NetManiac

Tony: I'm kind of curious. You say that to compare the Boxster/S to the BMW or Audi is to "damn it by association." But you are willing to compare it to the Miata or MR2. The Miata and MR2 are far less worthy being compared to any Porsche, modern or historical. Why do you think the Miata and/or MR2 would be better comparisons?

Just so we can see what we're talking about here's some data I've collected:

[code]

575M 515 434 3815 7.408 8.790
Modena F1 400 276 3064 7.660 11.101
Corvette (Z06) 405 400 3116 7.694 7.790
996T 420 414 3388 8.067 8.184
Vanquish 460 400 4045 8.793 10.113
Corvette 350 360 3210 9.171 8.917
DB7 420 400 3914 9.319 9.785
996 320 273 3014 9.419 11.040
Maserati Coupe 390 330 3678 9.431 11.145
BMW M 315 251 3131 9.940 12.474
BMW M3 333 262 3415 10.255 13.034
XKR 100 370 382 3827 10.343 10.018
986 S 250 225 2855 11.420 12.689
CL500 AMG 355 391 4080 11.493 10.435
S2000 240 153 2809 11.704 18.359
986 217 192 2777 12.797 14.464
SC 430 300 325 3840 12.800 11.815
BMW Z3 225 214 2910 12.933 13.598
TT 225 207 3472 15.431 16.773
MR2 138 125 2195 15.906 17.560
Miata 142 125 2387 16.810 19.096
Honda Civic 160 132 2744 17.150 20.788
TT 180 173 3131 17.394 18.098
Camry XLE V6 192 209 3362 17.510 16.086

</pre><hr></blockquote>

The numbers are the horsepower, torque, wieght (lbs.), weight to power, and weight to torque.

I threw in the Camry and Civic just for comparisons sake. I was surprised the the Civic beat out the lesser hp TT.

BTW, you are right I am driving an S. And I'm not complaining. However, I was considering getting a regular Boxster until I realized I could afford the S. So why not? If I can afford it, why not take the extra performance? Maybe if I had the regular Boxster I would agree with you. But then again maybe not. I can't really say.

More $0.02,
/m

Silverbullet951

I'll admit, I started this whole boxter thing, and I'm sorry. I am a true porsche fan and I don't want an enemy on this board. I still feel that porsche could have done a better job with the boxter in many ways. They could have mabe a coupe version, they could have made a turbo version(even if the N/A version is selling a lot), they could have done a better job with the interior (now all new porsches have the same styling interior as the boxter). IMO the boxter is a great car, but it could have been an animal of a car.

Rocket

I've been driving an MY01 Boxster 2.7 for a few weeks now, I was anticipating a car of greatness following a road test in Autocar sighting the standard boxster 2.7 second only to the Lamborgini Murciolago as road/track car of the year.

Thankfully I made a brief visit to an airfield two days after having had the car, and in damp conditions set about throwing the car into a big open expanse of blacktop. To my complete surprise the first time I tried to slide the car it snapped sideways like a old 911, I couldn't hold the slide, steering wheel on the bumpstops, and the car inevitably span. With a few more attempts I'd managed to hold a couple of decent length slides and spun a couple more times, but left the airfield quite pleased I'd tried my first slide in an off road enviroment (you usually learn the hard way on the road).

This isn't what I'd expected. The car seemed to have very little grip in the wet, was very easy to get out of shape and had staggeringly poor levels of traction. How could Autocar rate it so highly, I thought..

So anyway I booked the car for an airfield trackday and after a days practice can say that the Boxter 2.7 is without doubt the most easiest car I've ever driven to put into a slide, and is an absolute joy to drive sideways upto and over the limit. You really can throw the car around. <a href="http://www.ags90.dial.pipex.com/993rs/movies/boxter1.rm" target="_blank">SIDEWAYS VID HERE (about 1mb)</a> or <a href="http://www.ags90.dial.pipex.com/993rs/movies/boxter2.rm" target="_blank">SPINNING VID HERE (about 1mb).</a> However the car rolls too much, understeers to much, the brake pedal travel on my car is excessive when the brakes get hot, the gear ratios are two wide, the powerband of the engine too narrow (but quite pleasing and adequate between 5000 and 7000 rpm with a decent exhaust note), there is no LSD!!! (this would improve things big time), the centre console bruises you right leg on track (RHD cars), and my crash helmet hits the roll over bar behind the seats.

My summary therefore is, its a fantastic car to drive sideways with a little practice, but is too soft and unfocused as a fast trackcar. To drive it quickly you still have to keep it very smooth and neat, and for the uninitiated its is an easy car to get into a spin. It seems to offer little in standard trim to the committed trackday driver, and could be a handful to many non trackday goers on the road.

Granted, the hood goes up and down nicely and the wife likes driving it too.

Rocket

M758

[quote]Originally posted by NetManiac:
<strong>I don't have a lot of time to write a long reply but a couple quick points.

Remember the Boxster is based on the 356 and 550 and thus has a lineage as long, if not longer than the 911. I may even go so far as to say the Boxster is more Porsche than is the 911. But I wont because that may subject me to a flame war unparalled by any in the history of Rennlist (and my Nomex isn't that good).
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Umm, The boxster is really more closely linked to the 914 than another other Porsche built.

Don't take this as a knock, just reality.

Years ago I though the 914 was a crappy VW.. Well watching those things Autocross has changed my mind. Sure the were underpowered, but still a great example of what a sports car should be. Hell the CG of the motor does not even go above my knee caps.

The Boxster is really the sucessor to the 914 in layout and dimensions. The factory rather link the Boxster to the 550 for marketing reasons.

Boxsters are fine cars. I have thought about purchasing one many times. Unfortunalty I keep getting stuck on the price / performance equation. Quite simply a 944 Turbo has one of the BEST price/performance equations in world today. For the price of a Boxster S I can have 3 Turbos, 1 for show, 1 for street driving, & 1 for the track and still have $$$ left over. Even with the age of the 951 I can get at least 95% of driving performance of a Boxster S. For me that is good enough.
This is not to say that the Boxster is bad. Buy what fits.

If you really want to know where they stand on the track.... Look at the PCA Club Racing Stock Class Classifications.

E - Stock
Boxster S
944 Turbo S
916
72-73 2.7 Carrera
75-77 930
84-86 Carrera (Euro/Club Sport)
87-91 928S4
944S2 (Club Sport/Firehawk)
928 GT
928 GTS
968 Firehawk


F-Stock
Boxster
968
944 Turbo
944 S2
C2
C4
84-84 Carrera
73-73 911S
81-82 911SC Euro
928S
87-89 Carrera

NetManiac

Silverbullet951: I don't know why you are sorry. This seems like a nice friendly debate about the pros and cons of the Boxster. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not reading enough into the posts and getting all offended because not everyone likes my Boxster. I'll try to get a little more emotional about it and start ranting and raving .

I love the 914 and always thought one of the 2.0L would have been my first Porsche. So, no I don't take it as a knock that the Boxster can trace it's heritage through the 914. But tell me you can't look at the <a href="http://content.eu.porsche.com/prod/cms/History.nsf/usaenglish/A93267EBF58AB364C1256B88007054C5?OpenDocument" target="_blank">'59 718 RS 60 Spyder</a> and see a Boxster? Even the very first Porsche, the <a href="http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/company/history/models/years.htm" target="_blank">'48 356</a> was a mid-engined roadster. So while the lineage of the Boxster does go back through the 914, it doesn't stop there. Whereas, the first 911 entered the market in '63 and I don't think it could trace it's herritage back beyond the first Carrera launched in 1955 as the 356 1500 GS. Of course I'm willing to be wrong if someone can demonstrate why that would be so.

Don't get me wrong I don't dislike any Porsche. From old to new; air, oil, or water cooled; rear, mid, or front engined; I think they are all great cars. I would be stoked to own any of them. I just happen to own a Boxster S.

/m

tonytaylor

Netmaniac

The MR2/Miata comparisom was for weight only - not as a comparison for any type of dynamic/performance reasons.

Ghost Rider

Rocket,

No offense, but I just watched both of those videos and the answer is a simple two words: DRIVER ERROR.

Hey it happens to everyone, don't sweat it, but those videos are not indicative of the Boxster's handling unless something is wrong with your car. You should have easily caught that Z3 in the turns unless he has some serious suspension modifications. Your line into the turn on the first video was too wide and turn in was too late and your throttle control in the second was off. Since you've just gotten the car and this was likely one of your first times out, I can understand it, like I said, happens to the best of us.

I disagree with your statement that the Boxster, even a 2.7, isn't a good track car, I've seen plenty of 2.7's that when driven by very good drivers will give a Boxster S a run for its money, I've even been humbled by one in the past (although I returned the favor recently.

Keep at it, keep practicing, get with a good instructor that knows Boxsters well and you'll be having lots of fun in no time!

Scott in Texas

[quote]Originally posted by Silverbullet951:
<strong>I'll admit, I started this whole boxter thing, and I'm sorry. I am a true porsche fan and I don't want an enemy on this board.... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Peace, man. No offense taken here.

lunchbox

The boxster "S" verses Ditka

Ditka

LastV8

Boxster owners the red headed step child of the Porsche family??? I thought that distinction was reserved for 928 owners.

At least at Porsche shows there's enough Boxster and 991/993/996 owners to start a brawl. There's never more than 4 928's at any given show except for the Phoenix meet last year where there were 10 or so.

Rocket

Ken2KS.....I wasn't trying to catch the car in front, but hold a big slide. It spun because of the change of surface from tarmac to concrete as the rear wheels suddenly gripped. It is incredibly enjoyeable to drive on the limit, but when it comes to power, braking, and body control when attacking a circuit it just can't cut the mustard.

There is absolutely no way that a Boxster or Boxster S (in standard trim) could lap a track anywhere near the speed of my standard 993RS, and seeing I have both at my disposal for direct comparison I am afraid I have to disagree about the greatness of a Boxster as a track car.

Rocket

boxsterfan

After reading through this thread, I would like to put in my $.02.

I am a first time buyer of Porsche last Christmas when I bought my Lapis Blue 2.7L Boxster. I chose the Boxster over the Z3, S2000 and SLK's because of two primary reasons:

1. I wanted to own a Porsche.
2. The Boxster was purely more fun to drive than the other cars.

Heck, the Mercedes dealer didn't even want me to get a manual tranny!!

I could have spent less money for more HP or more money on a Boxster/S, but the bottom line is I wanted a beautiful lookng car that was fun to drive, performed nicely on the street (I drive it daily), and gave me the pride of being a Porsche owner.

Anyone complaining about the Boxster should be taking a second look. In my opinion, if it weren't for us Boxster owners contributing to the success of this car and the bottom line of Porsche, you may not have a Porsche to buy in the future or your Carrera prices will rocket up $200,000 just to keep Porsche in business.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

BrianS

I have to chuckle a bit when I read some of these posts ... it sounds as though the fraternity is like the Hatfields and the McCoys! Just where does all this come from? Insecurity?

It seems to be a 911 crowd (a car with origins tracing back to the pre-War VW Beetle) against the rest, with claims that "those aren't real Porsches." Why? Because they have less power, more predictable handling characteristics, a mid-engine design, or Heaven forbid, water cooling?!

And it's the rest against the 911 crowd, with claims that they are elitist and exclusive. Then I hear that the 911 crowd feels looked down upon by neophite Boxster and 996 owners because the 911s are older cars! 914s are relegated to being called VWs! No one even seems to mention those fine (red-headed sibling) 928s. Fortunately for prospective Cayenne owners, they aren't likely to even care about these battles of pride.

A left hook here, a head fake there and a flurry to the solar plexus! The whole group goes down for the count!

I have been a fan of the marque since I was about 8 years old and got a Hot Wheels version of a yellow '73 (now you know how old I am) ducktail Carrera in a birthday party-favour grab-bag. I had no idea what that car was when I pulled it out, but I just had to find out, it grabbed me so! I've been a 911 fan ever since, but that didn't stop me for asking for a special highschool graduation gift from my parents many years later. All I wanted was a test drive (yes, just a test drive) in the newly released 944! My buddy (IanM in this forum) has a fantastic, highly modified 951 that is an absolute blast to drive on the local mountain roads. The Boxster handles better than anything else I've ever driven. And it goes on... These are all great cars, IMO, gentlemen (and ladies, for those of you lurking out there), and we all know it. The worst Porsche is better than the best from most manufacturers, so why all the apparent insecurity and infighting?

Perhaps one of these days I'll have to ante-up and become a P-car owner, myself, so I can appreciate this first-hand (fate has not yet smiled on me, so). Maybe that experience will provide an answer this age-old riddle, because from the outside, it sure seems strange. Let's see, now, make mine a ... no a ... or a ... Oh, l'embarras do choix! ("The embarassment of choice!" We should all be so lucky!)

Happy driving all you lucky P-car owners. One day I'll join your ranks (especially if IanM has anything to do with it!).

- Brian

K27

Well a tour of this thread has added countless more reasons to dump my PCA membership.

Ghost Rider

Rocket,

As most people say, the driver makes the difference, so if it isn't cutting the mustard.... well...

Talk to the 993S4 owner I left in my Boxster S's wake... the Boxster can be every bit as competitive as a 993 and then some... in the right hands of course...