Listened to Wilson Sasha's last night.
12-20-2011, 10:02 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I would not suggest you drive the Sash'a with a tube amp , or one that does not have an 2 ohm tap, The bass will be horrible.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/w...r-measurements
Looking at the measurements here the Sash's drop to 2 ohm in the critical bass region with an phase angle of 45 deg, this will cause you amp with it's 4 ohm tap to distort.
Stereophile:
"Sasha's plot of impedance magnitude and electrical phase (fig.1) reveals the speaker to be a demanding load for the partnering amplifier to drive. Not only does the impedance drop below 4 ohms for most of the lower midrange and upper bass, with a minimum value of 2 ohms at 86Hz, but there is also an amplifier-unfriendly combination of 3 ohms and –43° phase angle at 61Hz."
Being subjective, the reviewer did not have an issue ( he claims) when listening from the 4 ohm tap on his Art's Shindo Corton-Charlemagne monoblocks........
Stereophile:
A little too much energy is apparent at the top of the midrange; whether this will be perceived as a forwardness to the Sasha's balance, or whether the relative lack of energy in the presence region will be heard as a slightly laid-back quality, will very much depend on the music played. This graph was taken with the Sasha's grille removed..
This is how i had auditioned them with grille removed and the ringing in the upper middle was too much for me , granted , this can be tamed with cables a bit high in inductance ( no silver here) and or tube amplfiers with a soft top end.
This is why it is very critical for in house listening , to get the best from the setup , cables et al .
Stereophile:"
It took me longer than usual to comprehend what the Wilson Sasha's measurements were telling me. Some of the individual measurements raised my eyebrows a little, but taking in the entirety of the speaker's measurements, it becomes apparent that the Sasha is the result of its designer carefully balancing each parameter to achieve a good-sounding whole. And judging from not only Art Dudley's auditioning but also my own, the Sasha does achieve that goal. With the Sasha, David Wilson has finally eliminated the upper-bass "blump" endemic to earlier generations of the WATT/Puppy, and that I felt to be that otherwise excellent-sounding speaker's Achilles' heel. But its impedance is still going to mean careful auditioning with a would-be purchaser's amplifier, to see if the latter is up to the task of driving the Sashas.
—John Atkinson
Industry speak .....
Impedance graph, not tube friendly ..
http://www.stereophile.com/content/w...r-measurements
Looking at the measurements here the Sash's drop to 2 ohm in the critical bass region with an phase angle of 45 deg, this will cause you amp with it's 4 ohm tap to distort.
Stereophile:
"Sasha's plot of impedance magnitude and electrical phase (fig.1) reveals the speaker to be a demanding load for the partnering amplifier to drive. Not only does the impedance drop below 4 ohms for most of the lower midrange and upper bass, with a minimum value of 2 ohms at 86Hz, but there is also an amplifier-unfriendly combination of 3 ohms and –43° phase angle at 61Hz."
Being subjective, the reviewer did not have an issue ( he claims) when listening from the 4 ohm tap on his Art's Shindo Corton-Charlemagne monoblocks........
Stereophile:
A little too much energy is apparent at the top of the midrange; whether this will be perceived as a forwardness to the Sasha's balance, or whether the relative lack of energy in the presence region will be heard as a slightly laid-back quality, will very much depend on the music played. This graph was taken with the Sasha's grille removed..
This is how i had auditioned them with grille removed and the ringing in the upper middle was too much for me , granted , this can be tamed with cables a bit high in inductance ( no silver here) and or tube amplfiers with a soft top end.
This is why it is very critical for in house listening , to get the best from the setup , cables et al .
Stereophile:"
It took me longer than usual to comprehend what the Wilson Sasha's measurements were telling me. Some of the individual measurements raised my eyebrows a little, but taking in the entirety of the speaker's measurements, it becomes apparent that the Sasha is the result of its designer carefully balancing each parameter to achieve a good-sounding whole. And judging from not only Art Dudley's auditioning but also my own, the Sasha does achieve that goal. With the Sasha, David Wilson has finally eliminated the upper-bass "blump" endemic to earlier generations of the WATT/Puppy, and that I felt to be that otherwise excellent-sounding speaker's Achilles' heel. But its impedance is still going to mean careful auditioning with a would-be purchaser's amplifier, to see if the latter is up to the task of driving the Sashas.
—John Atkinson
Industry speak .....
Impedance graph, not tube friendly ..
It is my understanding they were voiced with the grills on which is how I auditioned them and I think they would be too bright without the grills. I wasn't concerned with impedance the accuphase can handle the loads these require although they would run hot. Although knowing Ken Shindo's product I doubt they would give his amps any issue but I actually prefer the SS with tube pre sound. After taking into consideration all that is required with setup and not sure my room will get over their needs it wasn't worth even going through the home audition. besides management still wants aesthetics as top of the list which isn't going to be easy. If I came home with an original pair of B&W Nautilus she would probably be OK with that.
I am in no rush when the right pair comes around I am ready. For now the system sounds quite good and I am adding a JL sub just to round things out until something better suited comes along. Gives me a good reason to start from A and work my way through my collection of LP's again.
Happy Holidays
12-20-2011, 02:01 PM
#17
Formula One Spin Doctor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The Accuphase will drive just about anything , so i was not concerned about the SS amp, tube ! ... Yes. Regarding government , i would take home a pr of avangarde trio's in yellow..
Imagine the leeway given to replace them ......
Imagine the leeway given to replace them ......
08-26-2012, 10:30 PM
#19
Wilson's to me are all hype. If you go to the web site its full of nonesense. X-material, thats Corian he uses. The guy is full of it. Tweeters are from Focal and he uses Focals inverted dome entry line. He could not get the Be tweeters that Focal uses on Electra and Utopia top of the line speakers. They claim now they "have found the best dome tweeter". Speakers are a ton of weight on cheap Home Depot casters. Avant garde they are but just hype. See how many are for sale at Audiogon, they that good no one would be selling them. I still got my 901's from college, thats avant garde!
08-27-2012, 01:54 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Now I've heard it all, a Bose 901 owner trashing Avantgardes...like a Chevy Vega driver trashing GT3s.
08-28-2012, 07:51 AM
#25
No, no,no, guys you misread my post. Avant Garde like different, out of the ordinary. Not Avantgarde Audio. Read the post again, I did put a space between "Avant Garde". Secondly, I never mentioned "BOSE" just 901. I guess subliminal advertising or classical conditioning? Anyhow, no big deal guys just putting my two cheap cents in. How abot HUGO BOSE?
08-28-2012, 07:53 AM
#26
08-28-2012, 11:31 AM
#27
You didn't have to mention Bose, we all know that's what you meant ) We've all been there. Have you ever listened to Wilsons?
Using the same N3 spec Michelin PS2's is not going to make a Miata handle like a Boxster. There IS more to it than marketing hyperbole. There is a science to making P-cars different and delightful. It's not not all snake oil, and real audiophiles like real car guys know it's not only objective and quantifiable, it's discernible too.
Sophia 2, MC275 x2
) We've all been there. Have you ever listened to Wilsons?Using the same N3 spec Michelin PS2's is not going to make a Miata handle like a Boxster. There IS more to it than marketing hyperbole. There is a science to making P-cars different and delightful. It's not not all snake oil, and real audiophiles like real car guys know it's not only objective and quantifiable, it's discernible too.
Sophia 2, MC275 x2
08-28-2012, 02:20 PM
#28
Yes I have. The place that I bought my VTL amp ( Sound Components Miami Coral Gables) to drive my Magnepans 3.5 Ribbon speakers (sold 2006) had them. They had the Alexandria's and someone was listening to them. I was picking up a center channel for my system and I stayed around to hear them. Monsters they are in size but I don't have that type of money to spend on them. The sales person at the time told me to get better sound, I would have to jump in the $30K area with Wilsons to better my 3.5R's. My Focals are not cheap, I have two different sets. The 1008Be upstairs, 1028Be's downstairs with the matching Electra Subwoofer. The bookshelf with stands ran me $5600.00. The towers were $9500.00. The sub was $4500.00. The rest are in ceiling Focals not cheap either but I like quality stuff. I also had B&W 802's with the VTL MB-450's sold those also. No desire to buy any speaker or upgrade, Focals are it for me. Plus wife is had enough of speaker, amp, pre-amps, processors..etc. funny thing is she thinks that stuff is like $200.00 a piece! Talking about Wilsons, find out whom they get most of the drivers from? I will give you a clue, it's Focal! Look it up. They just changed out the tweeters they used to get from Focal (inverted dome aluminum) to a new supplier. Focal makes everything in house. Speakers, cones, furniture, the whole thing. I am passionate about Porsche and Focal.
08-28-2012, 05:38 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Yep, Focal is good stuff.
08-28-2012, 05:38 PM
#30
I guess you missed the point of my analogy of Miata running Michelins PS2's to make it handle like a Porsche Boxster.
Yes I know Wilson uses many Focal drivers, so what? The sum of the other parts does not equate Wilson to an inflated Focal speaker. Wilson sounded more "there" to my ears. Although there might be something to be said for the Be tweeter, very ethereal and detailed orchestral violins. I auditioned Alto Utopia Be extensively before buying Sophia 2. I understand everyone has their own flavor which is what makes the world an interesting place. Pretty boring if everyone drove Porsche! I just came to defend the speaker maker I currently enjoy and share my own findings. I do not doubt Corian with a dab of Liquid Nails is in fact Material Z @ $5k sqft. Who really knows. I wanted to not to like Wilson. I really did. But then I had a good listen and was sold. Instead of listening to what salesman say, or magazines or intuition etc... I listen with my own ears YMMV
Yes I know Wilson uses many Focal drivers, so what? The sum of the other parts does not equate Wilson to an inflated Focal speaker. Wilson sounded more "there" to my ears. Although there might be something to be said for the Be tweeter, very ethereal and detailed orchestral violins. I auditioned Alto Utopia Be extensively before buying Sophia 2. I understand everyone has their own flavor which is what makes the world an interesting place. Pretty boring if everyone drove Porsche! I just came to defend the speaker maker I currently enjoy and share my own findings. I do not doubt Corian with a dab of Liquid Nails is in fact Material Z @ $5k sqft. Who really knows. I wanted to not to like Wilson. I really did. But then I had a good listen and was sold. Instead of listening to what salesman say, or magazines or intuition etc... I listen with my own ears YMMV