Pentosin leak from the big reservoir, how can this happen?
06-27-2012, 08:00 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Pentosin leak from the big reservoir, how can this happen?
I've had a pentosin leak in the front and also in the rear.
Porsche replaced the accumulator, the front leak stopped but it is still dripping from the rear.
They have checked the slave and said it was fine, and the leak is actually from the main reservoir in the engine compartment.
There are two lines going into the reservoir and between them and the reservoir there are two red "plastic security things" (don't know their technical name, sorry, English is not my first language), you see them on the right side of the reservoir, and one of them (or both, I do not remember) is dripping.
Porsche said I can still drive, no danger of fire, but I will have to replace the reservoir eventually (the red security seals cannot be replaced separately). Ther reservoir costs more than the slave cylinder!
Porsche gave me a canister of Pentosin fluid, so I will be filling in from time to time. When the car stands in a garage overnight there is a puddle 5cm in diameter on the floor under the engine.
Has anyone ever had/seen/heard of this kind of leak and why could it happen?
Porsche replaced the accumulator, the front leak stopped but it is still dripping from the rear.
They have checked the slave and said it was fine, and the leak is actually from the main reservoir in the engine compartment.
There are two lines going into the reservoir and between them and the reservoir there are two red "plastic security things" (don't know their technical name, sorry, English is not my first language), you see them on the right side of the reservoir, and one of them (or both, I do not remember) is dripping.
Porsche said I can still drive, no danger of fire, but I will have to replace the reservoir eventually (the red security seals cannot be replaced separately). Ther reservoir costs more than the slave cylinder!
Porsche gave me a canister of Pentosin fluid, so I will be filling in from time to time. When the car stands in a garage overnight there is a puddle 5cm in diameter on the floor under the engine.
Has anyone ever had/seen/heard of this kind of leak and why could it happen?
06-27-2012, 09:39 AM
#2
Race Director
I've had a pentosin leak in the front and also in the rear.
Porsche replaced the accumulator, the front leak stopped but it is still dripping from the rear.
They have checked the slave and said it was fine, and the leak is actually from the main reservoir in the engine compartment.
There are two lines going into the reservoir and between them and the reservoir there are two red "plastic security things" (don't know their technical name, sorry, English is not my first language), you see them on the right side of the reservoir, and one of them (or both, I do not remember) is dripping.
Porsche said I can still drive, no danger of fire, but I will have to replace the reservoir eventually (the red security seals cannot be replaced separately). Ther reservoir costs more than the slave cylinder!
Porsche gave me a canister of Pentosin fluid, so I will be filling in from time to time. When the car stands in a garage overnight there is a puddle 5cm in diameter on the floor under the engine.
Has anyone ever had/seen/heard of this kind of leak and why could it happen?
Porsche replaced the accumulator, the front leak stopped but it is still dripping from the rear.
They have checked the slave and said it was fine, and the leak is actually from the main reservoir in the engine compartment.
There are two lines going into the reservoir and between them and the reservoir there are two red "plastic security things" (don't know their technical name, sorry, English is not my first language), you see them on the right side of the reservoir, and one of them (or both, I do not remember) is dripping.
Porsche said I can still drive, no danger of fire, but I will have to replace the reservoir eventually (the red security seals cannot be replaced separately). Ther reservoir costs more than the slave cylinder!
Porsche gave me a canister of Pentosin fluid, so I will be filling in from time to time. When the car stands in a garage overnight there is a puddle 5cm in diameter on the floor under the engine.
Has anyone ever had/seen/heard of this kind of leak and why could it happen?
Why the leak?
Any hydraulic system can leak, to state the obvious.
There are fittings, hoses, seals, anyone of which can fail and leak.
Pressure test fittings can leak. Those "two red plastic security things" you refer to could be pressure test fittings/points caps.
In some cases (fuel lines for one) these test fittings caps/seals are not reusable but it is hard to believe an OPC would fail to replace one of these if this were the case for the power steering, clutch hydraulic system.
A leak on a low pressure part of the system can have air introduced to the fluid which can cause it to foam and leak from around the cap or even through the cap's vent hole.
A pressure relief valve can fail and overpressure can force fluid past seals that would otherwise, well, seal.
Those are just my WAGS.
Why the leak?
The best place to ask this question is where you have/had the car worked on, the dealer/OPC. Someone there should be able to tell you why and if not contact Porsche and someone at the factory will know or know who to ask at the factory.
If you get an answer come back and let us know. I for one would interested. (I'm starting to learn about the 997 Turbo in case I decide at some point to upgrade to one from my 996 Turbo.)
Even though you have a can of fluid to top up the tank, if it were me and my car leaking I'd have this taken care of right away. Pentosin can damage rubber and I'm not sure it all that great a fluid to get on anything else either.
Sincerely,
Macster.
06-30-2012, 12:03 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
"clutch slave cylinder"
Yes, that was the first idea as I had leaks both front and rear. Porsche replaced the accumulator and the front leak stopped, but not the rear.
It is NOT clutch slave cylinder and I will tell you why (or, rather, Porsche told me why): because the rear leak is towards the end of the engine! The slave cylinder sits close (above?) the gearbox, and the leak I have is nowhere near those regions. No, it is the main reservoir leaking, the red seals are leaking, one can stick the fingers behind the reservoir and then one has the fluid on the fingers. Someone pulled the lines for some reason, Porsche told me, and pulling these lines damaged the seals, the whole reservoir has to be replaced.
The car had full clutch replacement (including the flywheel) just 3000 miles before I bought the car, the work was done by an authorized Porsche Service Center and I wonder if they pulled the lines. But for what possible reason would they do such a thing?
Also, the car was on rolling road at Sportec right after I bought the car (Sportec was the original tuner of the car). I think they disconnect front drive when they rolling-road the Turbo. Would that be a reason for pulling the lines to pentosin reservoir?
Yes, that was the first idea as I had leaks both front and rear. Porsche replaced the accumulator and the front leak stopped, but not the rear.
It is NOT clutch slave cylinder and I will tell you why (or, rather, Porsche told me why): because the rear leak is towards the end of the engine! The slave cylinder sits close (above?) the gearbox, and the leak I have is nowhere near those regions. No, it is the main reservoir leaking, the red seals are leaking, one can stick the fingers behind the reservoir and then one has the fluid on the fingers. Someone pulled the lines for some reason, Porsche told me, and pulling these lines damaged the seals, the whole reservoir has to be replaced.
The car had full clutch replacement (including the flywheel) just 3000 miles before I bought the car, the work was done by an authorized Porsche Service Center and I wonder if they pulled the lines. But for what possible reason would they do such a thing?
Also, the car was on rolling road at Sportec right after I bought the car (Sportec was the original tuner of the car). I think they disconnect front drive when they rolling-road the Turbo. Would that be a reason for pulling the lines to pentosin reservoir?
06-30-2012, 12:56 PM
#5
Race Director
"clutch slave cylinder"
Yes, that was the first idea as I had leaks both front and rear. Porsche replaced the accumulator and the front leak stopped, but not the rear.
It is NOT clutch slave cylinder and I will tell you why (or, rather, Porsche told me why): because the rear leak is towards the end of the engine! The slave cylinder sits close (above?) the gearbox, and the leak I have is nowhere near those regions. No, it is the main reservoir leaking, the red seals are leaking, one can stick the fingers behind the reservoir and then one has the fluid on the fingers. Someone pulled the lines for some reason, Porsche told me, and pulling these lines damaged the seals, the whole reservoir has to be replaced.
The car had full clutch replacement (including the flywheel) just 3000 miles before I bought the car, the work was done by an authorized Porsche Service Center and I wonder if they pulled the lines. But for what possible reason would they do such a thing?
Also, the car was on rolling road at Sportec right after I bought the car (Sportec was the original tuner of the car). I think they disconnect front drive when they rolling-road the Turbo. Would that be a reason for pulling the lines to pentosin reservoir?
Yes, that was the first idea as I had leaks both front and rear. Porsche replaced the accumulator and the front leak stopped, but not the rear.
It is NOT clutch slave cylinder and I will tell you why (or, rather, Porsche told me why): because the rear leak is towards the end of the engine! The slave cylinder sits close (above?) the gearbox, and the leak I have is nowhere near those regions. No, it is the main reservoir leaking, the red seals are leaking, one can stick the fingers behind the reservoir and then one has the fluid on the fingers. Someone pulled the lines for some reason, Porsche told me, and pulling these lines damaged the seals, the whole reservoir has to be replaced.
The car had full clutch replacement (including the flywheel) just 3000 miles before I bought the car, the work was done by an authorized Porsche Service Center and I wonder if they pulled the lines. But for what possible reason would they do such a thing?
Also, the car was on rolling road at Sportec right after I bought the car (Sportec was the original tuner of the car). I think they disconnect front drive when they rolling-road the Turbo. Would that be a reason for pulling the lines to pentosin reservoir?
Or it was done by accident or by mistake.
Just a heads up. Work done at a dealer is covered by a warranty. The parts are covered for one year and labor for 2 years, and both for 24K miles.
Whatever the reason the lines were pulled if they are leaking that should be covered by a warranty unless the warranty has expired on time or miles.
When I get back to my stomping grounds I'll try to remember to speak to a tech about this. I'm curious for my Turbo will be in shortly to get is power steering tank/valve replaced to quiet a squeal from the valve.
Oh, sorry, I forgot you are not in the USA. The warranty time/miles I guoted is for USA cars/customers. I do not know what is the repair/parts warranty policy in Switzerland.
Even if the warranty expired I'd push for some goodwill. It it based on what you report, what the OPC told you, the leaks arise from some action that was done by a tech that should not have been done.
Be calm, but stress that goodwill -- absent any existing warranty on this work -- was made for situations like this. Where you had the car worked on owed you reasonable skill, experience and care in working on your, repairing your car.
By the OPC's own admission, you obviously didn't get these.
Sincerely,
Macster.
06-30-2012, 02:09 PM
#6
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The clutch slave and accum share with the pwr steering, hence leaks back n front. Mine was replaced under goodwill 20k after the warranty expired, really up to the service mngr how much they will push your case.
Last edited by TT Surgeon; 06-30-2012 at 06:03 PM.
07-02-2012, 03:51 PM
#7
Race Director
I've had a pentosin leak in the front and also in the rear.
Porsche replaced the accumulator, the front leak stopped but it is still dripping from the rear.
They have checked the slave and said it was fine, and the leak is actually from the main reservoir in the engine compartment.
There are two lines going into the reservoir and between them and the reservoir there are two red "plastic security things" (don't know their technical name, sorry, English is not my first language), you see them on the right side of the reservoir, and one of them (or both, I do not remember) is dripping.
Porsche said I can still drive, no danger of fire, but I will have to replace the reservoir eventually (the red security seals cannot be replaced separately). Ther reservoir costs more than the slave cylinder!
Porsche gave me a canister of Pentosin fluid, so I will be filling in from time to time. When the car stands in a garage overnight there is a puddle 5cm in diameter on the floor under the engine.
Has anyone ever had/seen/heard of this kind of leak and why could it happen?
Porsche replaced the accumulator, the front leak stopped but it is still dripping from the rear.
They have checked the slave and said it was fine, and the leak is actually from the main reservoir in the engine compartment.
There are two lines going into the reservoir and between them and the reservoir there are two red "plastic security things" (don't know their technical name, sorry, English is not my first language), you see them on the right side of the reservoir, and one of them (or both, I do not remember) is dripping.
Porsche said I can still drive, no danger of fire, but I will have to replace the reservoir eventually (the red security seals cannot be replaced separately). Ther reservoir costs more than the slave cylinder!
Porsche gave me a canister of Pentosin fluid, so I will be filling in from time to time. When the car stands in a garage overnight there is a puddle 5cm in diameter on the floor under the engine.
Has anyone ever had/seen/heard of this kind of leak and why could it happen?
Unfortunately I've been so busy last week dealing with family issues I was worn out this AM when I stopped at the dealer and asked about leaks in the power steering pump/lines/fittings/couplings area I asked in reference to a 996 Turbo and not a 997 Turbo.
However, I think what I learned still applies, but no guarantee.
The fittings/connectors were described to me and even though I thought I had a reasonably good knowledge of these things I had never recalled coming across anything like the description. Or course there was no car in for this to show me directly.
Anyhow, what I was told was that those are special fittings/couplings and they are a real pain -- sometimes -- to get apart. In the 996 Turbo they are easy to get at, relatively speaking -- the techs' words were of all the models the 996 Turbo is the easiest to work on in this area -- but they can become corroded and hard to disconnect. In disconnecting them they can become compromised and leak afterwards.
A prelim step is to soak the things with penetrating oil for a while -- overnight? -- and then they usually come apart and go back together again and remain leak free.
The most senior tech admitted he had a leak result from a job he did.
The fix is to replace one or both lines. I sort of gathered from between the lines if these leak it is not considered something the tech inflicted on the car but rather a wear item, an item that because of the area being exposed to corrosive conditions becomes a wear item.
Kind of like exhaust manifold fasteners. The techs tell me almost invariably with at least older cars when an exhaust manifold has to come off the car the est. allows for the extra labor (not much) to address a broken bolt or a snapped stud.
We got interrupted about this time and I was not able to ask for any more details, for instance does just one line/fitting/coupling have to be replaced or are both done in general principles; how much does it cost to replace the leaking line/fitting/coupling?
Sincerely,
Macster.
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09-10-2012, 11:51 PM
#8
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Hi, just came across this thread and great information about the leak and lines. To add a bit more information from what I've been able to research, the two lines are the low pressure return lines from the power steering rack and slave cylinder. If you were to look at the lines from the passenger side, the thinner tube would be from the slave cylinder and the larger hose would be from the power steering system.
Page 664 of the repair manual shows the diagram. Apparently the red rings are sort of quick disconnects, but as Mcaster writes, they can become corroded, but the clutch line needs to be disconnected in order to verify and identify if the clutch system check valves (there are 2 of them) are working properly. When they fail, apparently, the result can simulate a failed accumulator, which makes sense to me, since it appears the accumulator is simply a pneumatic spring to assist the system when the p/s pump is not turning, and if the check valves are leaking, the system will loose pressure from the accumulator pushing the fluid back to the reservoir until there is no more pressure.
That being said, unfortunately the recommended solution from Porsche is to replace the entire part, either the slave or the reservoir, and they do not sell the individual check valve.
I would guess the problem you have is a failed fitting, and perhaps the check valve as well.
I've attached a pretty poor image to the pump from the manual. Good luck.
Page 664 of the repair manual shows the diagram. Apparently the red rings are sort of quick disconnects, but as Mcaster writes, they can become corroded, but the clutch line needs to be disconnected in order to verify and identify if the clutch system check valves (there are 2 of them) are working properly. When they fail, apparently, the result can simulate a failed accumulator, which makes sense to me, since it appears the accumulator is simply a pneumatic spring to assist the system when the p/s pump is not turning, and if the check valves are leaking, the system will loose pressure from the accumulator pushing the fluid back to the reservoir until there is no more pressure.
That being said, unfortunately the recommended solution from Porsche is to replace the entire part, either the slave or the reservoir, and they do not sell the individual check valve.
I would guess the problem you have is a failed fitting, and perhaps the check valve as well.
I've attached a pretty poor image to the pump from the manual. Good luck.
Last edited by RangerDick; 04-04-2013 at 07:40 PM.
09-11-2012, 11:16 AM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
Even though there was an attempt to replace only parts of the reservoir, in the end the whole reservoir had to be replaced. I have a 3rd party warranty so it was covered by it, otherwise would have been quite expensive.
Thanks for info, RangerDick.
I thank everyone who contributed to this thread.
Thanks for info, RangerDick.
I thank everyone who contributed to this thread.
04-06-2016, 10:57 PM
#10
Ok, I have some info on this...
Unfortunately I've been so busy last week dealing with family issues I was worn out this AM when I stopped at the dealer and asked about leaks in the power steering pump/lines/fittings/couplings area I asked in reference to a 996 Turbo and not a 997 Turbo.
However, I think what I learned still applies, but no guarantee.
The fittings/connectors were described to me and even though I thought I had a reasonably good knowledge of these things I had never recalled coming across anything like the description. Or course there was no car in for this to show me directly.
Anyhow, what I was told was that those are special fittings/couplings and they are a real pain -- sometimes -- to get apart. In the 996 Turbo they are easy to get at, relatively speaking -- the techs' words were of all the models the 996 Turbo is the easiest to work on in this area -- but they can become corroded and hard to disconnect. In disconnecting them they can become compromised and leak afterwards.
A prelim step is to soak the things with penetrating oil for a while -- overnight? -- and then they usually come apart and go back together again and remain leak free.
The most senior tech admitted he had a leak result from a job he did.
The fix is to replace one or both lines. I sort of gathered from between the lines if these leak it is not considered something the tech inflicted on the car but rather a wear item, an item that because of the area being exposed to corrosive conditions becomes a wear item.
Kind of like exhaust manifold fasteners. The techs tell me almost invariably with at least older cars when an exhaust manifold has to come off the car the est. allows for the extra labor (not much) to address a broken bolt or a snapped stud.
We got interrupted about this time and I was not able to ask for any more details, for instance does just one line/fitting/coupling have to be replaced or are both done in general principles; how much does it cost to replace the leaking line/fitting/coupling?
Sincerely,
Macster.
Unfortunately I've been so busy last week dealing with family issues I was worn out this AM when I stopped at the dealer and asked about leaks in the power steering pump/lines/fittings/couplings area I asked in reference to a 996 Turbo and not a 997 Turbo.
However, I think what I learned still applies, but no guarantee.
The fittings/connectors were described to me and even though I thought I had a reasonably good knowledge of these things I had never recalled coming across anything like the description. Or course there was no car in for this to show me directly.
Anyhow, what I was told was that those are special fittings/couplings and they are a real pain -- sometimes -- to get apart. In the 996 Turbo they are easy to get at, relatively speaking -- the techs' words were of all the models the 996 Turbo is the easiest to work on in this area -- but they can become corroded and hard to disconnect. In disconnecting them they can become compromised and leak afterwards.
A prelim step is to soak the things with penetrating oil for a while -- overnight? -- and then they usually come apart and go back together again and remain leak free.
The most senior tech admitted he had a leak result from a job he did.
The fix is to replace one or both lines. I sort of gathered from between the lines if these leak it is not considered something the tech inflicted on the car but rather a wear item, an item that because of the area being exposed to corrosive conditions becomes a wear item.
Kind of like exhaust manifold fasteners. The techs tell me almost invariably with at least older cars when an exhaust manifold has to come off the car the est. allows for the extra labor (not much) to address a broken bolt or a snapped stud.
We got interrupted about this time and I was not able to ask for any more details, for instance does just one line/fitting/coupling have to be replaced or are both done in general principles; how much does it cost to replace the leaking line/fitting/coupling?
Sincerely,
Macster.
