View Poll Results: Do you prefer anolog, digital or both?
Love the sound of Vinyl i am old school anolog at heart.
11
27.50%
CD's are great why bother with vinyl
6
15.00%
SACD's are by far the best
2
5.00%
Enjoy both anolog and digital formats
21
52.50%
What are you crazy
1
2.50%
I listen to an Ipod exclusively
3
7.50%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll
First thread!! analog or digital?
08-31-2010, 10:47 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
First thread!! analog or digital?
Bob was nice enough to create another section for us so lets begin.
Why not a poll on what format you prefer for home stereo listening. Are you old school analog or die hard digital or what and why?
After voting give us your reasons why you like one format over another and a little something about your past experience with AV equipment.
I am old school vinyl fan since I started buying higher end stereo equipment in the 70's. I fought CD's and finally gave in but after selling my Sota table 18 +/- years ago I became disenchanted with music because of the lack of dynamics the CD seemed to offer.
After buying a table again last year I listen to CD's occasionally but will always opt for a nice LP over a CD. Prefer the interaction with the music and rarely listen to one side at a time. I am not one to use a remote with my stereo. I also find that vinyl offers me a larger sound stage and better overall musical imagery than CD's. I have never owned an SACD player but I found most of the music I prefer is not available on SACD.
Sorry about the typos in the poll. Don't know how to change that.
Why not a poll on what format you prefer for home stereo listening. Are you old school analog or die hard digital or what and why?
After voting give us your reasons why you like one format over another and a little something about your past experience with AV equipment.
I am old school vinyl fan since I started buying higher end stereo equipment in the 70's. I fought CD's and finally gave in but after selling my Sota table 18 +/- years ago I became disenchanted with music because of the lack of dynamics the CD seemed to offer.
After buying a table again last year I listen to CD's occasionally but will always opt for a nice LP over a CD. Prefer the interaction with the music and rarely listen to one side at a time. I am not one to use a remote with my stereo. I also find that vinyl offers me a larger sound stage and better overall musical imagery than CD's. I have never owned an SACD player but I found most of the music I prefer is not available on SACD.
Sorry about the typos in the poll. Don't know how to change that.
08-31-2010, 11:34 PM
#3
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Was originally into vinyl (well, that's really not fair as that's all there was). Then, went CD. After a few years of that, something was missing. Went in search of that warm, open, airy sound without the harshness of many CD's now. Went back to vinyl. The big thing with CD was the "extended dynamic range," quietness, etc., but something about vinyl just sounds better. Most CDs sound shrill now in comparison.
I'm on the cusp of tweeking the CD now, changing power cable, adding footers, etc. I have a Primare (great reviews, and described as being warm for a CD player), but just not quite up to vinyl. The conveniance factor is there however, I will usually play CDs to warm up the tube amp.
Now, for all the naysayers out there (though, admittingly, there is a lot of "Audio Voodoo" out there), I have some music on both CD and vinyl, vinyl sounds better. Even for rock, which is not usually recorded with depth of stage, airyness, etc in mind. AC/DC Back in Black's opening is positively haunting on vinyl compared to the CD version. You can hear the guitar strings vibrating on vinyl, I can't pick it up on CD. Unless you get a bad pressing or damaged album, and it sounds like garbage. One interesting thing I did find, I have an old copy of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. It is very noisy. I've cleaned the crap out of it with my VPI 16.5, tried 2 different kinds of fluids, still crappy. Steam cleaning is next. I heard a CD version just last week, also very noisy. I guess there was no clean master of it available? Anyone have a quiet version?
I'm on the cusp of tweeking the CD now, changing power cable, adding footers, etc. I have a Primare (great reviews, and described as being warm for a CD player), but just not quite up to vinyl. The conveniance factor is there however, I will usually play CDs to warm up the tube amp.
Now, for all the naysayers out there (though, admittingly, there is a lot of "Audio Voodoo" out there), I have some music on both CD and vinyl, vinyl sounds better. Even for rock, which is not usually recorded with depth of stage, airyness, etc in mind. AC/DC Back in Black's opening is positively haunting on vinyl compared to the CD version. You can hear the guitar strings vibrating on vinyl, I can't pick it up on CD. Unless you get a bad pressing or damaged album, and it sounds like garbage. One interesting thing I did find, I have an old copy of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. It is very noisy. I've cleaned the crap out of it with my VPI 16.5, tried 2 different kinds of fluids, still crappy. Steam cleaning is next. I heard a CD version just last week, also very noisy. I guess there was no clean master of it available? Anyone have a quiet version?
09-01-2010, 09:22 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Was originally into vinyl (well, that's really not fair as that's all there was). Then, went CD. After a few years of that, something was missing. Went in search of that warm, open, airy sound without the harshness of many CD's now. Went back to vinyl. The big thing with CD was the "extended dynamic range," quietness, etc., but something about vinyl just sounds better. Most CDs sound shrill now in comparison.
I'm on the cusp of tweeking the CD now, changing power cable, adding footers, etc. I have a Primare (great reviews, and described as being warm for a CD player), but just not quite up to vinyl. The conveniance factor is there however, I will usually play CDs to warm up the tube amp.
Now, for all the naysayers out there (though, admittingly, there is a lot of "Audio Voodoo" out there), I have some music on both CD and vinyl, vinyl sounds better. Even for rock, which is not usually recorded with depth of stage, airyness, etc in mind. AC/DC Back in Black's opening is positively haunting on vinyl compared to the CD version. You can hear the guitar strings vibrating on vinyl, I can't pick it up on CD. Unless you get a bad pressing or damaged album, and it sounds like garbage. One interesting thing I did find, I have an old copy of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. It is very noisy. I've cleaned the crap out of it with my VPI 16.5, tried 2 different kinds of fluids, still crappy. Steam cleaning is next. I heard a CD version just last week, also very noisy. I guess there was no clean master of it available? Anyone have a quiet version?
I'm on the cusp of tweeking the CD now, changing power cable, adding footers, etc. I have a Primare (great reviews, and described as being warm for a CD player), but just not quite up to vinyl. The conveniance factor is there however, I will usually play CDs to warm up the tube amp.
Now, for all the naysayers out there (though, admittingly, there is a lot of "Audio Voodoo" out there), I have some music on both CD and vinyl, vinyl sounds better. Even for rock, which is not usually recorded with depth of stage, airyness, etc in mind. AC/DC Back in Black's opening is positively haunting on vinyl compared to the CD version. You can hear the guitar strings vibrating on vinyl, I can't pick it up on CD. Unless you get a bad pressing or damaged album, and it sounds like garbage. One interesting thing I did find, I have an old copy of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. It is very noisy. I've cleaned the crap out of it with my VPI 16.5, tried 2 different kinds of fluids, still crappy. Steam cleaning is next. I heard a CD version just last week, also very noisy. I guess there was no clean master of it available? Anyone have a quiet version?
I find CD's, too in your face forward sounding and don't give you that full sound stage and subtleties that vinyl offers.
I have a lot of Vinyl that just never seemed to be released on CD. I have a copy of Stanley Turrentine 42nd street that i find to be a fantastic sax Jazz lp and I have never seen or heard of anyone who has seen it on CD. There is a best of CD that I was told was never released on vinyl so you need both formats.
I did notice that when I compare my early Telarc CD's against their LP's that I prefer the LP over the CD even though the recordings were originally digital. I also found interconnects and power conditioning made made much more of an improvement to the CD player than it did for the TT. A lot of information was missing until I upgraded them. I do have a few Japanese released CD's that do sound better than the LP. One for instance is King Crimson Court of the Crimson King. But my vinyl copy is old and worn. I will ahve to try to find an affordable Japanese LP and see how they compare.
09-01-2010, 06:02 PM
#5
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I voted for digital (CDs) but only because of the way I listen to music.
I like vinyl but I only listen to songs and not an album, and I don't like having to get up to change record after each song. I think this because of when I was growing up and watched MTV, and didn't know much about albums and only know the songs. Also back then being so poor, I would not have money to buy records and thus developed a habit of listening to music that blends well with digital.
I like to make my own list of songs (mixed tape) and burn to CD and listen to that. If vinyl records could do that I would listen to it because I like the sound of analog better. Growing up my brother had like 10 records and that was it.
My CD player is Cambridge 840C, which has gotten great reviews and I love it for my level. I love going to the local swap meet on the weekend and look for old CDs for cheap. This is the only way I can afford music that I love.
I like vinyl but I only listen to songs and not an album, and I don't like having to get up to change record after each song. I think this because of when I was growing up and watched MTV, and didn't know much about albums and only know the songs. Also back then being so poor, I would not have money to buy records and thus developed a habit of listening to music that blends well with digital.
I like to make my own list of songs (mixed tape) and burn to CD and listen to that. If vinyl records could do that I would listen to it because I like the sound of analog better. Growing up my brother had like 10 records and that was it.
My CD player is Cambridge 840C, which has gotten great reviews and I love it for my level. I love going to the local swap meet on the weekend and look for old CDs for cheap. This is the only way I can afford music that I love.
09-01-2010, 06:55 PM
#6
Race Car
Anthony - do you have any CD's from the early days of CD's? I found that Pearl Jam's "Ten" album ('91 I think) sounds really great and has good dynamics. Take any of their modern recordings and it just simply sounds like ****. Harsh mids, all or nothing dynamics, cymbals sound tinny, etc....
I can't compare to LP's because 1) I never heard a high-end one, 2) It has been like 20+ years ago since I heard a LP.
I can't compare to LP's because 1) I never heard a high-end one, 2) It has been like 20+ years ago since I heard a LP.
09-01-2010, 10:06 PM
#7
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Tippy, I have Ten, I'll have to give it a listen again. I actually don't think I've heard it on my current system (Primare and McIntosh.)
If you have someone nearby with vinyl, give it a listen. I think you'll be surprised. I, like many others, drank the CD kool aid and it took a while to figure out something was, in fact, missing. It is very convenient however, and I do have hundreds of CD's I don't plan on trying to replace. They are easy to set and forget for listening out on the deck speakers, ripping to ipod, out in the car, etc. And there are some good CD's out there too. Even my Cranberries No Need to Argue, you can hear her taking breaths between her phrasings on my system. I need to find a copy on vinyl (if it exists) to compare.
If you have someone nearby with vinyl, give it a listen. I think you'll be surprised. I, like many others, drank the CD kool aid and it took a while to figure out something was, in fact, missing. It is very convenient however, and I do have hundreds of CD's I don't plan on trying to replace. They are easy to set and forget for listening out on the deck speakers, ripping to ipod, out in the car, etc. And there are some good CD's out there too. Even my Cranberries No Need to Argue, you can hear her taking breaths between her phrasings on my system. I need to find a copy on vinyl (if it exists) to compare.
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09-02-2010, 03:48 PM
#8
Campeck Rulez
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You guys say that analog (vinyl) sounds better than cd's.
But all I remember of vinyl was that incessant crackling sound. I can't stand that. sounds like crappy speakers or something. And those little anti-static ionizing guns never got rid of it.
CD's are on the way out anyway. Soon we will have USB sticks that will hold a bajillion bytes. No need for CD's then. Everything will just have a plug in for the USB. car radios and TV's are already onto it.
But all I remember of vinyl was that incessant crackling sound. I can't stand that. sounds like crappy speakers or something. And those little anti-static ionizing guns never got rid of it.
CD's are on the way out anyway. Soon we will have USB sticks that will hold a bajillion bytes. No need for CD's then. Everything will just have a plug in for the USB. car radios and TV's are already onto it.
09-02-2010, 07:10 PM
#9
Race Car
Tippy, I have Ten, I'll have to give it a listen again. I actually don't think I've heard it on my current system (Primare and McIntosh.)
If you have someone nearby with vinyl, give it a listen. I think you'll be surprised. I, like many others, drank the CD kool aid and it took a while to figure out something was, in fact, missing. It is very convenient however, and I do have hundreds of CD's I don't plan on trying to replace. They are easy to set and forget for listening out on the deck speakers, ripping to ipod, out in the car, etc. And there are some good CD's out there too. Even my Cranberries No Need to Argue, you can hear her taking breaths between her phrasings on my system. I need to find a copy on vinyl (if it exists) to compare.
If you have someone nearby with vinyl, give it a listen. I think you'll be surprised. I, like many others, drank the CD kool aid and it took a while to figure out something was, in fact, missing. It is very convenient however, and I do have hundreds of CD's I don't plan on trying to replace. They are easy to set and forget for listening out on the deck speakers, ripping to ipod, out in the car, etc. And there are some good CD's out there too. Even my Cranberries No Need to Argue, you can hear her taking breaths between her phrasings on my system. I need to find a copy on vinyl (if it exists) to compare.
09-03-2010, 12:32 AM
#10
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Campeck, you are right. But, in reality, it was poor care and poor equipment set up (myself included.) My first Technics turntable was probably 100 bucks or so, with maybe a $20 cartridge, and I didn't exactly handle the records well, and never cleaned them. And proper set up? Fugeddaboudit! Knowing what I know now, I could probably take that exact same gear and make it sound way better than it was.
The bad part is, once that record is damaged, it's done. Most damage is caused by poor handling, wrong set up, worn needles, etc.
The bad part is, once that record is damaged, it's done. Most damage is caused by poor handling, wrong set up, worn needles, etc.
09-04-2010, 12:09 AM
#11
Race Director
I enjoy both. Despite the fact that virtually all of my vinyl collection is from before 1980 it's amazing how great some of the old pressings can sound on good equipment from the day as well as on the modern stuff.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 09-04-2010 at 02:42 AM.
09-05-2010, 07:42 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
I have a top of the line vinyl setup and a closet full of LP's which sound awesome. I think you could have the same content on one or two hard drives, and in the new hi-res formats, they would sound just as good.
Vinyl is clearly superior to CD, but everything matters in analog. The turntable stand, the cartridge alignment, the mat on the platter, the phono stage, all have an effect on the sound. The cartridge is a perishable item, and the records are at risk of pops and scratches. CD is pretty much plug and play, and a CD player priced comparably to a great vinyl rig with sound so good that you won't miss the vinyl. The vinyl will still sound better, but the CD will sound good enough.
I warn people off vinyl because it is so impractical for the way people live today. You need a cleaning machine, a storage closet, an expert to set it up for you, and a wife who cares enough about music to understand the investment.
I have not tried to sell my vinyl rig, but I would be open if somebody wants to discuss. My contact info is in my profile.
Vinyl is clearly superior to CD, but everything matters in analog. The turntable stand, the cartridge alignment, the mat on the platter, the phono stage, all have an effect on the sound. The cartridge is a perishable item, and the records are at risk of pops and scratches. CD is pretty much plug and play, and a CD player priced comparably to a great vinyl rig with sound so good that you won't miss the vinyl. The vinyl will still sound better, but the CD will sound good enough.
I warn people off vinyl because it is so impractical for the way people live today. You need a cleaning machine, a storage closet, an expert to set it up for you, and a wife who cares enough about music to understand the investment.
I have not tried to sell my vinyl rig, but I would be open if somebody wants to discuss. My contact info is in my profile.
09-05-2010, 09:56 PM
#14
Race Director
Do you mean not mentioned as an alternative to vinyl or digital/CD? I have opinions on that. First, unlike turntables, I believe virtually no one is manufacturing reel to reel recorders for home use anymore. You would need to find a vintage deck to restore (I have a Teac 3300-10 if you're interested 
). Also, nobody is producing pre-recorded reel to reel tapes so you're making your own recordings; which begs the question of why? As a way to store a music collection, tape is an expensive and not particularly durable format. Plus to get decent fidelity you need to record at a minimum of 7 1/2 ips which means an 1800 foot 1mil tape is good for 90 minutes of music (both sides). That's a lot of tape if you have a lot of music. Finally, because of it's linear configuration, unlike vinyl or digital, it's a pain to access a given selection on tape with all the winding, rewinding, etc.
In the day, and until quality cassette decks came along with Dolby B & C and dbx noise reduction, and metal cassete tape formulations, a good reel to reel deck was the only way to copy music. I used mine to record off FM or make "party" reels from records. With 10" (3600') capacity I could get 90 minutes of music before I had to flip the reel which was a lot better than flipping vinyl every 20-30 minutes. Today, unless you've got a recording studio, I don't see the point of tape for the average audiophile. My $.02.
). Also, nobody is producing pre-recorded reel to reel tapes so you're making your own recordings; which begs the question of why? As a way to store a music collection, tape is an expensive and not particularly durable format. Plus to get decent fidelity you need to record at a minimum of 7 1/2 ips which means an 1800 foot 1mil tape is good for 90 minutes of music (both sides). That's a lot of tape if you have a lot of music. Finally, because of it's linear configuration, unlike vinyl or digital, it's a pain to access a given selection on tape with all the winding, rewinding, etc.In the day, and until quality cassette decks came along with Dolby B & C and dbx noise reduction, and metal cassete tape formulations, a good reel to reel deck was the only way to copy music. I used mine to record off FM or make "party" reels from records. With 10" (3600') capacity I could get 90 minutes of music before I had to flip the reel which was a lot better than flipping vinyl every 20-30 minutes. Today, unless you've got a recording studio, I don't see the point of tape for the average audiophile. My $.02.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 09-05-2010 at 11:54 PM.
09-05-2010, 10:16 PM
#15
Race Director
What cartridge do you all recommend for good bang for the buck?