RSA333

Folks-

Yes, I am still debating. I like Stephen at IA, he is a real contributor to these lists, and has always been very honest and open. He and Evolution and others are going with Fabspeed. AWE is impressive because they have built an impressive history, although their installation process is more involved (it appears).

After visting the Porsche folks in Germany they seem to believe that the TechArt or systems will be better than than previously mentioned offerings. It is because they have worked more directly with them to refine diameters, headers, etc. But they are expensive.

I want to go the header and exhaust route first, so as not to void the warranty out of the box. I talked with the COO of PCNA, and he has assured me that replacement headers won't void the warranty - but do not take my word on this - Porsche is very adversarial.

So, where do I stand. Don't have a car yet, so this is all jumpimg the gun. The ECU flash would be great, but Porsche can detect that these days. I don't know the factory weight of the exhaust, so an aftermarket person saying that they have reduced weight by 20% is not meaningful to me. Yes, there is demonstrable proof that just changing the exhuast gives you some modest power increases (5-25 bhp), but I would predict a header swap-out would be even better.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advanve - Gerry

FSU-997TT

It would seem to me that aftermarket headers are much more of an added benefit for non-turbo charged cars....and that aftermarket exhausts that substantially reduce back-pressure downstream of the turbo would almost alone be the most bang for your buck. I'm guessing that a header swap would not be that much more noticeable than exhaust swap alone. My $0.02 FWIW, and I'm sure the experts will chime and set me straight if I'm wrong.

AAHTT

I agree, the headers will not contribute much to performance (only a few hp), the exhaust will contribute more. I have not heard the techart exhaust but I can tell you that if you want to go real loud and without resonnance, get the cargraphic loud version. The other brands all seem to be more quiet than the loud CG.
The CG will also save you 12kg/26 pounds.

Tioga120

I went with AWE and have no regrets.

TT Gasman

To be perfectly honest, I'm gonna wait and see how bad , if at all, the stock exhaust sounds. Then maybe I will consider something like the Fabspeed. The stock headers look fine to me, I would be very surprised if there are any gains to be had. As to the ECU, 480 is enough power for me.
I'm probably 90/10 leavng the turbo 100% bone stock.
Now I do plan on a set of track tires...

tstafford

My two cents:
- I think the Cats provide the biggest single performance benefit
- The stock exhaust is very tame, although a little better than a 997S
- I had AWE on my 997S and loved it. Great sound. I did the exhaust and cats because this was the best bang for the buck according to the AWE's dyno numbers
- I am having Fabspeed exhaust and cats installed on my TT next week and will post comments
- Stephen was great to work with in getting the Fabspeed parts

For me, the sound of the car is very important to the overall experience. There are many things I don't miss about my 355, but the sound is one I do. The AWE system on my 997S was something I appreciated every time I drove the car.

Todd/A.W.E.

Gerry,

For the record, the install on our system is no harder than any other system on the market. It can be done with the rear bumper on with no problems.

Any questions about installation, performance, or manufacturing methods of our system, please let me know. I have a very explanatory picture I can post pointing out some key design features that I feel gives our system the edge.

We are 100% committed to quality and spent many hundreds of hours refining the tone, fitment, and performance of this muffler, using only the very highest of quality materials and components.

eclou

Very happy with my AWE. I have not heard the others in person but I am sure that they sound good too. For me the fit and finish of the AWE is great - I know very well since I installed it myself that nothing was out of alignment or needed any abuse to fit correctly. After seeing some other pics, I think that they all can be installed without pulling the bumper. The key is to disconnect the O2 sensors from within the engine bay thru the trunk. That was the only thing that caused trouble- I couldn't remove them from below

RSA333

Todd/AWE-

Please provide further information if you can. I have a dealer for AWE in my area (Curry's Automotive in VA) that can probably perform the conversion, and my dealer offered to do it as well, but i do not think they are trustworthy.

My only concern is that I work with this company that provides personal safety devices (CPR, defibrillators) to the Porsche factories, and those (probably biased) folks tend to recommend the more expensive German systems like TechArt, cargraphic and Ruf. They say that since these companies are working more directly with the factory, they provide optimal diameter, other information and options to these companies in terms of exhaust systems, etc.

Also, having read at least one person who had a problem with the Fabspeed exhaust falling off or something to that effect on one of these lists, gives me pause to worry. I have thought well of Joe (FabSpeed) and his products in the past.

Finally - What do you guys do with the original exhuast fitted to the car? My garage is filling up with such things, I hate ebay, but may use my new site www.rennparts.com to sell some of this off (if there is a market).

Thanks in advance - Gerry

Cannes Palais des Arts and Monaco Grand Prix in May!!!

TT Surgeon

Whatever you decide, keep your old stock parts, one day you may want to re-install them/sell car/etc. They cost a fortune new, are worthless on the used market, plus used aftermarket stuff is a lot easier to unload.
Personally, I'll probably go with the fabs after I break it in, I know stock ain't gonna be loud enough for me.

Todd/A.W.E.

Curry's is a large volume dealer for us and they are quite used to working on high end cars. You would be in good hands with them.


Ok, here goes. I'll try to be as politically correct as possible when comparing/contrasting the qualities of our system vs the competition. I always get a little nervous showing how our designs are better than competing designs, as we try to take a positive approach to selling (selling on why our products are good and not selling on why our competitors are bad). However, in order to compare/contrast as clearly as possible, I need to compare/contrast against something.

Anyway, look at this picture:



It illustrates some qualities of our system that are unique.

First, we have been building and designing complete turbo systems and turbo exhaust systems for many years, and our power data acquisition work has taught us that the larger pressure differential you can produce across the turbine, the easier you are making it for the turbo to come up to speed. This is also solid turbo theory that has been borne out by other turbo kit manufacturers. The large diameter tubing between the turbo outlet flange and the catalytic converter serves as an expansion chamber for the exhaust gasses, creating that pressure drop mentioned above. The results of this pressure drop can be seen in the faster spool up times on our dyno sheets:

AWE Tuning 997TT Dyno Sheets

This feature is something I have not seen on *any* other 997TT exhaust systems, *except for the factory design*! Yes, if you look at the factory muffler, they too have embraced this concept of maximized pressure drop after the turbine. The difference is that the balance of the factory system is quite a bit more restrictive than ours due to sound and emissions mandates, but without this pressure expansion volume, lag would be even worse on the factory exhaust.

Another feature unique to our system is the use of factory mounting straps. We include genuine Porsche straps to ensure that the muffler cans sit square and secure to the mounting bracket. Why reinvent the wheel here? The straps do cost us quite a bit more than aftermarket versions (large hose clamps), but the precise fitment they provide is worth it. On a side note, that is why our cans are somewhat angular in shape: they are shaped to fit the factory clamp profile.

We also incorporated a balance pipe between the muffler cans, which is used on very few of the aftermarket options out there. We have learned over the years from direct A/B power and road testing what a balance pipe can do for performance and sound tone, and the 997TT was no exception. We gained 3-4 hp alone from testing various diameter balance pipes, and the effect on smoothing out the sound tone was quite dramatic. It is a more difficult manufacturing process to incorporate this design feature, but it is a key ingredient to maximizing peak power gains while providing a sophisticated sound tone.

Another benefit that we provide on all our Porsche systems is an additional oxygen sensor bung before the catalytic converter. This is a handy attachment point for an external air/fuel monitor and gets used a lot by guys tweaking their car on dynos.

We also use genuine Emitec core catalytic conveters that are canned by HJS Motorsport in Germany. Emitec is the OEM supplier to Porsche. We are the *only* US based Porsche exhaust manufacturer to do this, while it is indeed the standard on the European made systems. We have found through extensive testing that these are the only cats that will serve to keep the check engine light off on your dash on these cars, as they are coming with an 800 cell cat from the factory.


I would have to challenge the statement that those companies are getting some sort of "inside information" that would ultimately make their products superior to those who may not be getting this info. All the evidence and data is in plain view for a properly equipped R&D facility with the right personnel. It is all about taking the time to document it and use it in your designs. An in house dynamometer as well as high resolution scan tools and data acquisition instruments makes the process transparent. However, most aftermarket exhaust brands are not only *not* manufactured in house (and simply rebranded), but they are hardly ever dyno developed. They may be dyno documented after the fact, but that is quite different from being dyno developed where the design process is affected by the data acquired. And without an in house manufacturing facility, it makes manufacturing flexibility quite difficult. We are in a very unique position of being a full in house tuner *and* manufacturer with their own R&D/dyno facility. By far, most aftermarket exhaust manufacturers do not fit this description. Surprising, but true.

Another point of interest is the fact that you are indeed paying an importation duty/transportation fee built into the European made systems. A US made system eliminates that artificial price bump.



We have a time limit system with client installs. They either take the OEM system with them when they leave, or they have 7 days to come back to get it, or they tell us to dispose of it. We had to institute this system as we began to warehouse literally dozens of OEM exhausts which was hampering needed storage space. We always suggest to customers to keep their OEM parts, however, as you never know if you may end up selling the car.

I hope I have served to enlighten you further on aftermarket exhausts for the 997TT. You are driving one of the highest forms of automotive engineering, and you deserve an aftermarket exhaust that meets those standards.

PorschePhD

Thanks! I appreciate the kind comments.

TechArts exhaust are actually built by Supersprint. They are a fine exhaust, but not everything is as it seems.

This is simple. Just purhase another ECU and have it programmed. We can do this and only a few others. You have to have a TT and a PIWIS in order to pull this off. I have done 5 thus far for concerned owners.

allegretto

Yup, new DME, Stephan can "clone" yours and when it is time to switch back no one will know.

I do believe in AWE however. They are the only manufacturer I've seen so far that has literally put their money where their mouth is.

John@Fabspeed

Fabspeed Motorsport Product Information: 997 TT

• Fabspeed Motorsport has been shipping 997TT MAXFLO performance exhaust systems since the beginning of September.
• The Fabspeed Maxflo 997TT performance exhaust system is $3,695 for the complete system featuring GERMAN imported sports racing super high flow 200 cell catalytic converters along with our Maxflo mufflers. The 200 cell Catalytic converters are tri metal metallic.
• Fabspeed 996TT and 997TT exhaust systems are modular and adjustable in sound and power levels via F1/Aerospace quality V band clamps. These MIL spec clamps also make installation of our systems the easiest in the world. You can change the sound and power level of a Fabspeed 997TT exhaust system in less than 20 minutes. In terms of our Maxflo mufflers alone, we offer two slightly different systems creating moderate to more aggressive sound. From these two starting points you can add more increased sound levels through the quick installation of our sport race cats or louder cat-bypass pipes. All of these pieces within our system are modular and interchangeable through the use of our military spec v-band clamps.
• Our system is 100% T304 Stainless Steel that is C.N.C computer numerical controlled mandrel bent for maximum exhaust flow and lowest possible back pressure. Fabspeed utilizes the largest diameter tubing in the industry.
• All Fabspeed muffler cases and muffler end caps are stamped and formed on precision tooling equipment developed exclusively by Fabspeed Motorsport. Our muffler cases are never made up on a simple sheet metal brake or press brake like HVAC ductwork. There are no sharp edges on any Fabspeed mufflers and all end caps and surfaces are professionally radiused.
• Factory OEM tier 1 manufacturers use the same manufacturing procedures as Fabspeed manufacturing exhaust systems. ISO 9000 procedures.
• Custom tooling and manufacturing dies make our MAXFLO exhaust systems the strongest available with an unparalleled fit & finish.
• EXPERIENCE: Fabspeed 996 Twin Turbo exhaust systems have been INDEPENDENTLY dyno tested and proven to make the most emissions legal horsepower and torque than any other systems available worldwide. Fabspeed applied past experience to IMPROVE the design and function for the 997 Twin Turbo. Fabspeed 996TT exhaust systems have won each and every Las Vegas tuner shoot-out and dyno shoot-out!
• Additionally our 997TT headers ($1,595) and muffler bypass pipes ($550) are also C.N.C computer numerical controlled mandrel bent for aggressive sports car sound and power. All Fabspeed Motorsport headers feature Formula 1, NASCAR, Grand AM style high velocity merge collectors for additional horsepower increase and better/faster transition to boost.
• We also offer 200 cell sport race cats with muffler bypass pipes ($1,995) which save 50 LBS over the stock 997TT exhaust system and give off an aggressive and exotic sound. Video's and dyno graph on Website.
• The DYNO which was conducted by Imagine Auto, was verified by numerous other dyno shops. It definitively shows the Fabspeed 997TT MAXFLO system creating a +21HP increase over the stock exhaust with an additional +17 TQ as measured at the rear wheels. This results in a 25.2 HP and 20.4 TQ increase at the crankshaft.

• Fabspeed also offer gorgeous T304SS mirror polished Quad Tips ($850) which are of an easy bolt-on design allowing them to be used on 997TT factory mufflers and/or any other aftermarket 997TT exhaust system. Our quad tips are 3.5” in diameter and have a double beveled outlet that is angle cut and mirror show polished stainless steel. You can optionally get these tips powder coated in black or other colors. Fabspeed Motorsports was the 1st company to perfect “true quad separate” tips for the 997Twin Turbos.
]

golfguy

Todd

thanks for the explanation. technically, awe sounds like a better product. similarly, i like the use of oem components. however i wanted you to be aware of why i choose fs.

because of your canadian partner's business practises, there's a 40-50% price difference between awe and fs based on local selling prices (as much as $2000 cdn delta). btw, i do expect to pay a (reasonable) premium for local availability but $5700 cdn is *silly* given a currency exchange rate of 1.18.

i'm sure that awe values the exclusive distributor relationship but it's probably costing you some business due to the exclusive markups.