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Currently driving a low-mileage 6MT '11 C2S. Absolutely love the car as it's my dream spec (white/red, full leather, sport seats) but as a daily driver, I am starting to grow frustrated with the lack of torque. As result, I've started to search for Turbos. Today, an interested one came for sale:
It's a 6MT 2012 with 60,000 miles. The dealer is asking $73,000.
Additional Equipment
220 Limit Slip Rear Different Lock
342 Heated Seats (Front)
345 Heated Steering Wheel
377 Adaptive Sport Seat (left)
378 Adaptive Sport Seat (right)
635 ParkAssist System (Rear)
844 3-Spoke Multi-Function SW
970 Leather Inter Pkg 2-Tone Combo
A1 Black
BK Black/StoneGreyFull LeatherInt
P01 Adapt Sport Seat Leath DrivMem
Firstly, is this car missing any "must-have" options? I know it doesn't have sport chrono, but neither does my car and quite frankly, unless you're driving a PDK-equipped car, I wouldn't deem it as a "must".
Secondly, I know these cars are very reliable, but does 60k miles extend beyond the threshhold of what most Turbo owners (or perspective owners) are willing to tolerate? In other words, how hooped am I when the car has 75k miles and I want to sell it?
Thirdly, how is it priced? To me it seems fair but I have no idea how the market views these cars (though I do know 6MT .2 Turbos are rare birds).
Seems like a fair price to me. If it had low miles that car would be well into the $80s. Some Porsche shoppers can definitely be weenies about mileage but there will always be buyers looking more for well-maintained examples that they can drive more freely.
The scarcity of .2TT 6mt coupes + good colorway + good options make me think that one will still sell easily with 75k miles on it and probably for around the same price.
Does it need the 60k-mile service? The clutch might also need attention around this point.
Assuming you're not keeping the C2S, I think the better question (and I'm not trying to be patronizing here) is how much more is that car going to cost you over what you can sell your C2S for? Once you figure out that delta, then you need to decide if you think it is worth it.
The short answer to your question is that barring any red flags (accident history, sketchy maintenance history, clutch wear, etc) the car is fairly priced for the year and mileage.
The longer answer involves a story and some observations that may be helpful to you. I came from a 2009 C2 that I did not daily drive and wanted to upgrade to a turbo. I initially started looking at 996 Turbos, but realized that if I could tolerate a few miles, the 997 Turbos weren't TOO much more, and likely would hold their value longer, so I went with a 997. Taxes and titling fees included, I paid about $15K more for my 997.1TT than I sold my 997.2 C2 for. Since I've owned the car, I've done about $7500 worth of work to it in a year... this includes some preventative maintenance, scheduled maintenance and some necessary repairs. So, all in, figure I've paid $22K more for the "privilege" of driving a Turbo vs. my C2. When I put it that way, for a non-daily driver toy, I'm not sure I'd have made the switch to do it all over again. The Turbo is a more special car, and my goodness is it faster, but I'm not getting $20K more enjoyment out of it. But now that I've done the work, my plan is to keep it for the long haul. I could have been happy with the C2, but the chase of the ultimate dream of owning a Turbo led me down this path.
My story may not be typical. Some people, many of them here, much prefer the Turbo over any NA Porsche. I do as well... but I'd probably rather have a clean C2 and $22K in my pocket over the Turbo all things considered. The fact that I'm "stuck" with my Turbo isn't a bad place to be though, and I plan on enjoying it so I get my money's worth!
So, that all said, the other issue is the mileage. While nothing particular happens with these cars at a set mileage, resale absolutely will be affected. If this is a car you're going to daily, you'll rack up the miles quickly. Your market for an 80K+ mile Turbo will be narrow, because many people won't want to pay that kind of dough for a car that is close to that 100K mark. Despite all logic against it, a lot of people believe these cars have an expiration date, and 100K is usually that line of demarcation. My suggestion to you would be to buy the car if you really want it, and then drive the freakin wheels off of it without worrying about resale. Do all of your regular maintenance and enjoy the car well into the 100K mile range. It's not an investment, it's a car meant to be driven. I absolutely would take advantage of the market and purchase a car with 60K miles for a discount over a garage queened car with 20K miles for ten thousand more.
Sorry to have gone long with my response. Good luck!
Agreed on the sport chrono: it doesn't add much value to a 6MT car.
If the car checks out clean (no accidents, no major paint work, clean title, no major issues, etc.), then this looks like a solid deal. It is indeed a rare bird (less than 500 units shipped to NA that were 997.2TT w/ MT.)
I've never seen a 997.2TT 6MT Coupe sell for this low (nor have I seen one for sale with this many miles either!) For reference, the lowest one currently for sale in the US is $89K and it has 36K miles.
I would think lack of SC is a bit of a downer. You lose not only .2 Bar of turbo boost, but also the dynamic engine mounts. It also has the LSD which I understand may not be so desirable since it tends to wear out rather quickly (4-5 track days is what I've heard)
The price seems a bit low to me. I have not seen yet any real 6mt .2TT for sale for less than 85K.
Lastly, in my opinion these cars should not be purchased as "investments" just yet. I think they are depreciating but not as fast as other cars.
I personally would not buy this car as my DD since by the time I'm done with it it will be well over 120K miles and that's too much for any top performance car in my book. I would look for samples under 35K.
On the other hand, if you're only going to use it on weekends (2-3K miles/year), then I think it's a really good buy.
Price is Canadian (near $95-100k CDN) and car has near 100,000km on it with car located in Canada.
I was hoping that option 640 wasn't shown on the build list but actually installed as per my CDN car and another 2011 CDN car I had looked at. However, I found the ad for this car and there is definately no Sport Chrono gauge installed in the center of the dash top. From what I could see of the speedo it appeared to be km/hr so that would make it an original build for Canada car.
As mentioned earlier Sport Chrono adds more than the gauge: 640 Sport Chrono Package Turbo Including Dynamic Engine Mounting Analog and digital chronometer, sport button in the center console and display
in the PCM, also adds ability to adjust lighting, wipers, AC and door locking to
suit personal preference. Additionally, adds dynamic engine mounting. In
conjunction with PDK, includes Sports Plus button in center console to activate
launch control function (Race start). Note: In conjunction with PDK, price is
$3830.
My story may not be typical. Some people, many of them here, much prefer the Turbo over any NA Porsche. I do as well... but I'd probably rather have a clean C2 and $22K in my pocket over the Turbo all things considered. The fact that I'm "stuck" with my Turbo isn't a bad place to be though, and I plan on enjoying it so I get my money's worth!
VBB,
I am in agreement here, but here's the flaw in your (my) story . . . I made the move from a 996 C2 to a 996T to my (now) 997.2T; each step has been marvelously fun. I am in TOTAL agreement that I cannot justify the incremental dollars as being worth it for each "step". In all cases, I could have easily justified keeping what I had and have a bigger bank roll. I will also say that in each case, a $25k or $50k delta isn't going to change my life, so I've made the moves. Here's the thing that gets me (and maybe you), I like what I like. Sure, I'd rather have the money in the bank, but I have a wandering eye for cars and when I want it . . . it usually happens. If I get bored, the value didn't go to $0, so there will be some residual value no matter what happens. Drive what moves you . . . Whose tag line is that? GL KH
I am in agreement here, but here's the flaw in your (my) story . . . I made the move from a 996 C2 to a 996T to my (now) 997.2T; each step has been marvelously fun. I am in TOTAL agreement that I cannot justify the incremental dollars as being worth it for each "step". In all cases, I could have easily justified keeping what I had and have a bigger bank roll. I will also say that in each case, a $25k or $50k delta isn't going to change my life, so I've made the moves. Here's the thing that gets me (and maybe you), I like what I like. Sure, I'd rather have the money in the bank, but I have a wandering eye for cars and when I want it . . . it usually happens. If I get bored, the value didn't go to $0, so there will be some residual value no matter what happens. Drive what moves you . . . Whose tag line is that? GL KH
"Stuck with a Turbo" . . . HaHa!!!
Exactly. When I think about it logically, my 997.2 and $22K-$25K in the bank makes all the sense in the world. When I think about it emotionally, there's nothing like owning a 911 Turbo. It's the car I always wanted. So, I'm "stuck" with the Turbo.
The only 2 other cars under $100K that have the attention of my ever wandering eye towards cars are the 997.2 Turbo and the 997.2 GTS. Very different cars and prices. The Turbo upgrade makes sense as it is a newer, more tech version of the car that I have without the bloat of the 991... the GTS intrigues me. I seriously considered a black on black GTS that was for sale on here a month or so ago.
Not too many cars over $100k can give you anywhere near the excitement of 997TT platform. Yup, I've try several cars from AMG GTS to Audi R8 V10 and the Turbo still here with me. My next car in the line up AMG GTC....!
If you like *LOVE* the car, just get it. Who cares what we think? I think... you should definitely get it. I looked at a 2011 with 53k miles 2.5 years ago for $79999. If it didn't have a bad car fax I would have bought it in a second. It was hit from the rear, minorly, when it only had 3000 miles and was repaired "perfectly" but I was told by 2 dealers not to get it.
Note that in general Canadian cars are cheaper than comparable ones in the US right now, since the exchange rate has moved against the CAD relatively quickly. So if a car is selling for what would be considered fair in the US, it's likely overpriced compared to similar vehicles in Canada. (Of course when it's a .2 6MT there probably aren't any similar vehicles.)
Another thing to consider is that sport chrono gives overboost in a Turbo. You might not care, especially if you plan to tune, but some future buyers will. When I was shopping for mine, I skimmed over the small handful that didn't have it - not because it was vitally important to me, but because it was easy enough to find one that did.
Not saying don't buy it; just things to keep in mind, especially if you would expect to re-sell within a few years.
05-02-2017, 04:36 PM
2012 6MT Turbo w/ 60,000 Miles - What's it worth?
