Why?
08-28-2006, 10:15 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by mlambert890
There is a commercial aspect to all of this that cannot be discounted, however. I think threads like this really boil down to mid-engine fans saying "we want a Cayman with 911 hp". But would you pay for that?
The question is, would large numbers of people *pay* 911 money for something that Porsche is not calling a 911? Because as long as there is a demand for the rear engine platform, they *cannot* call a midengine car the "911" (as has been suggested by Cayman fans many many times).
...........
I think a lot of Cayman/Boxster fans really want a Cayman/Boxster with 911 power for Cayman prices. THAT isnt going to happen.
Does it cost more to hang the engine off the back? Is it the back seat that runs up the price? ....hint..back seats don't cost that much....Is there really a whole lot more cost in building the 911 than the Cayman? Or is it just the installation of the "image" that costs so much? Is it the "image price" that runs the cost up? The pathetic prestige seekers' willingness to pay the price is what "sets" the price. I guess that's what devalues it to me.
08-28-2006, 10:18 AM
#32
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Some of it is most definitly image, however Porsche does at least make the 911 the better performer. Granted, in real world performance, it's not a lot (if even noticable) over a Cayman S, much less any of the base middies, but it is there and it is real.
The saddest thing to me is Porsche makes the 911 the better performer by holding back the middies...not because they can't make the middies as good as (or better than) the 911.
The saddest thing to me is Porsche makes the 911 the better performer by holding back the middies...not because they can't make the middies as good as (or better than) the 911.
08-28-2006, 01:44 PM
#33
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Can anyone please name the component that causes the 911 to cost more than the Cayman?
Easy, the consumer is the component or better put is willing to pay for the 50+ years Porsche has invested in the Porsche brand and specific to this topic the 911. If you ran Porsche and could get a 50% premium for just thinking smart about the way you position your brand you would do so. Porsche builds very competent, stunning cars that command a price fitting all of that.
If Miata's were so vested you might be looking at a new one for $85,000 new. Neat huh!
Mike
Easy, the consumer is the component or better put is willing to pay for the 50+ years Porsche has invested in the Porsche brand and specific to this topic the 911. If you ran Porsche and could get a 50% premium for just thinking smart about the way you position your brand you would do so. Porsche builds very competent, stunning cars that command a price fitting all of that.
If Miata's were so vested you might be looking at a new one for $85,000 new. Neat huh!
Mike
08-28-2006, 05:07 PM
#34
Originally Posted by turbo23dog
Very interesting discussion.
As an 80 SC owner, I'm looking for something newer (w/good working AC) and tangling with the choice of 911 vs. Box S. This thread is helping sort out that decision.
I've already had this discussion with JSAINDC and definitely tuned into his selling of a base box for an 996 cab; I'd have thought the same way. I think the question from my end would be given a chance, would he ever switch back to a box/S after having his 911.
As an 80 SC owner, I'm looking for something newer (w/good working AC) and tangling with the choice of 911 vs. Box S. This thread is helping sort out that decision.
I've already had this discussion with JSAINDC and definitely tuned into his selling of a base box for an 996 cab; I'd have thought the same way. I think the question from my end would be given a chance, would he ever switch back to a box/S after having his 911.
Good question. Since I Autocross and not DE I would consider it. The power increases in the 987 are something to consider. Even the base Boxster has 245 HP for 07. I think my 986 was rated at 190. I have really started to fall in love with the 996. A month ago I was looking at a 987, but now I think I'll stick with the 996. Lets face it a 996 cab is not the best choice for an autocross car but it is very fun to drive. Another problem I have is that I am almost 6'3". I have a hard time fitting in the Boxster...a roll bar extension pushes the seat forward and I still do not pass a broom stick test. The 996's seat goes back a little further and reclines giving me the room I need. I hear the 987s have more room than a 986; however, I have not tested it out yet.
08-28-2006, 11:30 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Michael Jekot
Can anyone please name the component that causes the 911 to cost more than the Cayman?
Easy, the consumer is the component or better put is willing to pay for the 50+ years Porsche has invested in the Porsche brand and specific to this topic the 911. If you ran Porsche and could get a 50% premium for just thinking smart about the way you position your brand you would do so. Porsche builds very competent, stunning cars that command a price fitting all of that.
If Miata's were so vested you might be looking at a new one for $85,000 new. Neat huh!
Mike
Easy, the consumer is the component or better put is willing to pay for the 50+ years Porsche has invested in the Porsche brand and specific to this topic the 911. If you ran Porsche and could get a 50% premium for just thinking smart about the way you position your brand you would do so. Porsche builds very competent, stunning cars that command a price fitting all of that.
If Miata's were so vested you might be looking at a new one for $85,000 new. Neat huh!
Mike
Maybe a solution would be to create some sort of Carrera GT junior? Something possibly to replace the GT2. A high performing 450hp midengine car that competes directly with something like a Ferrari Challenge.
08-30-2006, 02:49 PM
#37
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Can anyone please name the component that causes the 911 to cost more than the Cayman?
As the owner of a Boxster , and a 993, I would have to say build quality. I have not been in a 997 , so I could be dead wrong here, but the 993 is a MUCH better built car than the Boxster. I love the Boxster for what it is , but it just does not seem to be built on the same level as the 993.
As the owner of a Boxster , and a 993, I would have to say build quality. I have not been in a 997 , so I could be dead wrong here, but the 993 is a MUCH better built car than the Boxster. I love the Boxster for what it is , but it just does not seem to be built on the same level as the 993.
08-30-2006, 09:06 PM
#40
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I think slider172 might be referring to the overall solid feel a 993 has. The solid thud when a door or panel closes. Less "tinny" sounding. I notice the same thing when hopping in and out of student cars.. 993 and older 911's just feel more solid. Afterall, 911's were much more "hand made" than the 996/986 cars that actually led Porsche to great profitability!
08-31-2006, 08:15 AM
#41
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Oh I agree with that...that the earlier 911s have a much more solid feel to them. And the '97-'99 Boxsters feel especially cheap on the interior, which is why I was asking. The '00 and newer feel better, but still don't quite have the same feel as the 964/993.
But considering Porsche would be out of business if they built their cars the "old" way, I'd rather have a "modern manufactured" Porsche than none at all!
Edit: Oh, and the newer "7" models definitely have a higher quality feel to them. I've not been able to compare them to 993s, but they are miles above the "6" models.
But considering Porsche would be out of business if they built their cars the "old" way, I'd rather have a "modern manufactured" Porsche than none at all!
Edit: Oh, and the newer "7" models definitely have a higher quality feel to them. I've not been able to compare them to 993s, but they are miles above the "6" models.
08-31-2006, 11:18 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Boxsterund914
Another thing... Why should an engine that has 3.8 liters worth of holes cost more than an engine that has 2.7 liters worth of holes.
Btw, I love it when people talk about better mid engine handling. Unless you race these cars, the engine placement means squat. Yes, at the very highest level of motorsports, the mid engined layout has become the defacto standard. But for the average joe, even on that does lots of DE, any platform will do just fine. I have owned & track 914s, Boxsters and 911s, and my 964 turbo is my favorite by far. It requires a very by the book driving style (as did the 914), but it is a way fun car to drive fast.
08-31-2006, 12:19 PM
#43
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Yes, Racer that is what I was refering to. I am glad to hear that the newer Boxster is of better quality, or at least has the feel of better quality. As I said before, I love the Boxster for what it is, but getting in and out of it vs. the 993 is a totally different feeling. The sound of the door closing on the 993 says quality!
08-31-2006, 12:58 PM
#44
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Because I own a Boxster that is my convertable - I would much rather have my 911S with X-51 over a Cayman S and YES I have driven both while down at Barbers Motor Sports...
If it came down to the 911 and the Boxster - again the 911 wins...
Again - just my opinion
If it came down to the 911 and the Boxster - again the 911 wins...
Again - just my opinion