Better oil for 997.2s - Driven DI40 / Ceratec - etc
 

I spend a lot of time in the 997 forum and am just learning there's a better oil choice for DFI engines - that being Driven DI40. Additionally, there are additives that many seem to swear by - one being Cera Tec.

Any 997/2 Turbo or TTS owners using these products and care to vouch for them ? Is the additive not needed if you're using DI40 ? Overkill ?

Thanks in advance

I use Porsche-approved Liqui Moly 05-40W oil with their lubricating additives that makes my CTT and TTS run smoother and quieter when compared to Mobil 1 and Motul that I used in the past. Porsche does not recommend adding additional additives.

+1 for Liqui Moly; I use it in all my cars. Good German oil. I dont feel the need to experiment.

I've also used LM MOS2 in all cars, havent tried Ceratec, but heard it was good. As previously mentioned, additives are not usually recommended by manufacturers.

I also asked this question in a 997 thread and Charles Navarro of LN responded -

"Driven oils already have MoDTC (moly), so no need for Ceratec. DI40 already has 300ppm which is what the recommended blend rate nets you using Ceratec with a common A40 oil."

Bottom line not needed.
"

Redline has oil for DFI, it has excellent resistance to sheering forces. It is a short drain interval oil, it works great and I have had no issues.

Amazon link to the LM? A friend had mentioned swapping from my current Motul to that.

And if you want to link me to the washers needed for the 2 plugs I wouldn't be mad about that either :)

The Driven oils do not have ANY published specs.. They want you to trust there product with no engineering data a or certs for the public.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...IVEN_DT40_5W40

The holy grail or perfect oil reduces metal wear between oil changes.

The Direct Injected oils aren't magic. They just have reduced Noack>>LOW Noack values reduces oil/soot buildup on valve train and intake ports.. Redline has some of the very best numbers for many years..

I run blended Redline in one of my 996TT, 997TT and 991TTS. 0W40/5W50 will get you reduced engine wear!

SPEEDiagnostix has published multiple VOAs for different. I'd check that website out for the most current numbers for many popular products, including Driven:

https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis-results

As far that Bob is the oil guy thread, the VOA for DT40 is wrong. The oil has gone through several revisions as we test new versions in our own fleet, which included a change to Afton for the additive pack and the inclusion of MoDTC (moly) in the most current version. I've posted the moly levels on the 997 forums which put the levels at what mixing Ceratec with an A40 oil yields.

DI40 is not just an oil with lower noack volatility. It also requires lower Ca detergents, among other formulation changes to prevent LSPI. For those who care, here is an article published in Engine Profession from the American Engine Builders Association:

http://www.engineprofessional.com/ar...Q218_42-46.pdf

The website that you posted isn't posting ALL the complete data points. VI numbers for ALL the oils tested and HTHS numbers for the oils tested. Noack and ash should be provided>>calcium has been included.

Like I said and have always written, it is the trend line from UOA over time (minimum of 2 oil change samples) If the wear number decline vs mileage >>you have found a Great oil.. If the metal flatlines or goes up>>you should change oils.

Here are the printed specs for Redline 0W40 I'll fid the VOA and post it>> Very good VI
ACEA Service ClassA3 B3/B4
API Service ClassSN/SM/SL/CF
SAE Viscosity Grade (Motor Oil)0W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt15.4
Vis @ 40°C, cSt86
Viscosity Index190
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C57@-35
Pour Point, °C-60
Pour Point, °F-76
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), %9
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741 4.0

Mobil 1 0W40
Meet nearly all manufacturing specs
SAE Grade
0W-40
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445)
12.9
Viscosity @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445)
70.8
Viscosity Index186
MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684)21600
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)
1.34
Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981)
0.1
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.6
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)12.6
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92)
226
Density @ 15ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052)
0.8456

Here is a good thread... With Blackstone UOA reports

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...-thread-7.html

I can also vouch for Redline. Been using it for a while on my Audi C4 - I5 20V Turbo (15/50) & C6 - V10 (0/40 - but will switch to Kev's mix next time around) S6's and started on the 997TT (using Kevin's mix).

I use other Redline products, and have nothing but good things to say about them.

Ed

Charles and Kevin - This is an excellent debate and there is a lot to learn.

Kevin - I read your entire thread and will adopt your process and methodology 100%.

Charles the LSPI sounds like a much nearer fire than long term wear.

Why did they leave the calcium levels relatively high in DI40 and not go as low as XP9 ? What are the risks of using XP9 or partially blending XP9 with DI40 ?

One thing is for sure - no more heavy accelerations for me after long idles. :burnout:

Hoping somewhere in the middle there is a best solution. Thanks guys !

Mexico, I can tell you that with the TURBO Porsche engine when running Mobil 1, Motul and or Redline (a ConocoPhillips Co)when you blend the oils to get off the 0W40 wear metals go down..

We do NOT want the oil to sheer into a 30 weight. Some midnight homework..

What is HTHS value and why does it matter..
Why does the VI matter and why does it tell us about the makeup base stock of a oil.
Look at each manufacture specs to find out these numbers and values.

I posted two good oils. Each oil is classified as a 0W40.. Look at the viscosity of each oil.. Which one is thicker.. How does it pour at "X" temp? If I was to post Motul >>it will as a rule run thin in the viscosity range (sales point for the company to make more power)
I tear down many sets of Porsche turbochargers on a weekly basis, and turbo engines (not as frequent) I quickly can see and gauge the wear in the critical components. When running a blended oil we net a 2.5W45.. Again the optimum weight for our engine (my opinion) based off of years of UOA on "our" engines.

Which Liqui Moly 05-40W are we talking about?

Like most old men - I have to sleep but here's my understanding after a little research.

What is HTHS value and why does it matter..

High Temp High Shear - The optimum HTHS rating maximizes engine efficiency against engine wear.

Why does the VI matter and why does it tell us about the makeup base stock of a oil.

VI is Viscosity Index - the difference between the oils' centistokes value at 40 and 100 Celsius. The higher the value the more consistent the oil is as temps go higher. Better stated as the oils' viscosity resistance to temperature. VI also indicates hydrocarbon content.

So taking a stab at one question - why not use Driven XP9 in a DD car ?

*Probably because it has low numbers that result in higher performance but premature wear. More frequent engine rebuilds.

* The above statement is incorrect as noted by Charles later in this thread .

"XP9 would give you the best wear performance of any Driven oil, but you'd have to change the oil every 500 miles, because it's a low detergent oil"

Delete. Charles Navarro posted a correction to Kevin's earlier post.