View Poll Results: Vehicle year and whether or not your coolant pipe joins failed
2007 - did fail
11
16.42%
2007 - did not fail
14
20.90%
2008 - did fail
6
8.96%
2008 - did not fail
20
29.85%
2009 - did fail
2
2.99%
2009 - did not fail
14
20.90%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll
Coolant pipe epoxy failure - which years?
05-05-2017, 05:43 AM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Coolant pipe epoxy failure - which years?
From what I've read, Porsche apparently improved the coolant leak issue by changing the epoxy used for MY 2008+. I'm wondering whether people have indeed seen a higher incidence rate on 2007 997.1tt's, compared to 2008 and 2009.
Edit: I supposed better wording would have been "has not yet failed", but you get the idea.
Edit: I supposed better wording would have been "has not yet failed", but you get the idea.
05-05-2017, 11:13 AM
#3
Drifting
Decided to jinx myself and checked '09 with no coolant pipe issues, after 70k enthusiastic miles.
05-05-2017, 02:10 PM
#4
Addict
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For the 997.1TT you might want to add/ include the plastic coolant elbow/fitting that connects to the rear oil water heat exchangers. This failure is just as bad and is becoming more common.
Please note: Guys make sure that your shop techs remove/clean and re-epoxy all of the fitting prior to pinning. I have seen numerous "fixes" with one fitting fixed/epoxied and all fittings pinned. If the glue/epoxy fails with a pinned coolant fitting>> coolant will seep and leak until fixed. You won't get the dreaded loss of coolant since the fitting is secured. But it's a mess. We are seeing these quick fixes on the 996TT, only to have owners go back in and spend the monies "twice" to get fixed.
Please note: Guys make sure that your shop techs remove/clean and re-epoxy all of the fitting prior to pinning. I have seen numerous "fixes" with one fitting fixed/epoxied and all fittings pinned. If the glue/epoxy fails with a pinned coolant fitting>> coolant will seep and leak until fixed. You won't get the dreaded loss of coolant since the fitting is secured. But it's a mess. We are seeing these quick fixes on the 996TT, only to have owners go back in and spend the monies "twice" to get fixed.
05-05-2017, 05:09 PM
#5
For the 997.1TT you might want to add/ include the plastic coolant elbow/fitting that connects to the rear oil water heat exchangers. This failure is just as bad and is becoming more common.
Please note: Guys make sure that your shop techs remove/clean and re-epoxy all of the fitting prior to pinning. I have seen numerous "fixes" with one fitting fixed/epoxied and all fittings pinned. If the glue/epoxy fails with a pinned coolant fitting>> coolant will seep and leak until fixed. You won't get the dreaded loss of coolant since the fitting is secured. But it's a mess. We are seeing these quick fixes on the 996TT, only to have owners go back in and spend the monies "twice" to get fixed.
Please note: Guys make sure that your shop techs remove/clean and re-epoxy all of the fitting prior to pinning. I have seen numerous "fixes" with one fitting fixed/epoxied and all fittings pinned. If the glue/epoxy fails with a pinned coolant fitting>> coolant will seep and leak until fixed. You won't get the dreaded loss of coolant since the fitting is secured. But it's a mess. We are seeing these quick fixes on the 996TT, only to have owners go back in and spend the monies "twice" to get fixed.
05-05-2017, 09:51 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
From my research, coolant line failure was completely addressed on 997.2. .1s are not immune. You will hear less issues on 09 since not many were made but not immune
05-05-2017, 10:40 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It could have been improved without being completely resolved though. Kind of like IMS on 06+ non-turbos. Not saying it was, but I have read statements to that effect. So, wanted to get some (obviously skewed and unreliable) numbers. That's also why I included the options for owning the car but not having the problem - to try for a rate rather than an absolute count.
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05-05-2017, 11:16 PM
#8
Drifting
What's always interesting to me is that it seems like it can effect virtually any car. High miles, low miles, gently driven queens, track rats - I've seen coolant pipe reports on all of them.
I think I once saw a thread on 6speed about an 09 with the issue but I may be misremembering or it may have been preventative.
I think I once saw a thread on 6speed about an 09 with the issue but I may be misremembering or it may have been preventative.
05-08-2017, 06:21 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
From a quick perusal of that (very long) thread, it certainly appears that the problem improved after 2007-2008 (perhaps even mid-production year 2008?), notwithstanding the fact that there were fewer Turbos made in 2009. Tough to tell though since it's only people who had the problem that posted.
Actually, yeah, looks like Porsche confirms exactly that. Here's the summary from NHTSA, from that thread:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...13009-5428.PDF
Process improvement in mid 2008 MY production. Seems to match what we're seeing - lots of failures in 2007, some in 2008, and very few in 2009.
I have seen some anecdotes of the pipes coming off even in 2010+ cars, but presumably if a thing is glued on, it can come off in at least some circumstances. The failure rate is the thing - and it definitely appears higher for 2007 and early 2008s.
Actually, yeah, looks like Porsche confirms exactly that. Here's the summary from NHTSA, from that thread:
On April 26, 2013, the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) opened PE13-009 to investigate 10 complaints alleging incidents of sudden coolant loss while traveling on public roadways in certain model year (MY) 2001 through 2007 Porsche 911 vehicles. The complaints alleged that pipe ends joined by epoxy to certain cooling system components may fail suddenly and separate, resulting in large volumes of coolant leakage. The investigation was opened to assess evidence of a design or manufacturing defect in the coolant pipe fittings and any related safety consequences.
In response to ODI’s Information Request letter, Porsche identified a manufacturing quality issue with the supplier’s application of adhesive to coolant pipe fittings that resulted in elevated failure rates in approximately 6,800 early production 997 generation vehicles (MY 2007 and early MY 2008). ODI’s analysis of field data showed that the age-adjusted failure rate for these vehicles was approximately six times greater than MY 2001 through 2005 996 generation vehicles and MY 2008 through 2011 997 generation vehicles built after a process improvement for adhesive application was implemented by the supplier.
In response to ODI’s Information Request letter, Porsche identified a manufacturing quality issue with the supplier’s application of adhesive to coolant pipe fittings that resulted in elevated failure rates in approximately 6,800 early production 997 generation vehicles (MY 2007 and early MY 2008). ODI’s analysis of field data showed that the age-adjusted failure rate for these vehicles was approximately six times greater than MY 2001 through 2005 996 generation vehicles and MY 2008 through 2011 997 generation vehicles built after a process improvement for adhesive application was implemented by the supplier.
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...13009-5428.PDF
Process improvement in mid 2008 MY production. Seems to match what we're seeing - lots of failures in 2007, some in 2008, and very few in 2009.
I have seen some anecdotes of the pipes coming off even in 2010+ cars, but presumably if a thing is glued on, it can come off in at least some circumstances. The failure rate is the thing - and it definitely appears higher for 2007 and early 2008s.
05-09-2017, 12:55 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Short term countermeasures (improved employee training) were implemented by the supplier in July 2007 and by late January 2008 the supplier had introduced an automated metering device for application of adhesive on pipe adapters. ODI estimates that vehicles produced after February 2008 should have parts produced using the new process