Team Plutonium

+1.

John W

Thanks guys.
I am in the uk, but it's handy to know.

Never seen that spray before, so will go buy some. I was going to copperslip. I know the base grease melts off, but the copper remains.
I will put the car up in the air this weekend and take a look. I do trust the dealer, but in this case either they have described the problem poorly, or assumed I knew bugger all about cars (granted I've not had cause to go look at this area of this car before, but given the right tools and information I can do anything a mechanic can).

Hopefully it just needs a clean and maybe a new link rod. We shall see.

Incidentally, do the vgt actuators cycle on ignition on, or anything ?
just wondering if there is any way of getting them to cycle with the car stationary / not running, to check them.

Finally, has anyone come up with a cheaper alternative to piwis yet, for the home diyer ?
so I can check fault codes, over revs etc ?

Thanks all. 👍

ctony66

I move mine by hand just to check them whenever I'm under the car. Just keep in mind that one goes upward and one goes down.
Cheers

therock88

Durametric.com Several versions...from checking up to some coding.

DC

Kevin

Yes, the actuators cycle with the key in the 1 o'clock position.

If the VNT nozzle ring is binding, AND the actuator linkage rod IS attached. You will get a CEL..

As stated, you should be able to freely move the actuator linkage rod.

nuclearfishin

Here's a couple videos I just took thinking I might have the same problem with my car. As it turns out I think both actuators are ok.

John W

Well, I have an answer, and its not good

I was passing the service centre this morning, so dropped in and had a chat with the tech guy again, to understand what the service chap had been trying to tell me (imo what he told me didnt quite make sense).

What he said was:
The actuator arm was disconnected frrom the ball joint on the arm attached to the turbo. On inspection it is because the ball joint on the arm is corroded / worn. The actuator arm is corroded / worn too, but to a lesser extent.

I'm at home today, so took a peek under the car.
Sure enough the rod was detached again
Having a play with it, the actuator motor is sprung loaded to return one way, the turbo arm itself is free, and is infact very easy to move.
One side of the ball is worn such that when the actuator pulls it up, the joint disconnects

I've seen the service buletin doc Heliflyer posted on the other 'down on power' thread, and imo what that describes is exactly what I'm suffering.
What I have no idea about though, is where I stand on this. The car is now out of warranty, but has a clear main dealer service history, and is pretty low miles (38k).
If you ask me there is no way this has ever been lubricated before. Certainly the dealer didnt lubricate either of them on this occasion. This is therefore a big heads up to you all. A bit of easy / cheap maintenance could have avoided my issues, and its something Porsche knew about.

Time to try the dealers, and then go searching for someone who might be able to rebuild the turbo, replacing the arm.

An ideas what the model designation is for the BorgWarner turbos ?

Thanks for all your suggestions and help so far. Shame it looks like I'm screwed, and it'll be a new / rebuilt turbo after all.

nzskater

Are you in the UK? An indie is referenced here, might be worth getting in touch.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=960464

deanbyrd

Yes, I am satisfied with above reference...

Thanks!

John W

Thanks nzskater.

Yes I am in the uk.
I am happy to strip the turbo off the car myself, and just get someone to repair it if possible.

I've tried a couple of places and they told me the borg warner info says main dealer only, and doesnt list any repair parts.

I have however found another place that has previously rebuilt / repaired 997 vg turbos, including replacing the actuator arm.
He also said that there are no parts lists for these turbos, but most parts match others from the borg warner turbo range. He believed the actuator arm is the same as that used on VW/Audi 3 litre turbos.
Cost to strip and rebuild including new bearings and seals is ~£300 (assuming the vanes and shaft dont need replacing). The actuator is also checked, and its all realigned. They can collect and return with 10 days too.

So potentially 300 GBP to rebuild the turbo (plus a bunch of bolts etc, that are all corroded) is a lot better than 4100 to replace it

I will post some pictures once I've removed it.

nzskater

Might be worth looking into buying this guys Turbo's.

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...=875688&page=1

John W

Thanks, shipping to the uk and import duty would likely make them dearer than the rebuild though.

John W

Ever had one of those days where you'd wished you hadn't started a job ?

Ok, so i started the turbo removal, at 10 am.
Thanks to the rocks diy docs, I had the rear bumper and both intercoolers off in pretty quick time.
I made Two deviations. I jacked the car up and didn't remove the wheels. Getting to one of the wheel liner bolts was fiddly, but only took a few more minutes. Also, I disconnected the intercooler at either end by pulling the big metal circlip thing, rather than disconnecting at the Y piece. I did subsequently remove these hoses, and the Y piece too, but more of that later.

I took a bit of time on how best to remove the turbos.
Now on a new car this might be easy, but on an 8 year old car where these have never been off before, it is best described as a feckin nightmare.
All of the nuts on the studs to both the headers and cat were so corroded there was no chance of getting a spanner on them. I did manage to get some of the studs out with 5 hole stilsons. Unfortunately there is still one stud on the side closest the engine that is not accessible.
Consequently the turbos need to come off complete with headers and silencer.
fortunately all the header bolts losened easily.

Back to the turbos, they have the oil catch tank, a pair of oil lines, and a pair of coolant lines, plus another smaller one.
The catch tank is alloy, and the lines appear to be stainless. Perfect combination for serious corrosion.
getting the bolts out was fine, even though each bolt is hidden by the pipe in front of it, but getting the unions out was a mare.
The holes they push into are corroded above the o ring, so a fair bit of wiggling, levering, spraying with wd 40, oh and a lot of swearing was required. This took a couple of hours just to do the rhs turbo pipes.
Then I disconnected the rhs lambda connections, and what I guess is the EGT sensor.
just the bolt in the bracket above the turbo holding this side on, and that is loose.

5 hours in :/

Now the lhs turbo. Pretty much the Same story with all the stud nuts, header bolts, catch tank, etc.
3 nightmares though. Getting the EGT out of the manifold took ages, as a thread picked up and so it's buggered the sensor
Trying to get the lambda wiring down past the engine was entertaining, as the wires are clipped in place below the engine mount with a bunch of other wiring, and you can't really see. At this point the y pipe and air box got removed so i could both see a bit more and get my hands in.
As for the 3rd thing, the small pipe going to the turbo is not playing ball. The bolt is out and it has lifted maby 1mm, but it does not want to come out.

So after 10 hours I gave up and came in.
I still need to get that damn pipe out of the turbo, then drop the whole lot and seperate the turbos from the headers and silencer. It looks like the straps holding the silencers up have never been undone too, so i will have to cut the bolts and replace the straps (the straps aren't cheap are they !)

I now need to figure out how easy it would be to drop the engine sufficiently to potentially replace the pipe (so any details on this gratefully received) as it's looking likely that I will have to / end up destroying the pipe. You can see all these pipes on pet diagram 202-05.
I will probably replace the catch tanks due to their corrosion, and all the nuts, bolts, and o rings.

Hopefully I can get this finished tomorrow, the turbos sent off for rebuild, and maybe all back together next weekend.
Sometimes I hate cars

ctony66

I feel your pain. Not much goes right when I try a job like that on my car either. A dremel comes in handy for header removal. The upper flange nuts are tough. New hardware is the key along with pb blaster. I will be swapping my turbos in the coming weeks and I'm sure it will be the same nightmare. As far as lowering the engine it's not that bad. Just loosen the nuts as low as they will go without removing them and lower the engine with the floor jack.
Good luck and you will be happy when your driving it again.
Cheers

John W

Thanks Tony.

I've got a Dremel but couldn't get it in to the remaining turbo to cat nut.

A good night's sleep and I'm ready to go again. Ish

Looked up the parts prices to cheer myself up, not.
Oil catch tanks are 165 gbp each.
The oil supply pipe that is stuck is not bad at a mere 58 gbp
the EGT sensor though is 440 gbp
Plus the silencer straps at 38 gbp each.

Not as bad as it could have been, and no doubt the dealers would probably have encountered the same, unless they managed to get the turbo off the cat without dropping the silencer.

I have some pictures I took, which I will post up shortly.