Whoopsy

So your whole point is still based on a perfect launch on the Z06 in order for it to be faster, you are still discounting the TT's launch advantage. Even the guys racing in the Top Fuel dragsters don't get perfect launches every time. Basically, in 10 tries, maybe 2 of those times the Z06 will get the 'perfect' launch and be ahead, but more often than not the TT is just gonna walk away and the Z06 playing catchup the whole time, until the 1/4 mark where the extra HP in the Z06 pulls it faster around the TT.

With car performances this close, driver is basically the difference, while the Z06 needs a good launch for good times, the TT is just about as idiot-proof and consistant as you can find.

Don't knock the AWD, last I check, the faster production car on the planet is the Veyron and it too has AWD.

Whoopsy

Almost forgot, since Wannabe is so good at finding numbers to diss the TT, why don't you go dig out the 0-300km/h time and see if it's as good as the one posted. Granted the TT in question is modded but if the stock Z06 time is faste than the posted one, then no question the stock Z06 is faster than a stock TT. I officially challenged you to find that time

wanna911

LOL, I would agree with that whole point except the first line, power is a primary (with torque being the other) for acceleration. You have helped me prove my point, while a typical driver in a TT may be able to come close to a Z06 in ET, it will not be close in trap speed, why, because the TT can launch more consistently at decent rates. But that is the only reason, after that the car is accelerating slower all the way up to 165 mph.


As for the turbo, it would need mods just like the Z06 to complete an enduro unless you have PCCB, but with a couple of mods can spank Z06s pretty well. In fact I've beaten several modded Z06 drivers on slicks, with street tires, because of AWD, and good drivers too. Some weight loss will help for an enduro but the turbo is a potent track lap blazer.

eclou

I'm not convinced the TT would be good on an enduro - not that it would break down but eventually heat soak is going to occur, oil temps may get too high, and the weight of the TT will get the tires pretty greasy. When I track my TT, I am surprised that the oil temps don't get over 210/220 on 25-30 minute sessions. Porsche did spec a decent cooling system but 90-150 minute sprints might tax it.

wanna911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6EiN...elated&search=

This is from Motor Trend. Still faster than the other test, by almost 5 seconds.

Thought I might add that the driver is short shifting here as he has missed almost all of the shift points by 5 mph.

You can see the Z06 steadily pulls to 155, the slows a tad till 15 and then crawls a bit, if you think the stock turbo is still blazing you obviously have never driven these types of speeds before. Both cars would be crawling just the TT crawling faster due to less resistance, but you can see that even with bad shifting, the Z pulls like a train, the gears are WAYYYYYY OFF, 1rst gear goes to 60 mph so I dont know what that extra shift is in there and he only uses 3rd for about 20 mph total which is very bad. A good driver could improve this time by 5 seconds or so with proper shifts.

wanna911

The Veyron has 1001 HP, doesnt matter what the drivetrain is it's going to be fastest.

You have obviously neve launched a TT, they are a pain to launch even with the AWD. You can spin all four tires easily, so dont take it for granted, and lets not forget there is a new technique that has been discovered for launching the Z, you can search it but I promise you people are consitently getting 1.8 60' times using this method which is what a good TT driver would avg. I was just giving the TT the benefit of the doubt in that area, but dont take that for granted. If the person driving is a VERY good driver, which I would imagine should be the case when cars are tested against each other in magazines to get accurate comparisons, then he will be able to match launches in the TT and the Z06 with numerous tries. Lets not forget that generally cars are testing in sessions and they take the fastest time of the session to compare, that's why consistency isnt a big factor here because in a session, one should be able to get at least one decent launch on the Z which all but negates the first advantage of the TT. The second advantage, in this case comes in too late to make up the difference. Now if you were racing on the street, like I said before, it's a drivers race, but for mag testing, mediocre aspects of the test only contaminate the results, it has to be best effort vs best effort to say that one car is faster than the other and we havent seen that.

mikegee

I traded my 2006 Z06 for a 07 C4s. I have owned 5 corvettes and three Porsches in my 60 years, and I have never driven any of them on a real track. I did have a set of mickey thompson slicks for this last Chevy, and went to ALLCOMERS nite at the strip. I have enjoyed a couple second places against modded cars..as I am an experienced driver, but not an experienced race driver. The z06 is prone to wheel hop, but it is truly a butt buster. On a rural backroad, you need to have plenty of space, because it will get all over the road. And yes, I have driven it at 165 on the interstate, and it reminded me of the other vettes I owned: It began to wobble and shimmy, and there would be the great Chevrolet high speed tendency to take flight. I really never felt comfortable in it. I love my C4S, but I do miss the thrill of torque and speed. I have ordered a 2008 Turbo and in the process of selling a lovely car I have owned for only 5 months. At 145, the fastes I ever got the C4, it was like a rock. on country roads, it hugged the ground. It feels great at any speed.

I know very little about aerodymamics. I just know what feels "good" when you drive. Most of us who are just drivers like and seek out that feeling

this is a great forum and an interesting discussion

mike

eclou

The video is impressive. He is doing a rolling start from 15 mph or so but that might be an extra second at best. From 150mph (33 sec mark) it takes almost 30 seconds for the Z06 to hit 190 indicated (1:00 mark) which may be off depending on speedo error. The first 120 mph is a blitzkrieg. Honestly, I have even seen 50+ seconds listed as a 0-300 for the Z06 which I cannot believe at all. If Chevy stuffed the LS7 into the regular Vette body (Cd .28!!) the car would require 60+ less hp to work against the drag at 193mph (331 vs 396 hp), and be very likely in the exotic realm of 722's and 599's for $60k.

wanna911

I agree, the speedo could be off and it may have been from 10mph roll which would put the time spot on with the mag test with a poor launch from a standing start. But as with any test ~1.8 seconds difference can change from one day to another depending on car strength, air/surface conditions etc. Just like the lap times when they track the cars doesnt mean that one car is faster because the test conceded .5 or 1 second on a lap, could be driver error, confortability in rwd vs awd, fron vs rear engine. So IMO magazine tests that are this close are negligable, ALL OF THEM. Including ring times with different pro drivers on different days on who knows what tires (shaved, etc.) and tune.

Very well, I think that Chevy have made the Z06. They made a great track car that cant stay together on the track (rear ends, roofs, brakes, motor seizing). they gave this track car a 100k warranty and void the whole warranty if you take it to the track and they find out (though they advertised it as a track car). They made it pull strong but gave it weak gearing (same as the C5 coupe, non Z06) which is the main reason it struggles up top other than the aero. This is why I dont like the car, but I know it's fast.

I, for one, was expecting the turbo to come here and trounce the Z06 based on the early magazine tests and Porsche advertisements, but the car has proven not to ruffle any feathers thus far. Though I know it's been out less time and costs almost twice as much, so less people will track it, still the fastest I have seen is 11.8 at 118 from anywhere other than the 11.2 @ 121 from motortrend prerelease, which I think is garbage.

I have a corvette and a turbo (c5, 996) so my opinions are not biased and I think the 996 turbo at least is underrated as a track car, because mine is a beast. And though my C5 (427 Twin turbo) is faster in a straight line, it could never amount to what the Porsche is and I LOVE smashing Z06's at the track with k24/tune/exhaust/coilover and have beaten head/cam/coilover/hoosier Z06's. But for a stock car, the Z06 is the best out there sub 200k in just about every area, except 160-186 mph i guess .

eclou

The MT test at 11.2 was at nearly 0 deg ambient. The FI cars LOVE cold air. It would be the same as fogging it with methanol, and getting a square sine-wave type boost curve (btw the 997TT has no wastegate - boost is bled from the VTG vane orientation). That's why they got the 3.2 0-60 time as well. Remember when the stock Chevy Syclone hit a low 13 sec 1/4 in the early 90's? That was a test done in Detroit at -10 deg or something crazy.

pole position

LOL, you guys are still arguing with this DOB in the 90's dude who is a professional internet debater and expert bench racer with no actual experience.

Whoopsy

Actually this wanna dude has become much more reasonable and less combative in the past few posts and with more contents and less bandwidth wasted junk.

Corvette has always been the value leader for performance, I had one before, a C5 launch car, it was one of my all time favorites. When I trade that in for a 02 C4S, I was totally unimpress by the power or lack of from the Porsche, there was no punch whatsoever from the gas paddle. It's not until I got the 997 TT that I am finally satsfied wit the 'punch'. The vette was also darty at speed, not super fast but just highway speed, the Porsche was much more planted and surefooted.

For all intents and purposes the Z06 and the TT is equal in performances, one is like the Safeway brand of windows cleaner and the other the original Windex. Both will do the job just fine but one is a bargain, and you paid for the brand name in the other.

The Z06 definitely is one up on the TT in my books in one area. Trunk. I have yet to find another fast car with a bigger trunk. 2 full size golf bags in the trunk, something I cannot do in the TT.

Whoopsy

O, in the run you posted I think the car hit 186mph at the 58 sec mark, the runs starts at 13 sec from stop. (I found that out when I do freeze frame)

So the car runs 0-300km/h in 45 sec. A posted 0-300km/h run for a TT is 33.6, it's a modded one so lets add 5 sec to that time to account for the added HP, that puts it in 38.6, you take 5 secs off the Z06 time for 'botched shifts' and that puts the Z06 at 40sec. As you have said 1.something secs are basically even for races like these so that puts the 2 car even again, Z06 did not come out a winner.

One more question, in the video 3rd gear runs from 5k rpm to 7k, I do not see anything wrong with it.

wanna911

Then how did they hook up at that temp? You have to admit 121 mph is pretty slow trap for a 11.2 car. Generally it takes slicks to get there with most cars at that trap speed, certainly not one with street tires on cold pavement. I still call b.s. on that time. It's like the 12.2 shelby time that is off base.

wanna911

LOL, I have a truck and trailer, I like to do my bench racing in person. Anytime your ready.


I tell you what though, a lot of guys on these Porsche forums are quick to assume they are talking to some kind of young punk when they dont agree with someone. And most of the ones whining are the people who run their mouths more than anything else. You'll find me at the track several times a year, so when you're done trying to dismiss my findings, why dont you come out and play? And you dont seem to bright either, 79 vs 90's, and if you care to notice, I'm and actual member, not just a POS(T)ER.