ignacio

i am happy you are pleased with your car. i never said the 997tt was "wildly unstable" simply not as stable as the 996tt. i never expected this from porsche which has been trying to cure lift throttle oversteer for 30+ years. i expected to see further improvement with the 997tt. instead, porsche has taken a half step backwards. my "motive" is simply to discuss this characteristic of the 997tt that i find disappointing as a long term porsche enthusiast. hopefully the 998tt will be better. i like new cars!

texas911

Maybe because the 997TT is going so much faster than the 996TT that it doesn't experience it because of the lower limits.

cannga

>>>simply not as stable as the 996tt

Based on which review though?

I am not sure you could draw this conclusion from the Car & Driver review. Or any other "official" reviews for that matter, where a 996tt is compared head to head with the 997tt. It *might* be true, but the comparison hasn't been done.

The 997tt in this article is compared with other current sports cars, not the 996. As I have mentioned, the majority of "dual" owners have explicitly stated the 997 is the "better" car.

Wasn't one of the criticisms of the 996 that the dialing out of oversteer was overdone and made it a boring car? I am not necessarily agreeing with that, just pointing out that you can't please all the people all the time.

x-50speeder

Can anyone comment on the fact that the journalists pressured the tires to the “manufacturer's suggested pressures?”
Do you guys find that the manufacturer's recommended pressures are way too high? Especially for some of you who run Texas World Speedway (serious temps in the summer!)? I find 44psi way high, and the grip is lost when the tires come up to temp. This has always baffled me about Porsches recommended pressures and I would love to hear your input.
Also, for the record, I drive the heck out of my 996 TT and am looking to the "without question" better all around 997TT that will arrive for me in three weeks ( I mean, when has Porsche produced a car that was not better than its predecessor?)
I too laughed about the lift over-steer issues in the magazines! Not a good move in a “throttle on” turn, and quite useful for say the carousel at TWS. Even in my 996TT I often lift abruptly to get the car’s front end to close in tighter in a carousel type turn such as turn 10 at Texas World Speedway.
Let me know what you think about these journalists going out with 44 psi (possibly heating up to 54 psi)!

Cheers,
Steve

eclou

Steve,

don't worry about the magazine BS and frightened critics who have never lapped the car. The TT is insane at TWS. Just ask Viking Sjovall. Just call Bobby Archer to reserve some R6's for the car - run 235/295 if you want to run the 19's or 245/315 if you run the 18's. Lifting in turn 10 helps trim you into the apex very well. The only cars that outrun the TT there are the Panoz ALMS racer from Driver's Source and the few Cup cars that show up every now and again.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...753&pr=goog-sl

Rennphile

This is a fairly bold statement. Would you care to elaborate?

x-50speeder

eclou,

Thanks for the reply. I look forward to the Sept 15th DE. I should have my 997 TT by then.
Tell me a little about the R6's you suggest? Not familiar, but a Google search brought up some wheels by Moda? Also, what tires do you suggest for the 245/325 & 235/295 setup? I usually just run my street tires so I don’t have to fool with carrying and swapping.
Also, thanks for the video! Looks like you were cooking down the straight at TWS. That is where the crazy TT acceleration gives me a big smile! Not to mention, I get to “make up” for some of the time I might have lost in some of the corners!
Thanks,
Steve

x-50speeder

Oh, BTW, you are right, sometimes a little lift in a certain type of turn in a car that produces some over-steer is very desirable in helping place the nose of the car where you want it to go.

Of course the opposite might be true in a high speed turn where one begins to feel that they are slipping and running wide and thus has the urge to get off the gas (i.e. lift) which immediately transfers weight to the front of the car and relinquishes weight and traction from the back of the car due to the weight transfer. Depending on speed, this will cause the rear end to begin to slip outward. Depending on the speed, the severity of the lift, the track, and I’m sure a host of other things, you could go into an immediate spin or you could experience some slipping of the rear or even all four tires, or you could simply slow down and nothing perceptible happen. But, due to the rear weight bias and increased polar moment of the 911, a quick lift in a 911 usually induces a quick spin! It is something that Porsche’s are famous (or infamous!) for and I think that’s what lends to AAH986’s comment about people not having a clue! Which they will have a clue as soon as they try correcting their mistake or giving into their fear by lifting mid turn in a fast 911!
S.

eclou

R6's are Hoosiers. A car with as much weight as the TT will wear stock tires out quickly - especially feathering on the outer blocks of the tread. The TT is going to feel much more rewarding on the track using the Hoosiers - it will have quite a bit more adhesion and in my opinion safer. I don't expect to hike well in dress shoes, and I don't expect my TT to track well on street tires.

AAHTT

hmm, maybe it was a little too bold but no problem, lifting in a turn when you are driving at the limits is not for the inexperienced. As eugene mentioned, trail braking can be useful when starting a turn and will help correct the line, but when a journalist complains that the car oversteers when he lifts while turning, that tells me he was not expecting it and did not do it on purpose. In this case, this particular driver should be instructed to take it easy so he doesn't have to lift while turning, until he gets more familiar with the car.
At least this is what I was taught to do in the beginning. there is nothing more annoying to a driving instructor than a student who keeps lifting at the wrong moment.
In any case, all this stuff will never happen on the street.

cannga

It gets "better." From the same article, about the Porsche GT3:

"..but it tended to suffer from severe lift-throttle oversteer in the middle of turns..."

and about the Lotus Exige S:

"There is some tail-happiness that hampers the car in places like the uphill esses of Sector Two. In the middle of that sequence, the Lotus tended to get loose, necessitating a lift of the throttle." (??? )

I am beginning to suspect that eclou is right, that this driver is more a writer and doesn't know what he's doing on the track. If the 997tt has the same "problem" as these 2 track-disguising-as-street cars, particularly the case of that Lotus, then I'd say it's in good company indeed!

Perhaps the driver enters the corners way faster than his driving skills allow, panics mid turn and lifts off throttle, then subsequently writes the cars are tail happy?

Whoopsy

Wow, that aricle smells like something from Comsumer Reports, maybe they got sports cars review and lawn mowers review mixed up? I mean, only CR can have drivers with that low a skill on the payroll, the other American mags' drivers are not first class by any means but at least they are half decent.

richk

Eclou has made alot of very good points throughout this thread, IMHO the 977tt is the best car in the world bar none. I like Eclou have a 997tt and I also bought and sold a 997GT3. Yesterday, I spent the day driving with my next door neighbor who just got his F430 coupe.....hmmm maybe????

wanna911

Hey, I just skimmed over this thread but I have been going back and forth on the subject on MANY forums. All you have to do to know that something is wrong is look at the fact that the 997 Turbo ran the same time as a GT500, a solid rear axle, 3900 lbs, 9inch rear wheel GT500. That confrims to me at least that the drivers were inept at driving the turbo, there is something behinds the scenes they dont mention or there was something wrong with the car. They called the car clumsy which any stock car is going to be somewhat clumsy compared to a well set up track car, but for a stock car, Porsches in general dont fit in this category and surely not one of the flagship models.

This magazine article is to be taken with a grain of salt because neither is it accurate or does it represent the Gt3 or Turbo in their true potential and that's just talking comparatively with all the other cars. It's no wonder they chose a the VIR grand course because no one drives it to be able to call them or their drivers b.s. I hae been able to track down spec miatas at 3:10 and spec RX-7's at 3:04, I'll let you draw whatever conclusion come to mind. On the video it implies that the drivers are editors for the magazine. Someone else has named the drivers as one guy who raced indy car about 40 years ago, a young kid that races spec miata and just another guy who is older. For from what we like to think of as current "PRO" drivers.

eclou

look back at Jeremy Clarkson's comments about the 997TT in regards to handling - "defies physics..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ASwvR01YE

Also these comments on Fifth Gear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Pq_mm9BHI