FlatSix911

Take a look at the Technical Information Bulletin - Engine Oils approved by Porsche

http://members.rennlist.com/jandreas...-List-2006.pdf

Ray S

Uh-oh....the heavy oil guys get angry when you bring up this list.

turbojohn

I can't find 5w-50 or 5w-40 for that matter, anywhere

ebaker

Castrol 5w50 Syntec can be found at many auto parts stores. I've seen Mobil 1 5w40 Turbodiesel at O'Reilley's and Rotella 5w40 at Walmart.

turbojohn

I guess I had tunnel vision...was looking for Mobil 1. Will check at O'reilley's, however. In the south would like 5w-40 over 0w40 unless what the fellow earlier (from up above) said that in fact the lower cold weight oil 0w-40 is there for functions not necessarily deliverable with heavier cold 5w-40 wts. Would think the heavier 5w-40 cold would linger on the bearing surfaces, etc, over the thinner cold 0w-40.

ebaker

Be aware that Castrol 5w50 is not on Porsche's approved list. The newer versions of Mobil 1 0w40 are made to meet the new SM specifications, which limits the Zinc antiwear additive. 5w40 has more Zinc. The 5w40 TurboDiesel is identical to Delvac 1, whiich is thought by many to be one of the best diesel oils in the world. It is significantly thicker than 0w40 at 100°F, 102 vs. 80 cSt., which is a disadvantage. IMO the 5w40 is better if your car is modified or you track it, 0w40 is better in cool climates and for a car you don't track. In reality I don't think these cars are very hard on oil and any synthetic would work fine. The only oil related problem I've heard of is coking of the turbos.

turbojohn

Looks like it is best, looking over all the comments, to stay with 0w-40 at the Porsche dealers for $7.95/qt. Not worth the suspected hassle to go with anything else........... For me, glad the decision making is over.
Incidentally, will be changing the oil myself, and noticed needed a special wrench for the oil filter from Performance products for Porsche for $44.n Even with this expense, still a big cost savings from the dealer for just an oil change. This is not the required one at 20K miles for $350 which I think is worth the price with other filters involved along with the oil change.

allegretto

Wal-Mart here in Chicagoland (yeah, that wal-mart) actually has it at about $5/qt last I checked.

None of the other stores have it.

Go figure...

Doug Hillary

Hi,
following from "ebaker's" post this may be of some interest, it's from a post in the 911 Forum on Oil Temperature;
"As many Porsche engines normally operate with an oil temperature around 95C the following are some other examples of viscosity at that temperature;

1 - Mobil 1 0w-40 (Porsche Approved) has a 15.9cSt viscosity nearing that of an SAE50 lubricant at 100C (a range 16.3cSt - 21.9cSt)
2 - Mobil 1 5w-50 (Porsche Approved) has a viscosity of 19.6cSt

Other lubricants - but not the subject of the title of this Thread follow;
3 - Mobil 1 5w-40 "Turbo" Diesel has the viscosity (16.6cSt) of an SAE50 oil at 100C (16.3cST)
4 - Mobil 1 15w-50 EP has a viscosity of 20.3cSt
5 - A typical 20w-50 mineral oil will have a viscosity of around 22cSt which is the same as a SAE60 oil at 100C"

Regards

ebaker

I got an oil filter wrench/socket from the local auto parts store for about $7. It's steel and works fine. Look for one listed to fit a Jetta diesel, It's the same size.

500

I've got to believe that one of the main reasons most automobile manufactures are using lighter weight oils is for better fuel efficiency.

Doug Hillary

Hi,
500 - as you would be aware, there are many myths centred around engine lubricants and as a response to a couple of Private Messages I thought that this may be of some interest

Viscosity:
A 0w-40 lubricant is actually at the higher end of the "commonly OEM specified" range of engine oils and has been for at least the last 60 years or so!
such as;
SAE10w-10
SAE20w-20
SAE30
SAE40 (0w-40)
SAE50

An SAE40 viscosity engine lubricant can be described as a 0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40, 15w-40 20w-40, 25w-40 or a "monograde" SAE40.
These oils must all have a viscosity within the range between 12.5cSt and 16.3cSt at 100C.
Oils with a viscosity spread of 0w-40, 5w-40 and 10w-40 must have a MINIMUM High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) viscosity (measured @ 150C) of 2.9cSt.
Oils with a viscosity spread of 15w-40, 20w-40, 25w-40 and monograde SAE40 must have a minimum HTHS vis. of 3.7cSt

Porsche's prescribed minimum HTHS vis. is 3.6cSt (except perhaps the V6 Cayenne engine)

In 1941 this was the range of engine oils specified for use in American cars:
Over 90F (only some engines) = SAE30 or 40, the highest was SAE50 in one engine
Over 32F = SAE20 or 20W, the highest was SAE30 in one engine
Over 10F = SAE20W (lowest 10W)
Over -10F = SAE10W
Below -10F = SAE10W (plus 10% Kerosine - for all vehicles except Crosley)

So low viscosity oils are really not a new thing - they were a factory fill in 1941!!

After 1945 some duo/multi grade 10w-30, 20w-30 and 30-40 lubricants were available

The "thicker" wider range multigrade oils started in 1958/9 with the introduction of the Austin-Morris BMC Mini 850. This vehicle needed a 20w-50 oil for it's integral engine/gearbox package. That oil was initially developed by Duckhams - it never stopped the Mini's leaks though!!.

IIRC the first 911 engines were Factory filled with Shell's Rimula, a diesel rated oil (to combat varnish/sludge tec), and specified in the following viscosities;
-30C to 0C = SAE10W
-10C to +10C = SAE20w-20
0C to 30C = SAE30 (Factory fill)
15C to >40C = SAE40

So we are still in the same realm in real terms all these years later - it's now called 0w-40 or 5w-40!! These are still SAE40 oils!

Fuel efficiency
In a "corporate" (CAFÉ) sense, lower viscosity engine lubricants (0w-20, 5w-20) do factor heavily in the overall fuel economy equation especially in stop-go commuter style driving
It is in the period from cold start to reaching the engine's "core" operating temperature and idling when lower viscosity engine lubricants prevail in a fuel efficiency sense
However, when used in engines NOT designed for them it is most likely excessive wear and other operating "issues" will come to the fore

A highly viscous lubricant (a 20w-50 mineral oil as an example) is not only hard to pump when cold it is usually lacking in film strength (HTHS vis.) at the mid range of engine oil operating temperatures. Such oils must have a minimum HTHS vis. of 3.7cSt which is also the same for SAE60 vis. oils but they also tend to oxidise and thicken, quickly moving out of their viscosity "window" and further destroying fuel efficiency

The Euro compromise (and the past Euro position) has been to use 0w30, 5w-30, 0w-40 and 5w-40 in a wide selection of engine "families". These Euro specification lubricants (ACEA) will have a HTHS vis. up to 3.5cSt (ACEA A1/B1-04) or a minimum HTHS vis. above 3.5cSt (ACEA A3/B4-04). These are the popular ones - there are more specifications of course and there is a move towards lower viscosity lubricants within ACEA Member Companies

Remember (see above) the Porsche position on HTHS viscosity;
"Porsche's prescribed minimum HTHS vis. is 3.6cSt" so an ACEA A3/B4-04 lubricant is the one most likely to be tested for Approval by Porsche. Hence the 0w-40, 5w-40 Approved vis. "mix" of Brands

Lower viscosity synthetic gear train lubricants are at least the match of lighter viscosity engine lubricants in the fuel efficiency equation. Many gearboxes now use a synthetic ATF (around SAE20 vis.) or a synthetic 75w-80/90 (GL4-5) lubricant - and the same viscosity (75w-80/90) is commonly used in the differential as a GL5
In 1941 the most popular gearbox oil was SAE40 and one even used a SAE140EP oil
The most popular differential oil then was SAE80EP with some specified to use SAE140EP

Individually, greater fuel efficiency is mostly a factor of driver skill, awareness and attitude etc. - and running with correct tyre pressures - at least!

As engine designs have become more complex in the quest for low emissions, the engine's lubricant has played a wider role acting as an hydraulic actuator and etc. And with turbo-chargers, highly viscous lubricants tend to slow the turbo's "response" to the engine's needs and do not add anything to cooling the components!

In the future we will see "filled for life" lubricants with very advanced formulations and oil/filtration disposable "packages". Mobil is already believed to be offering a 0w-50 version of M1 that has very little change in "true" viscosity between very cold (-50C) and hot (100C) due to its unique chemical structure!
On board oil condition monitoring is already used very succesfully

It is always worth remembering that despite all the advertising, one Oil Company's oil has never been shown to produce a significant increase in engine life against another Oil Company's product that meets the same specifications and when used in the same-similar engine/environment/conditions!

Regards

mastiffdog

Doug thanks for taking the time to share. That is a great write up!

500

Fuel efficiency
In a "corporate" (CAFÉ) sense, lower viscosity engine lubricants (0w-20, 5w-20) do factor heavily in the overall fuel economy equation especially in stop-go commuter style driving
It is in the period from cold start to reaching the engine's "core" operating temperature and idling when lower viscosity engine lubricants prevail in a fuel efficiency sense

Bingo, thanks.


In the future we will see "filled for life" lubricants with very advanced formulations and oil/filtration disposable "packages". Mobil is already believed to be offering a 0w-50 version of M1 that has very little change in "true" viscosity between very cold (-50C) and hot (100C) due to its unique chemical structure!

I'd like to see this sooner than later.

Edgy01

What I have found over the past year or so is that 1999Porsche911 has a tendency to make bold statements about oil on several different Rennlist forums and when finally confronted by those I consider knowledgeable (thanks, Doug, in Australia) he suddenly disapears from that thread, only to pop up again a month later somewhere else. 1999Porsche911 likes to toss grenades into oil discussions and when directly questioned on his experience and or education background he goes silent.