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Have you replaced your IMS bearing?

 
Old 09-30-2018, 08:44 PM
  #16  
Tim Lawton
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I think changing the IMS out is a good idea, especially if you did your homework and budgeted accordingly. My "guru" will change mine out, and the clutch (don't need it, but if you got the engine out, why not) for two grand. I will sleep much better at night and never worry again the rest of my life (65 years old)….

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Old 11-20-2018, 08:38 PM
  #17  
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After spending way too many hours researching Boxsters and IMS issues online, I picked up a clean 2002 Boxster last week. It has 41,000 miles and runs great (I've test driven maybe 5 other Boxsters before picking this one) and I already have appointment scheduled to replace IMS with LN Engineering bearing. Debating spending the money now, but gives me piece of mind and removes worry of the issue. I'll also be daily driving this Boxster, so part of the decision to replace. If I decide to sell it down the road, also a selling feature.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:49 AM
  #18  
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So far, of everyone posting in this thread that has done the replacement (of whatever version) all have said their bearings were “pristine”. Mileage doesn’t seem to matter. I’ll do mine when I do my clutch. Currently, everything is fine and it is hard to justify spending the $$$ up front when to do the whole thing right should be IMS, Clutch, Flywheel, RMS. Otherwise it is almost pointless to take the trans out to just do one, or a lessor combo at the end of the day. I’m not big on replacing parts that don’t need it. I suppose I’m playing the odds, but they are stacked WAY in my favor. If my engine goes boom, then it gives me an excuse to do a 3.6! :-)
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:45 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
So far, of everyone posting in this thread that has done the replacement (of whatever version) all have said their bearings were “pristine”. Mileage doesn’t seem to matter. I’ll do mine when I do my clutch. Currently, everything is fine and it is hard to justify spending the $$$ up front when to do the whole thing right should be IMS, Clutch, Flywheel, RMS. Otherwise it is almost pointless to take the trans out to just do one, or a lessor combo at the end of the day. I’m not big on replacing parts that don’t need it. I suppose I’m playing the odds, but they are stacked WAY in my favor. If my engine goes boom, then it gives me an excuse to do a 3.6! :-)
You understand, getting the old bearing out BEFORE it fails is the goal, right? Therefore, if the bearing is shedding metal then it's too late. It really boils down to... can you afford to be "proactive" or "reactive". Your choice.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:36 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor View Post
You understand, getting the old bearing out BEFORE it fails is the goal, right? Therefore, if the bearing is shedding metal then it's too late. It really boils down to... can you afford to be "proactive" or "reactive". Your choice.
That assumes it WILL fail. That's just not the case. Sure, there is a slight gamble part of it, but let's be clear, just because a bearing was replaced, doesn't mean the new one is fail safe. If you pull a pristine bearing, then install a pristine bearing, well... there really hasn't been any real net gain, short of age. I still think, in the end, to do as part of maintenance "while you are there" with a clutch and RMS all along monitoring oil etc. is a reasonable approach. YMMV...
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:38 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
That assumes it WILL fail. That's just not the case.
Like most of us in this world, we've all seen loads of BS over time, but the IMS failure in the M96/M97 Porsches is not an assumption, myth, fish story, or ol' wives tale. It's a fact. If you think it's not, then I have plenty of ocean front property to sell you out in Arizona. There was a time that I thought IMS bearing failure was a big joke. I mean really, how can Porsche - one of the greatest sports car companies - get it so wrong??? Surely, this is just a snake oil scam conjured up by those seeking to benefit from people's fears. But after seeing several of my 996 friends have locked up motors from IMS failure, I began to think otherwise. I know you don't know me from Adam's house cat, but it doesn't take long in Google or Rennlist searching IMS failure to see this is not some sick made up scam. I'm sure you've heard stories of shops that claim they've never seen an failed IMS bearing. I can give you a list of shops that see nothing but IMS failures. The certified IMS Solution shop I dealt with had stacks of intermediate shafts where the bearings had failed and the owner told me those are the ones that they've kept for demonstration purposes. Most of the ones they had throw in the metal recycle bin. The shafts were bent and looked just like the images on the PCA website. The OEM bearings had disintegrated inside the shaft leaving behind trails of worn twisted scarred metal.


Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
Sure, there is a slight gamble part of it, but let's be clear, just because a bearing was replaced, doesn't mean the new one is fail safe.
These are preventive measures. That's why I say it's better to be proactive than reactive when it comes to the IMS problem. Replacing the IMS is a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing the motor. Get my drift?

Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
If you pull a pristine bearing, then install a pristine bearing, well... there really hasn't been any real net gain, short of age.
Yes, there is! You've gained more longevity out of the motor. Think about it. If you ignore swapping out the bearing, guess what you've gained? ANSWER = Roller!

Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
I still think, in the end, to do as part of maintenance "while you are there" with a clutch and RMS all along monitoring oil etc. is a reasonable approach. YMMV...
That's not totally unreasonable. But again, it's always wise to have it done asap. If you get lots of metal in the filter, then it's too late. And... If you don't won't to worry about "miles" on the bearing, then purchase the IMS Solution.

Cheers!
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:16 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor View Post
These are preventive measures. That's why I say it's better to be proactive than reactive when it comes to the IMS problem. Replacing the IMS is a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing the motor. Get my drift?!
actually, no. with the cost of a used 2.5L engine being approximately the same as the cost of R/R tranny/IMSB/clutch/RMS, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMHO to proactively change them out unless you already need a clutch or leaking from the RMS. My RMS is leaking now but I'll put it off and enjoy my new $3000 Boxster
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:44 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor View Post
Like most of us in this world, we've all seen loads of BS over time, but the IMS failure in the M96/M97 Porsches is not an assumption, myth, fish story, or ol' wives tale. It's a fact. If you think it's not, then I have plenty of ocean front property to sell you out in Arizona. There was a time that I thought IMS bearing failure was a big joke. I mean really, how can Porsche - one of the greatest sports car companies - get it so wrong??? Surely, this is just a snake oil scam conjured up by those seeking to benefit from people's fears. But after seeing several of my 996 friends have locked up motors from IMS failure, I began to think otherwise. I know you don't know me from Adam's house cat, but it doesn't take long in Google or Rennlist searching IMS failure to see this is not some sick made up scam. I'm sure you've heard stories of shops that claim they've never seen an failed IMS bearing. I can give you a list of shops that see nothing but IMS failures. The certified IMS Solution shop I dealt with had stacks of intermediate shafts where the bearings had failed and the owner told me those are the ones that they've kept for demonstration purposes. Most of the ones they had throw in the metal recycle bin. The shafts were bent and looked just like the images on the PCA website. The OEM bearings had disintegrated inside the shaft leaving behind trails of worn twisted scarred metal.




These are preventive measures. That's why I say it's better to be proactive than reactive when it comes to the IMS problem. Replacing the IMS is a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing the motor. Get my drift?



Yes, there is! You've gained more longevity out of the motor. Think about it. If you ignore swapping out the bearing, guess what you've gained? ANSWER = Roller!



That's not totally unreasonable. But again, it's always wise to have it done asap. If you get lots of metal in the filter, then it's too late. And... If you don't won't to worry about "miles" on the bearing, then purchase the IMS Solution.

Cheers!
Wow, ok then. I never said there is not proof there can be a problem. However, if you actually READ the data on the top end, the failure rate of the IMS is 1 in 10. 10%, with the actual reality seeming to be somewhere in the realm of 5-8%. So, NO... not all will fail and it isn't a reasonable assumption that my bearing WILL fail before something else fails in the motor. Should it be a part of the equation when servicing? Of course. But dumping 3-4k (if a dealer or other does it) into the car assuming it's going to explode is a bit foley to me. On top of that it generally goes against my better judgement to replace parts that aren't a problem, clutch etc. I'd rather spend that $$ on other upgrades. There are plenty of other issues on these older cars that need attention. When the time comes I'll do it. And I'll probably do the single to double conversion with a recommended interval. To do 'The Solution' the engine needs to be "cleared", so to speak, to be approved for the addition, and I'm pretty sure it MUST be installed by an approved technician for the warranty. It's a pretty strict process from what I gather to get a motor approved. Either way, spend your money how you wish, and I will do the same. Hopefully, your chain ramps aren't disintegrating, your variocam o-rings are nice and healthy, your heads aren't cracked, or any number of things that can kill these engines. And keep in mind, engines fail. Bearings fail. Any mechanical thing can fail. Part of the game...
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:18 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by joseph mitro View Post
actually, no. with the cost of a used 2.5L engine being approximately the same as the cost of R/R tranny/IMSB/clutch/RMS, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMHO to proactively change them out unless you already need a clutch or leaking from the RMS. My RMS is leaking now but I'll put it off and enjoy my new $3000 Boxster
Actually, yes. I'm speaking specifically of the IMS bearing install, not the clutch kit, RMS, etc. Many shops out there will install a LN retrofit on these cars for around $2,000 - $3000. I understand it makes sense to replace other wear items "while you're in there", but still if you're just doing the bearing, it can be done cheaper than most expect. I know many DIY guys are doing it for well under a $1K. They are buying LN RetroFit bearings at a discount from the LN eBay store and renting the extraction/install tools.

Buying another low cost Boxster is not always the best idea either because you're buying a car than in many cases will have the same problems that need to be addressed. Follow me? I'd rather invest in a car that I've cared for instead of hoping to buy another with lots of mysteries. Just my opinion... I guess I foot dance this rollin' log alone. ha!
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:56 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
Wow, ok then. I never said there is not proof there can be a problem. However, if you actually READ the data on the top end, the failure rate of the IMS is 1 in 10. 10%, with the actual reality seeming to be somewhere in the realm of 5-8%.
Most of the "10%" rhetoric came out of the class action law suit which is at least 10 year old data. Tell me how can one accurately quantify with any sort of precision the current IMS failure rate of 20 year old out-of-warranty M96/M97 cars?


Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
So, NO... not all will fail and it isn't a reasonable assumption that my bearing WILL fail before something else fails in the motor. Should it be a part of the equation when servicing? Of course.
And, I agree, aside from the IMS Solution, all other bearings should be replaced per the manufacturers directives. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to replace the bearing with the clutch, as well as the RMS. I would also argue its also a good time to swap out the AOS.

Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
But dumping 3-4k (if a dealer or other does it) into the car assuming it's going to explode is a bit foley to me. On top of that it generally goes against my better judgement to replace parts that aren't a problem, clutch etc. I'd rather spend that $$ on other upgrades.
I've known many in my life that thought the same way. A guy had a nice Mazda with a timing belt. Everyone knew you had to swap it out at 80K miles. Even the mechanics told him he needed to get it changed. He thought it was stupid because the car ran fine and "it was Japanese" which should give him 300,000 miles, right? Not! Drove the car for another 20K miles and the motor grenaded itself. $5,000 repair bill. My sister had brand new VW to drive to college. The motor was known to have water pump problems and would leak coolant which of course would cause the engine to overheat. My father ignored the problem and while driving to back to campus on a cold morning, the motor over heated and cracked the block. The engine replacement in that car would cost more than it was worth.
Anyway, I agree that it's not wise to replace parts that aren't a problem, but that's not the case with these bearings. How many miles on your car? Is it the original bearing? What model?

Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
There are plenty of other issues on these older cars that need attention. When the time comes I'll do it. And I'll probably do the single to double conversion with a recommended interval. To do 'The Solution' the engine needs to be "cleared", so to speak, to be approved for the addition, and I'm pretty sure it MUST be installed by an approved technician for the warranty. It's a pretty strict process from what I gather to get a motor approved. Either way, spend your money how you wish, and I will do the same. Hopefully, your chain ramps aren't disintegrating, your variocam o-rings are nice and healthy, your heads aren't cracked, or any number of things that can kill these engines.
Yep, just like any machine. However, it's a Porsche and will cost 10x as much.

Originally Posted by Geof3 View Post
And keep in mind, engines fail. Bearings fail. Any mechanical thing can fail. Part of the game...
I have succeeded. hahaha
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:31 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by NuttyProfessor View Post
Actually, yes. I'm speaking specifically of the IMS bearing install, not the clutch kit, RMS, etc. Many shops out there will install a LN retrofit on these cars for around $2,000 - $3000. I understand it makes sense to replace other wear items "while you're in there", but still if you're just doing the bearing, it can be done cheaper than most expect. I know many DIY guys are doing it for well under a $1K. They are buying LN RetroFit bearings at a discount from the LN eBay store and renting the extraction/install tools.

Buying another low cost Boxster is not always the best idea either because you're buying a car than in many cases will have the same problems that need to be addressed. Follow me? I'd rather invest in a car that I've cared for instead of hoping to buy another with lots of mysteries. Just my opinion... I guess I foot dance this rollin' log alone. ha!
I follow you completely, I just have a different viewpoint than you. I like to buy cheap project cars and fix them up; I do all the work myself, and will probably do the IMS myself too.

you seem pretty adamant that everyone should feel the same way you do. but in the end, there are more important things in life than worrying about a bearing. so it's a pointless argument
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Old 11-28-2018, 02:09 PM
  #27  
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To the above... Exactly...
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph mitro View Post
I follow you completely, I just have a different viewpoint than you. I like to buy cheap project cars and fix them up; I do all the work myself, and will probably do the IMS myself too.

you seem pretty adamant that everyone should feel the same way you do. but in the end, there are more important things in life than worrying about a bearing. so it's a pointless argument
Thank you for your viewpoint, but I don't believe it's a pointless argument. If it truly was, then you wouldn't have spent the time to read this thread and post an opinion. And, I believe you have misinterpreted my intent. The reasoning behind starting this thread was NOT to try to congregate a following into my little Kool Aid camp of bearing swappers; but rather, to redirect people to a poll I started in the 996 forum. I was very curious to get a sample of the choices that people have made in regards to the IMS problem. Did you vote?
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:45 PM
  #29  
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Why not query the bearing kit suppliers and get some reasonable figures, subtract that from production figures from Porsche and get some sensible statistics, I know LN will give you figures, they have me in the past. My last recollection was over 30k LNs of varying configurations.

Self selected polls are pretty meaningless.
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
Why not query the bearing kit suppliers and get some reasonable figures, subtract that from production figures from Porsche and get some sensible statistics, I know LN will give you figures, they have me in the past. My last recollection was over 30k LNs of varying configurations.

Self selected polls are pretty meaningless.
Thank you, Mike. Balancing that information against Porsche's production database would be flawed at the very least. (e.g. multiple engine replacements) Plus, they're not going to give out that information. Trying to get anything statistical out of Porsche in regards to the M96/M97 bearing problem would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. I've tried. It's pretty well known that Porsche does not offer an official opinion one way or the other on the matter aside what was legally obtained in the class action lawsuit. Contacting the aftermarket bearing manufacturers will not give you any data on people that have chosen to not to do anything with their bearings. All polls have a margin of error, but some of the best information can be obtained through smaller diverse samples. Currently, 189 people voted. While that may seem small compared to the total amount of users on Rennlist, it is still ideal.
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