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986 IMS project

Old 12-20-2018, 08:20 PM
  #1  
rpk55
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Default 986 IMS project

Hello all: My winter project is to replace the clutch, IMS and RMS in my recently acquired 02 Boxster S. Can anyone verify that the drive axle half shafts can remain in the car while I remove the transmission? It sure seems to me that the half shafts would be out of the way once disconnected from the trans and tied up out of the way. I would definitely like to avoid having to torque something like the axle nuts need to be torqued. I remember the nightmare in my early years trying to torque the back axle nuts on my Beetle.
Any comments will be appreciated.
Rob
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:56 AM
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Ken P
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Originally Posted by rpk55 View Post
02 Boxster S. Can anyone verify that the drive axle half shafts can remain in the car while I remove the transmission?
I am doing a similar project on an 02 Boxster, non S. I left the axle half shafts in while removing the trans and engine.

Last edited by Ken P; 12-21-2018 at 01:57 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:06 AM
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rpk55
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Thanks Ken! What bearing did you put in?
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Old 12-21-2018, 11:41 AM
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On the 944 the shafts are left in place but held at a reasonable angle with a rope or bungie cord so that the joints aren't at their limits. I am preparing to drop my Boxster's transmission and decided to remove the shafts. With my Mastercraft half inch breaker bar and a length of steel tubing I was able to break the nuts loose fairly easily... a bit of jumping on the bar was necessary. I did the same thing on my 928 which is torqued to over 300 ft/lbs. When I put the 928 back together I torqued to 250 ft/lbs (the limit of my torque wrench) and I check it from time to time... the nuts have not loosened. With the Boxster I may do the 250 then a bit more with the breaker bar and extension.
This week I spent a day rereading a lot on the IMSB replacement. I won't make a final decision until I have had a look at the old bearing. My original idea was to go with the bearing Ben Burner used. Then I realised he didn't update either the flange or the bolt that hold the bearing (the updated bolt is stronger and the updated flange has a better seal), and adding those 2 parts brought the cost up to about the same as the EPS roller bearing with oil feed. I really like the EPS bearing but it is twice the price of Ben's bearing using the old flange and bolt. So given the value of my car and my financial resources I am leaning back to Ben's bearing as long as the old parts look good. During disassembly I will pull the old bearing with a puller like the one Ben used rather than using the bolt as a puller and further stressing the bolt. Ben's bolt broke when he tried to use it to pull the bearing.
I hope this thread will not degenerate as so many others have... I would like to see an open and thoughtful discussion, which is rare when this subject is raise.
FYI - my 2000 Boxster 5-speed has about 115,000 miles, I have no history for it and so assume it has the original double row bearing. I do all my own work on my Porsches.
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:46 PM
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Ken P
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I bought my car as sort of a project. I did suspend the axles with wire to hold them up and out of the way.
My plan with this Boxster is to get my hands on it and learn more about it.
I do not think the IMS bearing or RMS have ever been looked at on this car. It has 105000 miles, the clutch was done at ~51k and needs to be done again.
My research of what bearing to upgrade to led me to go with the Pelican kit to get the updated bolt, seal and newer bearing. Although I do not have the kit yet and do not know the condition of my current bearing.
I have a great local bearing shop that I had considered just pulling my current bearing and taking it down to them to see what they had for a replacement.
From what I read about the LN bearing my car would not have passed the pre qualification, my camshaft deviations were not within spec. I will replace the Variocam chains and pads, hoping that will correct the deviations. And the warranty would not apply without professional installation.
I talked with my local Porsche dealer and they do the TuneRS Direct Oil Feed bearing.
I really like the idea of the IMS Solution, I think that is the right way to go, but the price is pretty high for the current value of an early Boxster.

I do have a 1000 lb torque wrench, I bought it years ago to tighten up the rear axle nuts on my other 928, it had a whine from the rear that properly torquing helped eliminate.

My biggest challenge with this current project is what prior shops have over torqued. The CV bolts were so tight I had to cut the head off of half of them and snapped the head off of one of my long allen wrenches while removing them.

I have almost no records for the car. I do have a carfax for the car that shows some maintenance, but no real details.
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Old 12-23-2018, 10:12 AM
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joseph mitro
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Originally Posted by Ken P View Post
My research of what bearing to upgrade to led me to go with the Pelican kit to get the updated bolt, seal and newer bearing.......I really like the idea of the IMS Solution, I think that is the right way to go, but the price is pretty high for the current value of an early Boxster.
I've been thinking of the Pelican kit also. If LN considers the bearing a wear item to be replaced at 30K, why spend the extra $500 compared to the pelican kit?

Agree with your second statement also. not worth it unless it's a race car or you plan to keep the car for many miles
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Old 12-25-2018, 03:37 PM
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Brian in Tucson
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I got a project Boxster summer before last. It's bit a money pit. Last winter, I replaced the relatively low mileage but overheated engine with a lower mile factory rebuilt engine off Ebay. Actual mileage is unknown and I can only go by what the seller told me. Engine number confirms that it was a factory rebuilt, tho. Mike Focke told me how to tell whether the IMS bearing was a later factory replacement, it was, so I didn't touch it and only did the RMS on the back of the engine. My knowledge of the various IMS brands is very limited. I would see if the 06 version of the factory IMS would fit--that was about the time that they seemed to solve the engineering problem of the old ones.

My car has a tiptronic, btw.

While I was replacing the engine, I had a seriously long "do while I got it apart" list. The car was only at 74,000 but the boots on the half shafts had perished. So I ended up removing the half shafts and rebuilding them. I have a parts washer so I managed to get all the old grease out and the kits for the boots included plenty of new grease. And the boots are nice. Don't remember the brand, maybe URO, but they were available from Rock Auto and weren't spendy. Replaced the axle nuts and washers at the same time--I torqued them to 250 and then with the breaker bar and a cheater pipe, I turned them a full quarter turn more. The flange bolts--they bolt the half shaft to the transmission were tough to get off. I think they were put on with loctite. When I put them back on, I used blue loctite anyhow.

Wish I did the AOS while I had it out.
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:50 PM
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Charles Navarro
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Originally Posted by joseph mitro View Post
I've been thinking of the Pelican kit also. If LN considers the bearing a wear item to be replaced at 30K, why spend the extra $500 compared to the pelican kit?

Agree with your second statement also. not worth it unless it's a race car or you plan to keep the car for many miles
The LN IMS Retrofit kits have a dual row ceramic hybrid bearing with a 6 year / 75k interval versus a 3 year or 30k interval recommended by Pelican for their kit which has a sealed OEM single row conventional ball bearing.
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Old 12-26-2018, 01:10 AM
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sorry, my bad. i misunderstood or misread something somewhere. thanks for clarifying
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:15 PM
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Thanks everyone for the input. I'm not going to do any of the pre-installation diagnostics as the car runs great, sounds great, does not use or lose any fluids and non of the lights are on. The clutch is feeling pretty tired and I'll feel better knowing the IMS is fresh. The oil I drained when I bought the car (3000 mile Mobil 1) checked out just fine with Blackstone in Indiana, and I don't really want this car to end up being a money pit. There are so many choices for a new bearing and I'm still not sure where I'll end up. Once I see what's in the car it will help me to decide. The LN and TuneRS are unquestionably the primo way to go. I temper that though with the value of my 02 S and the fact that the original seems fine after 60,000 miles and 16 years and would keep the car in stock form. I am also a bit uneasy sawing, drilling, and filing away the bell housing to introduce what could be another source of oil leaking as well.
I'm going to start taking the exhaust off tomorrow and see how far I get, and will give the Pelican guys a call soon too to talk through what they can supply in the way of parts and tools. The local auto parts stores where we live to not seem to have a puller that will pull the IMSB and I'll need to source or make the cam tensioner stays unless someone has a set I can rent or borrow.
Ken P's experience with the flange bolts kept me awake last night. I can't imaging why anyone would over torque those. I started on the exhaust bolts today just to see if a week of PB Blaster helped, it went well on the clamp bolts but one of the easy bolts on the flange twisted off. Tomorrow is torch day!
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:04 PM
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Brian in Tucson
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I may be misremembering, but I think LN will rent you the tools to pull the IMSb. That might require that you buy the LN kit. If I were doing this fix, I would go to the local Porsche dealer and ask them about the 06 IMSb. I'd also be talking to the local indy Porsche shop and ask them what replacement bearing they suggest (they will have an INFORMED opinion, btw.) I have a cam lock tool that I made, is that what you need? I used it when I had the valve cover off to replace the variocam solenoid. The lock tool bolts to the front of the cam cover and slots into one of the cams--holds the cam tightly in place. Then you can remove the cam cover without risking dropping the cam out an losing the cam timing.

If you were in my neighborhood, you'd be welcome to borrow tools I'm working on a very rusty, low mileage Dodge V8 and I have quite the setup for removing broken studs, drilling new holes, and tapping new exhaust bolt threads into a steel block.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rpk55 View Post
Thanks everyone for the input. I'm not going to do any of the pre-installation diagnostics as the car runs great, sounds great, does not use or lose any fluids and non of the lights are on.
How do you really know without a more thorough inspection using tools like the Durametric, Bore scope, manometer, etc.? Wouldn't you want to be 100% sure about the health of the motor before investing lots of money and time installing an IMS part? Have you watched the pre-qualification video that Jake Raby put out on installing the IMS retrofit and IMS Solution products? It's very informative.


Originally Posted by rpk55 View Post
The clutch is feeling pretty tired and I'll feel better knowing the IMS is fresh. The oil I drained when I bought the car (3000 mile Mobil 1) checked out just fine with Blackstone in Indiana, and I don't really want this car to end up being a money pit. There are so many choices for a new bearing and I'm still not sure where I'll end up. Once I see what's in the car it will help me to decide. The LN and TuneRS are unquestionably the primo way to go. I temper that though with the value of my 02 S and the fact that the original seems fine after 60,000 miles and 16 years and would keep the car in stock form. I am also a bit uneasy sawing, drilling, and filing away the bell housing to introduce what could be another source of oil leaking as well.
Why would you be sawing and drilling the bellhousing? Good to see you've had an oil analysis done. It came back clean? Are saying you're going to take the car apart to see the bearing BEFORE making a decision? If the bearing looks fine, then what next? Leave it in?

Originally Posted by rpk55 View Post
I'm going to start taking the exhaust off tomorrow and see how far I get, and will give the Pelican guys a call soon too to talk through what they can supply in the way of parts and tools. The local auto parts stores where we live to not seem to have a puller that will pull the IMSB and I'll need to source or make the cam tensioner stays unless someone has a set I can rent or borrow. Ken P's experience with the flange bolts kept me awake last night. I can't imaging why anyone would over torque those. I started on the exhaust bolts today just to see if a week of PB Blaster helped, it went well on the clamp bolts but one of the easy bolts on the flange twisted off. Tomorrow is torch day!
Unless I'm mistaken, LN offers free rental of the retrofit installation tools with the purchase of the LN IMS Retrofit or IMS Solution. Check it out...

https://lnengineering.com/tools-rental

Therefore, no need to cobble together piece mill kit, buy the bearing from LN and get the install kit rental for FREE!
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:18 PM
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Ken P
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rpk55, I just changed out the IMS bearing with the Pelican kit yesterday. When I got to my original IMS bearing, it looked fine and spun well in the engine. I did notice the center bolt, had a slight wobble when I spun it around. So it must have a slight bend in it. The bearing feels pretty tight. So, even though the bearing looks great after 105,000 miles, I am glad I decided to change it out and get the stronger bolt with the Pelican kit.

The removal and installation went well. I was able to borrow (loan-a-tool) from Autozone (internal bearing remover with a slide hammer. I did not use the slide hammer to remove the bearing except for the threaded rod portion of the tool to gently pull the bearing out.
To use the tool, I used a section of exhaust pipe around the tool, that fit inside the bearing opening and around the bearing. I think it was 2 1/8" pipe.
I had the bearing in the freezer overnight to hopefully shrink it a little to ease installation, it went in with a couple of gentle taps on the appropriate size socket.
I also did use the set screw method with the set screws included in the Pelican kit to help hold the IMS sprocket in place.

There is a guy on rennlist that had bought the tools for himself and is renting them out now, I had thought about going with them, but did not end up needing them.

Because I am also changing out the Variocam pads I will be timing the cams when that is complete.

I find that is often way faster to just cut off the exhaust bolts and put on new ones. I did use PB Blaster on mine, but they were pretty rusted.

Don't let my bad experience with the axle CV bolts deter you, this is the first time I have seen them that tight. Likely the last person in there used an air wrench to tighten them.
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:42 PM
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Thanks Ken for your input. just about have the exhaust removed and it's moving along nicely. If the bearing is in good shape when I take it out I will most likely do the same and put in a similar Pelican bearing. The DOF versions are probably overkill for an 02 that I'll have for several years and won't be driving more than a few thousand miles a year. I'll look around for a source for the cam holders and bearing puller, would you be able to tell me what the bearing ID is? If I can find a puller for a reasonable price I'll probably just buy one.
Am I understanding correctly that the set screws will hold the IMS sprocket well enough to keep everything in time while the bearing is out? Locking the shafts seems like a much more positive method to me.
Have you replaced your AOS?
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:51 PM
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Ken P
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Rob, good going on the exhaust.
The bearing is a typical size for a 6204, 20 x 47 x 14mm. The ID is 20mm.

Below is the puller I used with the bearing on it, The pic even shows the tool number OEM 27128.


This whole thing sat inside piece of 2 1/4" ID tail pipe, cut to the right length, with a large washer on the other side of the plywood with the nut that I turned to extract the bearing.


It really worked very well.

I have not changed the AOS, and am not planning to right now.
I already did enough while I am in there stuff.

This time just the IMS bearing, RMS, Vario-Cam wear pads and chains, Clutch w/ PP and Flywheel, Trans Mainshaft seal.
I am hoping that I do not have to do the AOS, vario-cam solenoids and/or Coolant tank in the next 2 years.

I still have some cleaning to do.
I'm sure I have done a bunch of other stuff as well.

Right now it is getting ready to go back into the car.
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