Have you replaced your IMS bearing?
11-29-2018, 04:59 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
You are asking who changed their bearings to see what % have done it.
The best way to find that out is to ask the bearing kit manufacturers how many they sold. Then add all the figures from the kit manufactures, divide by the total number of 996/986 cars sold (a figure Porsche would give I'd wager) and you get a percentage. You don't ask Porsche why you want the production numbers. I've seen them posted before so they should be not a trade secret. And you don't need any figures from Porsche on how many bearings have been replaced or engines replaced. Most bearings and kits are replaced not with parts directly from Porsche but with kits or engines from wrecks.
From a posting on Pistonheads by cmoose
1999:
911 - 23,056
Boxster - 20,063
2000:
911 - 23,050
Boxster - 25,865
2001:
911 - 27,325
Boxster - 28,457
I've asked him where he got those figures in hopes I can obtain 97, 98, 02, 03, 04, 05 figures which should give the total number of 1st and 2nd gen IMS engines (yes, I know replacements and some 2006s but still a pretty good figure)
The best way to find that out is to ask the bearing kit manufacturers how many they sold. Then add all the figures from the kit manufactures, divide by the total number of 996/986 cars sold (a figure Porsche would give I'd wager) and you get a percentage. You don't ask Porsche why you want the production numbers. I've seen them posted before so they should be not a trade secret. And you don't need any figures from Porsche on how many bearings have been replaced or engines replaced. Most bearings and kits are replaced not with parts directly from Porsche but with kits or engines from wrecks.
From a posting on Pistonheads by cmoose
1999:
911 - 23,056
Boxster - 20,063
2000:
911 - 23,050
Boxster - 25,865
2001:
911 - 27,325
Boxster - 28,457
I've asked him where he got those figures in hopes I can obtain 97, 98, 02, 03, 04, 05 figures which should give the total number of 1st and 2nd gen IMS engines (yes, I know replacements and some 2006s but still a pretty good figure)
11-29-2018, 05:59 PM
#32
The issue is this when attempting to calculate IMS failure....
Using the data from firms, including Porsche, as to how many failures have happened is flawed.
I think it's safe to assume 99.9% of the replacements were done BEFORE failure occurred. There really isn't anyway to know how many WOULD have failed....
When I changed the IMS on my '99, I did it as a precaution and also my clutch was shot. The old bearing was just fine. I might add that it was a single row bearing that was supposed to have been in the 2000-2004 cars. The car had 98000+ miles on it when I changed it.
tim
Using the data from firms, including Porsche, as to how many failures have happened is flawed.
I think it's safe to assume 99.9% of the replacements were done BEFORE failure occurred. There really isn't anyway to know how many WOULD have failed....
When I changed the IMS on my '99, I did it as a precaution and also my clutch was shot. The old bearing was just fine. I might add that it was a single row bearing that was supposed to have been in the 2000-2004 cars. The car had 98000+ miles on it when I changed it.
tim
11-30-2018, 06:08 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
The original query is how many have changed. Not how many have failed. A query of the later kind is bound to give bogus numbers as people whose engines failed are liable to not be online in a Boxster forum any more, they will have moved on to another car/brand. Last time I checked LN was over 30k.
12-01-2018, 05:54 PM
#36
with the number of cars built, it would seem that these numbers are "replacement" numbers and not failures.
I have spoken to 3 Porsche Service managers in my area (Ms Gulf Coast) with over 60 years combined experience. They told me that collectively they had see only four outright failures. However, they've lost count on how many preventive maintenance IMS jobs they've done.
tim
I have spoken to 3 Porsche Service managers in my area (Ms Gulf Coast) with over 60 years combined experience. They told me that collectively they had see only four outright failures. However, they've lost count on how many preventive maintenance IMS jobs they've done.
tim
12-01-2018, 10:38 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Sold. It isn't a good idea to replace a bearing in a failed situation without a total clean-out of the engine which is almost a rebuild. Most installers have learned that by now. Some the hard way as customers expect their car to be fixed, no have the problems associated with debris a short time after the fix is installed.
12-01-2018, 11:12 PM
#38
Instructor
Is it possible the market prices for the Boxster and 996 are lower than they should be due to the IMS issue? Boxsters and 996s are amazing cars. Look at the price differential to the 993. Sure air cooled and all that but both the 993 and M96 cars are true Porsches.
12-02-2018, 02:57 AM
#39
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Sold. It isn't a good idea to replace a bearing in a failed situation without a total clean-out of the engine which is almost a rebuild. Most installers have learned that by now. Some the hard way as customers expect their car to be fixed, no have the problems associated with debris a short time after the fix is installed.
To the above comment, both the P dealer here and a long time Porsche mechanic have said similar things. Neither have seen a full failure, but both have done plenty of replacements.
12-02-2018, 10:31 AM
#41
Boxsters had water cooling before "the real Porsches" and used the Boxster M96 engine (996)
tum
12-15-2018, 01:23 PM
#43
Captain Obvious
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
My '01 had a new short block from Germany with the updated IMS bearing already installed...about 2000 kms old now. If it was not a new block, I'd would have negotiated a lower price and replaced it for peace of mind, along with the clutch, etc.
As already stated, my bet is that the numbers we read are preventative replacement, rather than outright failures. If you surf the internet too much and read all the horror stories, you'd never buy any car or leave the house! lol
As already stated, my bet is that the numbers we read are preventative replacement, rather than outright failures. If you surf the internet too much and read all the horror stories, you'd never buy any car or leave the house! lol
12-15-2018, 09:30 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
My '01 had a new short block from Germany with the updated IMS bearing already installed...about 2000 kms old now. If it was not a new block, I'd would have negotiated a lower price and replaced it for peace of mind, along with the clutch, etc.
As already stated, my bet is that the numbers we read are preventative replacement, rather than outright failures. If you surf the internet too much and read all the horror stories, you'd never buy any car or leave the house! lol
As already stated, my bet is that the numbers we read are preventative replacement, rather than outright failures. If you surf the internet too much and read all the horror stories, you'd never buy any car or leave the house! lol
Are most of the 30k+ kits sold replacements rather than repairs? Yes, of course since you have to do an elaborate cleaning and rebuild on a motor where one has already failed and has left little bits of metal to take out any bearing the oil manages to penetrate.
12-16-2018, 09:15 AM
#45
Captain Obvious
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think if you ever buy a "project" that had a failure, it might be safest to buy a new engine block rather than try to clean up the mess from the bits and pieces. It would be very tricky to get all those tiny oil passages cleaned out. Of course I'm not skilled enough to rebuild an engine, so that's just my take on it.
The invoice for mine had a ton of new parts bought, along with the head refresh/testing, gaskets, AOS, etc, etc, etc. With the core credit I think the new block was @ $5850 CDN net + about $4,000 for the other parts including taxes. $9850.00 total cost in parts without labour.
I basically paid the PO (a mechanical engineer) what he had in the car...no time to drive with a little one and a wife that cannot drive a stick. Knock on wood, I hope to have many years of driving fun with the Seal as I call it.
The invoice for mine had a ton of new parts bought, along with the head refresh/testing, gaskets, AOS, etc, etc, etc. With the core credit I think the new block was @ $5850 CDN net + about $4,000 for the other parts including taxes. $9850.00 total cost in parts without labour.
I basically paid the PO (a mechanical engineer) what he had in the car...no time to drive with a little one and a wife that cannot drive a stick. Knock on wood, I hope to have many years of driving fun with the Seal as I call it.