatic" increases? There are intakes kits, headers, ECU programming when combined get you 30 HP more which even in my opinion, and I have those mods, is not dramatic, but is certainly a welcome improvement.
There are, however, twin turbo upgrades, supercharger upgrades and even 3.4 and 3.6L engine swaps, any of which I think qualifies for a "dramatic" albeit $expensive$ upgrade.
Superchargers run about $7K
Twin Turbos about $22K
3.4L swaps ~$20-25K
3.6L swaps ~$25-30K
Horsepower and torque increases have been dyno'd to show anywhere from 350 to 450 HP at the rear wheels. In a car as light as the Boxster (~2800 lbs) that's pretty dramatic IMHO.
Of course the impact to the checkbook is dramatic as well.
Anyone ever tried to stuff a 928 engine in a Boxster? Could it be done?
As far as 928 handling improvements, can you expand upon what you were saying that they could be easily upgraded? What I am asking is what are the favored approaches to doing so? New springs/struts/sway bars? Strut tower bars? Different wheels/tires? Even if you went the whole 9 yards, I'm sure it would still cost less than swapping a Boxster engine, I'm just curious what people do to improve 928 handling and what sort of g's they pull or what sort of time improvements they've seen around the track, etc.
10-31-2002, 11:46 AM
#86
Burning Brakes
Actually, back when I autocrossed, there were two occasions when my 928GT was FTD or second fastest of the day (to a well prepared 996). It does have an upgraded suspension, but that was relatively easy and not terribly expensive. (Cost for stiffer springs and Koni shocks about $1k, cost for adjustable front sway-bar and adjustable rear sway bar down-links add another $500. Wider wheels and tires could add another $2.5k. The total suspension upgrade on a 928 could be done for about $4k.)
The engine and tranny were and still are bone stock, but others have done some major modifications which can result in very dramatic HP gains. Getting more than 600HP to the rear wheels is achievable, although to do so requires lots of time effort and cubic $$$.
[FYI the GT's performance numbers are:
HP = 326, Torque = 317 Ft-lbs., weight = 3550#s, final drive ratio = 2.73:1, redline = 6750 RPM, 0-60 = 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile = 13.9 seconds, top speed = 173 MPH.] YMMV.
The engine and tranny were and still are bone stock, but others have done some major modifications which can result in very dramatic HP gains. Getting more than 600HP to the rear wheels is achievable, although to do so requires lots of time effort and cubic $$$.
[FYI the GT's performance numbers are:
HP = 326, Torque = 317 Ft-lbs., weight = 3550#s, final drive ratio = 2.73:1, redline = 6750 RPM, 0-60 = 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile = 13.9 seconds, top speed = 173 MPH.] YMMV.
10-31-2002, 11:55 AM
#87
Instructor
Christer - Regarding my comments regarding my wife being able to out-run you in our 3.4 Boxster. All were made in fun and due to the fact that you started it with a negative comment about Boxsters. My comment was merely tit for tat ol'chap.
As for everybody that comes here to dump on the BOXSTER please take your comments elsewhere.
This forum is the BOXSTER forum. Look over to the left and you will see the 928 or the 911/993/996 forums. Unless you own and drive a BOXSTER your negative comments here are baseless.
Frankly we don't care to hear about your sharks and oilpumpers and overboosted 951's. If we did we know where the appropriate forums are for those topics.
As for everybody that comes here to dump on the BOXSTER please take your comments elsewhere.
This forum is the BOXSTER forum. Look over to the left and you will see the 928 or the 911/993/996 forums. Unless you own and drive a BOXSTER your negative comments here are baseless.
Frankly we don't care to hear about your sharks and oilpumpers and overboosted 951's. If we did we know where the appropriate forums are for those topics.
10-31-2002, 12:03 PM
#88
Burning Brakes
[quote]
This forum is the BOXSTER forum. Look over to the left and you will see the 928 or the 911/993/996 forums. Unless you own and drive a BOXSTER your negative comments here are baseless.
Frankly we don't care to hear about your sharks and oilpumpers and overboosted 951's. If we did we know where the appropriate forums are for those topics.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Actually, it was one of your Boxster guys who made a remark and challenged us. That's what caused some of us to come here to defend our beloved 928s. If you don't like us coming over, then stop making comments that may be offensive or a challenge.
BTW, Please note that not one of my messages ever put down any other Porsche.
This forum is the BOXSTER forum. Look over to the left and you will see the 928 or the 911/993/996 forums. Unless you own and drive a BOXSTER your negative comments here are baseless.
Frankly we don't care to hear about your sharks and oilpumpers and overboosted 951's. If we did we know where the appropriate forums are for those topics.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
Actually, it was one of your Boxster guys who made a remark and challenged us. That's what caused some of us to come here to defend our beloved 928s. If you don't like us coming over, then stop making comments that may be offensive or a challenge.
BTW, Please note that not one of my messages ever put down any other Porsche.
10-31-2002, 12:28 PM
#89
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ED YOU ARE MISTAKEN.
A 928 owner came here FIRST and put down the Boxster, excuse me he put down the BOXTER (note his misspelling) A simple REVIEW of this entire thread will show that.
I went over to the 928 board and asked if anyone knew this guy and wanted to make the admin there aware of what this guy was trying to start, that he was talking smack.
I DID NOT CHALLENGE ANYONE ON THE 928 MESSAGE BOARD.
If you took my post as a challenge, YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.
Do NOT try to turn this around, the facts speak for themselves, I will NOT have someone claiming that I did something that I DID NOT do.
A 928 owner came here FIRST and put down the Boxster, excuse me he put down the BOXTER (note his misspelling) A simple REVIEW of this entire thread will show that.
I went over to the 928 board and asked if anyone knew this guy and wanted to make the admin there aware of what this guy was trying to start, that he was talking smack.
I DID NOT CHALLENGE ANYONE ON THE 928 MESSAGE BOARD.
If you took my post as a challenge, YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.
Do NOT try to turn this around, the facts speak for themselves, I will NOT have someone claiming that I did something that I DID NOT do.
10-31-2002, 12:31 PM
#90
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[quote]Originally posted by Ed Ruiz:
<strong>[FYI the GT's performance numbers are:
HP = 326, Torque = 317 Ft-lbs., weight = 3550#s, final drive ratio = 2.73:1, redline = 6750 RPM, 0-60 = 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile = 13.9 seconds, top speed = 173 MPH.] YMMV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My mileage varies, as does the weight of my GT: 3505.
[quote]Also posted by Ed Ruiz:
<strong>Today there are a few production cars that can exceed 200 MPH, but back in 1986 the 928 exceeded 171 MPH, and remained as the 'top speed king' for a few years. To this day it's still faster than all but a few new production Porsches. YMMV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
996 owners should rest easy. According to published specs, every 996 built has a higher top speed than any stock 928. I believe the 993 also equalled the late 928 top speed figures, so the 928 hasn't been king since 1995.
<img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
Curt - wet rag
'86.5 928 S - track/autox - der Fliegenschwein
'91 928 GT - grocery getter & king of the road
<strong>[FYI the GT's performance numbers are:
HP = 326, Torque = 317 Ft-lbs., weight = 3550#s, final drive ratio = 2.73:1, redline = 6750 RPM, 0-60 = 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile = 13.9 seconds, top speed = 173 MPH.] YMMV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My mileage varies, as does the weight of my GT: 3505.
[quote]Also posted by Ed Ruiz:
<strong>Today there are a few production cars that can exceed 200 MPH, but back in 1986 the 928 exceeded 171 MPH, and remained as the 'top speed king' for a few years. To this day it's still faster than all but a few new production Porsches. YMMV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
996 owners should rest easy. According to published specs, every 996 built has a higher top speed than any stock 928. I believe the 993 also equalled the late 928 top speed figures, so the 928 hasn't been king since 1995.
<img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
Curt - wet rag
'86.5 928 S - track/autox - der Fliegenschwein
'91 928 GT - grocery getter & king of the road