Imo000

I never said anything about being able to JUST drive on them or that they have to be replaced. Sure they are drivable, but how good are they if the grip is less then optimal? A buyer should be aware that these tires will deliver less grip when compared to a brand new set. The tires on your 912 must have been hard as a rock to last 3 more years. Hardened, low profile tires are not a good combination.

FYI, Tigar is still being manufactured and I saw this with my own eyes last year. They are one of the lowest rated brands available in Europe. Readily available and commonly used in a lot of the non EU courtiers.

Go ahead and call me whatever you wish, the fact remains that those tires will not deliver anywhere near optimal performance. Every Rennlister has the right to know all aspect of a deal. Don’t you think?

Robert D

YES, you did say they are not driveable...not directly but saying tires are "too old period" implies they are unsafe. You may have good intentions to what you say, but you say it the WRONG way. The Tigar tires on the 912E were poor tires, and did stiffen up significantly. BUT they also were reliable for the 3yrs they were driven on (including autoX). Step off of your high horse for a little while as you seem to act as an all-knowing authority in some of your later posts. I have not once seen anywhere that tires have a stated shelf-life.

Imo000

Here is a link, perhaps you'll belive now! Scroll down to age/storage. Read carefully the part about spares. As I said before, if you don't beleive me ask a trained technician at you local tire shop. I only act like a "know it all" when I'm absolutely positive about a fact.

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/engl...0010501ts.html

It's funny how when I typed in "tire shelf life" in google, this was the first site that popped up.


Here is the site right bellow the first one. Read very carefully and note the estimated life span of a tire (6 years). My suggestion of 4-5 was not really that much off!

http://wcco.com/specialreports/local...320123953.html


Robert, do you still think I'm making this up just to make the sale difficult?

THX911

Robert, Imo000 is not trying to put off people from buying Elliot's wheels. He has a very valid point which applied to all modern tires which everyone should know.

Here is Britian we are always told to make sure you look at the manufacturing date of the tyre when buying; it is usually put down as week/year i.e. 0105 would be 1st week of 2005 and you will see this somewhere on the tire. When buying new always buy from dealers who sell lots of tyres so you know it is fresh stock. I personally will not touch a new tyre if it was manufactured more than 6 months ago but I would consider buying a second hand if someone is taking it off his car and has not been left in storage for a long period of time.

Sorry, mate but as Imo000 I am just stating the facts.

Robert D

From the first site: "Tread and sidewall rubber can crack, and the carcass can deform. Consult a competent tire shop about whether tires that show signs of age are safe." Duh, and these can be seen on a tire before mounting.

From the second site: "Experts say tires should be around for about six years." Personally, I do not trust articles without reference to who their 'experts' are. Second, these tires on his wheels are from a 2002 996. SO, being that it is still 2005 they would be ~3 maybe 4 yrs from manufacturing (assuming they are the original tire). Which means they still have ~2-3 years of use on them based on what "experts" believe.

Imo000

Robert, You just don't know how to admit that you were wrong, do you? First you said that shelf life for tires does not exist and now insted of admiting that you were wrong, you come up with this? I've only posted the first 2 sites I saw in Google. A little more research would give you all the answers you are asking. Do you still think tire shelf life is a myth?

Since you are so techical and picky. The tires ARE originals. It was stated in the first few treads (Factory ballanced only means one thing). Also, it is possible that the tires were in fact manufactured well before the car was made. If the car was an early '02 model it would have been made in mid '01. The tires were made before this and that CAN make them to be early '01. Since were are at the end of '05 this CAN make the tires almost 6 years old. Then again, if the car is mid '02, and the tires were made ony a couple weeks before, it can make this set only 3.5 years old.

To end all this guesstimation by everyone, why not just simply post the tire manufacturer serial number? It's located on the wall of each tire. All information with the date of manufacture for each tire is on there.

Robert D

The point I am making is, YOU PERSONALLY cannot call these tires unsafe because YOU do not know exactly when they were made or have you seen them. I do not completely buy into the proof you have provided for a set and defined shelf-life. A website which says tires age, but a visual inspection will show the signs of that aging (not true, only problems visual inspection will reveal are aging issues caused by exposure of the tire to UV/climate)...and a website from a news station claiming "expert opinions" do not convince me one bit. If there was a set date for tire aging the tire manufacturers would STAMP IT ON THE TIRE. Not just the day they were made. If you were in your original post to have said the tires MIGHT be unsafe it would have been a bit more accurate a claim (1) and would also not **** off the seller (2).
Some of your thoughts are valid. Tires will age when not used, I agree with you here. However, claiming that there is a set shelf-life is not true. If it was, than the NHTSA would have said something. Upon googling 'tire aging' I did find some information, and it looks as though the majority of it does not back up your claims. It seems the BRMS (British Rubber Manufacturers Association) has done studies and conclude that: "BRMA members strongly recommend that unused tyres should not be put into service if they are over 6 years old and that all tyres should be replaced 10 years from the date of their manufacture." So now we have 6-10 years, 6 is not the limit. From TireRack there is another interesting article which indicates there is an aging issue with tires BUT "when properly cared for, most street tires have a useful life of between six to ten years."

The tires in this post he says were kept indoors, thus the significant aging factors of UV light and temperature/climate would not have done the same amount of damage had they been outdoors.

I STILL MAINTAIN, after reading about this issue that you are out of line in saying his tires are unsafe as you have neither conclusive evidence or conclusive proof that they are unsafe. Currently this issue is still being researched and there are testing methods being developed. Good luck with the sale of your excellent wheels and most-likely reliable tires Turbohead. They are most likely not hard and dried out as claimed by Imo000.

Turbohead

Imo000

Now that you have totally trashed this thread and have been alarming people who might have been really nterested in my wheels and free tires,(of course not you),I have one question for you. What are the dates and serial numbers on the tires on your cars??? Tell us please....... . and get a life.

Imo000

I didn't trash anything. I should perhaps mention that there are number of rennlisters that PMed me, agreeing with my point. Some people are not confortable with publicly posting their oppinions, but regrdless of that, they do agree.

My tires are not for sale, so does it really matter what the number is? BUT if you really want, I can look up the 928s number for you tonight. In the mean time, my commuter car's winter tire number is BEC 4004 (40th week, 2004). I bought the set exactly one year ago.

Robert D

Again Imo000, it is not what you meant, it is how you went about getting the message across. Your early posts include:

"If those tires are from ’02 , they are probably hard and dried out....They are not just too old for me, but too old period....My intention was to inform fellow rennlister and let them make a sound decision based on all the facts…

Not only are these comments untrue, they are lacking a concrete base of fact.

(1) These tires are from 2002 car and have been stored in a garage so they are only ~4 years old and have not been exposed to UV light and the climate (2) Your informing a fellow rennlister to make a decision based on facts is void as you stretched the truth. There are no facts supporting these specific tires are unsafe. They have not been tested because the NHTSA have not decided on the best way to test tires. They also have not been exposed to the sun or even existed for 6-10 years which is what reliable sources (the BRMA and SRS) state to be the actual range for a tire on the road (in the sun).

Who cares if a number of rennlisters agree with your point? I do not dispute the fact that tires can become unsafe with age, but these specific tires are not too old! That is ALL! There is no source which says these tires lie in the unsafe range for a tire’s age. There is also no source which defines a specific shelf-life for any given tire. “Experts” would also agree different makes and models of tires will last different lengths of time reliably. So there is no conclusive evidence that these specific tires are TOO OLD. Your intention of alerting rennlisters of the issue that tires do age was a good intention carried out poorly.

If you had come out and said, "Those tires appear pretty old. What was the manufacturing date? I'm always weary of tires which are older than 4 years as I've read on the internet they are unsafe. If someone buys these I’d recommend changing the tires as they are probably hardened from not being used." It would have been a more accurate post and would be much less offensive to the person selling his wheels. Which, include the tires free with the wheels. What need is there to alert a potential buyer for about making a sound purchasing decision when wheels come in probably perfect condition with original tires? Why should the seller have to risk a shop scratching or damaging the wheels while removing tires when he is trying to sell them in the shape they are now?

Again, I hope you sell your wheels Turbohead.

Turbohead

Robet D
Thanks I could not have said it better. Like I said this guy needs a soap box and a new life.

DHL LMP2

Uh, sounds like Turbohead is selling nice wheels with free used rubber. Drive 'em for a while, save money for new tires, buy new tires. Sounds good to me.

Imo000

My life is fine just the way it is. There is no need for childish, highschool, name calling. You've been trying to sell these rims and tires for some time now. Maybe the looks have more to do with this than the age of the tires. This was irrelevant to the tire issue and that's why I didn't comment on it till now.

There is a really simple way of resolving any arguments over the tires. Just post a pic of the manufacturing date code and call it a day!

Robert is perhaps right. If I would have worded all the messages differently the outcome of this tread would be less harsh toned. But for some reason all the replies sort of evolved in this defensive tone. Regardless of this, this tread does have good information on tire life and expected shelf life. If others can use this to make their own oppinion, then it was worth the effort.

THX911

It is hard to believe you individuals, Imo000 point is just being overlooked by focusing on how he went about posting his views. Maybe it wasn't the right choice of words but his points are valid and apply to tyres in storage.

Can you tell me how you stored your tyres over this period? Were they stored vertically or horizontally?

This thread might just save your life as improperly stored tyres over long periods are very likely to blow-out on a high speed freeway drive.

Turbohead>>>What are the dates and serial numbers on the tires on your cars???

It is a bit silly asking Imo000 this as it is not relevant but I can understand you are upset that he has reduced the prospect of someone buying your tyres after reading this thread.

The main issue here is tyres which are stored and NOT ones in regular use. I understand you are asking this as Imo000 stated that all tyres have a fixed life but stay focus on stored tyres and we might get something out of this, otherwise this will end up as another 'flaming each other' thread and one which will die over time having readers and contributors even more confused.

tifosiman

Turbohead, you may want to consider posting these for sale over on the 944 BBS, as it is a good deal for someone with a post-86 car that is looking for a nice set of newer, larger OEM wheels. If I did not have an early offset car I would consider them myself.