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You need the studs as well, they're on a seperate page in the catalogue (the one detailing the turbos).
You've just spent $xxxx on an exhaust, to go onto an $80k car. Spend the extra $50 and get new ones. But yeah can probably reuse anything that has no corrosion
The washers look rusted in your pic, as do the studs etc on the engine/header side. I'd get under the car and build a shopping list for all the rusted fasteners, and replace in one go (for me it was every stud/nut/washer from the headers to the exhaust tips).
You need the studs as well, they're on a seperate page in the catalogue (the one detailing the turbos).
You've just spent $xxxx on an exhaust, to go onto an $80k car. Spend the extra $50 and get new ones. But yeah can probably reuse anything that has no corrosion
The washers look rusted in your pic, as do the studs etc on the engine/header side. I'd get under the car and build a shopping list for all the rusted fasteners, and replace in one go (for me it was every stud/nut/washer from the headers to the exhaust tips).
lol exhaust came with the car... has about 15k on it. No issue spending $100 on nuts and bolts just found it laughable.
So I'm actually in the middle of the exhaust install and I thought I'd post a quick update because I'm pretty surprised to see that one of the cats has collapsed And the other is completely blown out! I hope that didn't screw up the muffler. I got to say this is been quite a job and an all day project, glad I'm doing it Just hope the install goes smoother than extracting the cats which was almost locked on with rusty bolts.
Remind me to stay away from whatever brand exhsust that is!
You're doing a good job keep plugging away
C
lol thanks!
So it's all done... 9 hours later. Took a total of 8 hours + couple breaks. Few things to add some background. The car has a BBI exhaust, installed by Evolution Motorsports in Scottsdale AZ at 11k miles. Car now has 30xxx miles. I have to check the date but the exhaust was installed at least 3 years ago. This job was not easy, not due to figuring it all out, but mostly because Evo when they installed the exhaust completely tossed out how to properly torque everything. Ever single nut and bolt was so seized that it was a huge PITA. The O2 sensors, insane. We had to practically break them off, luckily they eventually came off and only a little denting occurred, hopefully didn't screw them up.
Also the tight space and tools needed to get some of the parts off was very trying. But thank to my uncle's garage of every tool known to man we were able to get it all done.
As i stated above, the backstory is that the cats threw codes at about 17k miles after install. That was about 3k miles ago and I finally got around to swapping them. I have to say I'm thankful to BBI for having a great response to replacing the cats for free, after they went prematurely. However I'm really just surprised how bad of shape the cats were, I mean is it normal that a cat completely disintegrated? LOL I don't know if these were cheap crap cats or the tune is too much and needs to be detuned. But that damage to the cats after such a short time is surprising to me.
Anyways, after all the sweat here are some photos and a quick write up.
There was certainly a lot of trickery to get these things out which included removing some engine mount brackets and heat shields. Also some crows foot wrenching and tons of elbow grease.
The below is where the cat hooks up to the turbo, To get in here required some brain power since there is no room with a wrench or socket wrench to reach the bolts. Key was a crows foot at the end of the socket wrench extension and lots and lots of turning to get through all the rust.
There were tons of rusted clamps that ended up breaking 2 allen keys which we had to cut and cut to finally get the clamps off. Absolutely insane to get off. Sorry for the crappy photo
The bracket you see here is between the engine and exhaust, this has to come off to make room for the cats to push backwards and then be twisted down for removal from the muffler sleeve. We quickly learned that this helps hold the tranny/engine in place. This required a tall transmission jack stand to hold up the engine in place as we removed the screws. Then placed the screws back in to hold the engine properly with no bracket in the way.
Now for the O2 sensors. mother of god, probably the most difficult part. Should have been a piece of cake to remove. Nope! So we deicded to release the O2 sensor from the rear engine compartment and just take the whole cat off with the sensor still attached. As previously mentioned they were on so tight that it took 2-3 of us to break them loose. Once off we properly installed them with sealant so they won't seize
One we took out was dented from the install by Evo Motorsports or someone else before me, I sure as hell didn't do it. We did dent one a little with the O2 kit due to the seizing. Praying it's not an issue. The fact that mustang O2s cost $40 and Porsche cost $250 is absurd, going to give the dent a shot before getting worried about it as they should last a long time and no way should be bad at 30k.
Didn't get the best pics but after soaking all the nuts and bolts in rust remover the install was much easier.
Few photos of the garge, uncle is insanely organized with his tools, he's built his own Triumph from the ground up and knows his ****. Great way to learn and happy I did it myself.
Lastly on the drive home, well I got more codes:
The code that started this all
OBD Code P0430
Basically this means that the oxygen sensor downstream of the catalytic converter on bank 2 is detecting that the converter is not working as efficiently as it should be (according to specs). It is part of the vehicle emissions system.
OBD Code P0030
Oxygen Sensors (O2S) or Heated Oxygen Sensors (HO2S) need to reach a minimum operating temperature of 750 degrees F to produce an accurate voltage signal. The faster the heated oxygen sensor reaches that temperature the faster the sensor will start sending an accurate signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM). In order to achieve the require temperature, a heater element is included inside the heated oxygen sensor. The ECM controls the heated oxygen sensor heater element based on signals from the engine coolant temperature and engine load. The ECM controls the heater element circuit by allowing current flow to ground. The ECM monitors the voltage signal received through the heater element circuit and determines the state of the circuit by comparing the voltage detected with the factory specifications.
OBD Code P0050
Oxygen Sensors (O2S) or Heated Oxygen Sensors (HO2S) need to reach a minimum operating temperature of 750 degrees F to produce an accurate voltage signal. The faster the heated oxygen sensor reaches that temperature the faster the sensor will start sending an accurate signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM). In order to achieve the require temperature, a heater element is included inside the heated oxygen sensor. The ECM controls the heated oxygen sensor heater element based on signals from the engine coolant temperature and engine load. The ECM controls the heater element circuit by allowing current flow to ground. The ECM monitors the voltage signal received through the heater element circuit and determines the state of the circuit by comparing the voltage detected with the factory specifications.
Now i'm just hoping that it takes a while for the codes to clear and readings to be A-OK. I cleared them last night and will wait to see if they pop back on.
Last thing I need to do after all this is take it to the local shop to have an allen key loosened to straighten out the pipes since they are now crooked, after all that one allen key was so seized that we just couldn't get it off and well it's a little cross eyed from behind right now. But that's small cookies compared to what the install took.
Glad to answer any questions, but that was my Sunday and i'm feeling it today LOL
Wow, that is interesting to look at the old one.. almost looks like something hit it..
Good job on the install, I know it's a pain to clean up after someone else's work.. (I digress..I did the brakes on my vintage Saab about 2 weeks ago and found out the last time I had my tires taken off (not by me) they torqued the wheel lugs so tight I couldn't get them off.. I had to get a 1 ft extension on my already long 2 ft breaker bar.. AND stand on the damn thing.. sheesh.. musta be over 250 ft/lbs; spec was 95 lb/fts.)
My turbo nuts weren't too rusty, but still was quite a chore to get them off. I ended up replacing mine when I did the new exhaust.
Those new codes may indicate that the heater circuit is broken. (infinite resistance) Hopefully not and they don't reappear.
I was worried about "wrapping" the electrical connector for the O2 sensors, so I elected (like you) to just remove it from the car as a single unit and work on it that way.. less stress on the harness and other bits..
I didn't have to remove any brackets, but I'm sure that's more dependent on the specific exhaust being fitted.
I did get lots of practice in working the turbo flange nuts.. I got everything tightened up (according to the Speedtech instructions sent with the kit) only to find out that you are supposed to keep them LOOSE until you fit the muffler in..and THEN tighten them. Doh! the one time I follow the provided instructions and they are wrong..
It sounds like a bad O2. For P0430, take the effected O2 sensor(bank 2)out and swap it to bank one(wire and everything). If the code follows the sensor and switches to a bank 1 code, then you know the sensor is bad.
If it stays as a bank 2 code, it could be something else. The position 1 sensor codes leads me to believe that you need new sensors(IMO). I would do 4 new sensors all around after you verify. PLease let me know if I can be of any help!
It sounds like a bad O2. For P0430, take the effected O2 sensor(bank 2)out and swap it to bank one(wire and everything). If the code follows the sensor and switches to a bank 1 code, then you know the sensor is bad.
If it stays as a bank 2 code, it could be something else. The position 1 sensor codes leads me to believe that you need new sensors(IMO). I would do 4 new sensors all around after you verify. PLease let me know if I can be of any help!
not what i want to hear, but thanks for the help. I'll likely wait until inspection time. I have new cats on and should be running clean now. I'm trying to remember a month where I didn't have to fix a car.
The danger when a cat cuts loose like that are fragments traveling retrograde into the turbo, trashing the whole thing. Carefully look at your impeller blades before you button it up.
not what i want to hear, but thanks for the help. I'll likely wait until inspection time. I have new cats on and should be running clean now. I'm trying to remember a month where I didn't have to fix a car.
You and me both! I have a 13 year old M3
I would recommend figuring out those sensor 1 O2 codes asap. The P0430 code really doesn't matter, that's just a cat efficiency code. No other problems aside from a CEL.
The primary O2 sesnors are what analyze the burnt gases coming out of the combustion chamber and adjust the af/r as needed, they are important to have working correctly.
The car may also need to go through a readiness cycle. Let me know if they come back and what they are.
The danger when a cat cuts loose like that are fragments traveling retrograde into the turbo, trashing the whole thing. Carefully look at your impeller blades before you button it up.
I can't think under any situation where this would happen. There should never be a vacuum condition post turbo, even when under engine vavuum. Unless that impeller starts spinning backwards or there is literally a stoppage in the pipe where any particles can't get past and just swirl around. Neither of those things should ever happen.
I would recommend figuring out those sensor 1 O2 codes asap. The P0430 code really doesn't matter, that's just a cat efficiency code. No other problems aside from a CEL.
The primary O2 sesnors are what analyze the burnt gases coming out of the combustion chamber and adjust the af/r as needed, they are important to have working correctly.
The car may also need to go through a readiness cycle. Let me know if they come back and what they are.
I'm hoping it's just a readiness cycle, and I'll see what happens after I put some miles on the car, it has a tune so hopefully there's nothing screwy with the gas combustion
A little late now....But maybe for others. When you need to get the Cat Bolts off, they are tough (the back ones)...These U and S wrenches are great for that part. They also come in ratcheting versions.
05-11-2015, 01:25 PM
