997 Turbo Electrical Issues
01-13-2019, 01:53 PM
#1
Track Day
Thread Starter
997 Turbo Electrical Issues
New poster here.
I’ve been searching through various threads and have some ideas but wanted to be specific about the issues I’m having with my 2009 911 Turbo Cab. I
drive it once or twice a week and I’m used to the battery issues. Tried to start it a few days ago and it wouldn’t but this time it was different. It seemed the key wasn’t recognized. No ignition lights came on and none of the usual clicking sounds. It’s winter so I tried a new battery with the same result.
Replacing the fob batteries and trying both keys also had no effect. Lights, door chimes, and seat controls work fine but the passenger side window is
partially down like when the battery dies.
So, I’ve ordered a new ignition switch and clutch switch from Pelican Parts since those are relatively easy to replace and I’m aware of the negative
battery wire issues but was wondering if anyone else has experienced these issues and how they dealt with them.
Any advice would be appreciated
I’ve been searching through various threads and have some ideas but wanted to be specific about the issues I’m having with my 2009 911 Turbo Cab. I
drive it once or twice a week and I’m used to the battery issues. Tried to start it a few days ago and it wouldn’t but this time it was different. It seemed the key wasn’t recognized. No ignition lights came on and none of the usual clicking sounds. It’s winter so I tried a new battery with the same result.
Replacing the fob batteries and trying both keys also had no effect. Lights, door chimes, and seat controls work fine but the passenger side window is
partially down like when the battery dies.
So, I’ve ordered a new ignition switch and clutch switch from Pelican Parts since those are relatively easy to replace and I’m aware of the negative
battery wire issues but was wondering if anyone else has experienced these issues and how they dealt with them.
Any advice would be appreciated
01-13-2019, 03:08 PM
#2
Seems like a door module issue. Dealer visit for sure unless you have someone that can code a new module in. Someone with a Durametric Pro can visit your issues. Look at actual values on all modules and see where the voltage loss is coming from. These cars are different and troubleshooting wth the proper tools are a must.
01-15-2019, 07:38 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
on my 997.1TTi used the have the issue where the key was not recognized after it sat for a while, try to unlock the door manually and then press the button on the key and it should recognize it. this happened usually when it sat a while, kind of a sleep mode if you will
01-16-2019, 10:07 AM
#6
Track Day
Thread Starter
I’ll just replace the ignition and clutch switches for now and see what happens. If nothing changes then I’ll probably just haul it off to the dealership. Thanks guys, I’ll post my results.
01-16-2019, 12:08 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
I would do what sfbanchs suggests before spending any time/money. There may be threads about the same issue. It would be odd (though not unheard of) for something to break just because the car was sitting.
Ed
Ed
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01-17-2019, 02:26 PM
#8
Racer
You would be well advised to take actbi5's advise and others above, and hook up a meter and search for error codes. If you are at all mechanically inclined, you should have a diagnostic box anyway. Its worth it in the short and long run. Failing that, make sure you have completely drained your electrical system by leaving the battery disconnected for at least 20 minutes. Hooking up a new battery in less time can cause the electronics to behave in mysterious ways. The systems anomalies you describe don't seem to be directly related, but may be addressed by using a diagnostic tool after ensuring the electrical components are completely discharged. Let us know what you discover please. good luck.
01-20-2019, 03:36 PM
#9
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You might try unlocking the old fashioned way, key in the slot and turn. I've heard this resets things.
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02-03-2019, 01:56 PM
#11
Track Day
Thread Starter
No progress
Sorry for the late update, I was out of town for the last two weeks. So far I’ve replaced the ignition switch and both clutch switches. Battery replacement earlier. Checked all of the fuses and tried attaching my Foxwell NT510 scanner but since there is no response to key insertion, the scanner can’t communicate. I tried this also with my other key. Kind of out of ideas. Thanks to everyone for your input.
02-07-2019, 10:53 PM
#12
Track Day
Thread Starter
Guys, I really appreciate all of your responses. I’m starting to think that this is an immobilizer issue. I don’t relish the thought of flatbedding this beast to the dealership but I may have to. I spoke to a bunch of mechanics at a local reputable Porsche race support shop here in Cincy today who thought my only option was the dealership for an immobilizer issue. How common is this sort of thing and what kind of expense could it involve?
02-08-2019, 12:54 AM
#13
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Guys, I really appreciate all of your responses. I’m starting to think that this is an immobilizer issue. I don’t relish the thought of flatbedding this beast to the dealership but I may have to. I spoke to a bunch of mechanics at a local reputable Porsche race support shop here in Cincy today who thought my only option was the dealership for an immobilizer issue. How common is this sort of thing and what kind of expense could it involve?
02-08-2019, 02:17 AM
#14
Track Day
Thread Starter
Ok, Worth a try for sure. I had both keys in the car with me when I thought it might be a bad key chip but didn’t necessarily hold both close to the ignition switch. Would there be any signal in the dash that this is in fact an immobilizer problem?
02-08-2019, 02:15 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
If you haven't tried these things, they may be worth a shot:
1, Bring the key out of hibernation mode by opening the door manually - I think you have done this
2. Re-synch the key, place it in the ignition and move it to the second position, then press and hold the unlock key "until a red light flashes on the dash" - I did not see what light is meant by that
3. Replace the battery and reprogram the key by inserting into the door and turn left and then right
The other description is to replace the key itself, but that is way pricey and I am not sure you have a key issue at all since both keys are misbehaving but on the 996 forum it mentions a red light on the dashboard by the windshield.
Also on the 996 forum it says that your key head may have a problem (why both would go at the same time is a little disconcerting), but the fix is:
New Key Head is $125 from Suncoast http://www.e-partssales.com/miva/mer...y_Code=996keys I think the Retail at your local dealer should be about $150... Programing should be about $50-60... You just have to Swap the Key Blade to the new one, and your good to go for about $200... Good luck
More 996 posts:
The battery in the key fob has nothing to do with the engine's inability to start.
The RFID pill in the key fob is the key.
There is a critical electronic control on the floorboard under one of the seats that is at risk of getting wet if any water gets into the cabin. When this gets wet all sorts of things happen.
More directly to the issue of the engine not starting, there is a radio transceiver in the dash that communicates with the RFID pill in the key fob.
If this communication doesn't happen due to in your car's case because the in dash transceiver got wet/damaged then the engine will not start.
There is no immobilzer reset I'm aware of that can be done by someone without access to the proper test equipment and the factory link up for security codes.
With the proper diagnostics computer available at a Porsche dealer the car's security system controllers can be queried for any problems, error codes and the reason for the car's behavior determined.
Another old one from another site:
If battery on fob blinks the LED on it do the following:
Open the car with the other key.
Insert the fob not working into ignition switch and turn it on, but not starting car, but just as you would to check oil.
Once on, hit the "unlock door" button on fob in ignition switch.
It now should respond
And another from the same site:
put the key in don't turn it just press the key fob to open the doors. And wait for a bleep , job done , repeat for other key very simple but obviously a Porsche money making secret 997 turbo 2007
From another site:
The problem turned out to be the crankshaft position sensor. - however I am not sure that applies since you get no messaging on the dash
and
if you have the spare key, try it and see if it starts.
If you don't have a spare key make sure that the immobilizer transponder in the key is in place.
I had a customer once who called and his car wouldn't start, just like yours.
He tried everything as well: push-starting, bypassing the clutch switch, etc.
He had even replaced the key remote's battery.
In the end it turned out to be a missing transponder which got dislodged when he replace the remote's battery.
Inside the key fob there should be a small glass "pill" inserted into the plastic.
That's the transponder for the immobilizer. If it's not there or is not the correct one the car will not start.
But you have a spare and that behaves the same way, so... not sure this applies.
and
My immobilizer failed a few years ago, Boardwalk spent a long time trouble-shooting and eventually replaced the immobilizer. (I had replaced the ignition switch and tried everything I could think of)
and
There is clearly a bug in the CLU (immobilizer) computer that causes the problem. They may have to clear out the programs and re-enter them (still a very easy thing to do) to get it to work. They may have done this but from your description it sounds like they might have just tried your keys without reprogramming.
and the solution for one of the guys in the thread I have been quoting (not to say this is your issue):
Picking it up tonight. The new CLU arrived but it still popped fuses, they had to trace it back to find out why. The guy found that the last time I removed my stereo I must have pinched a wire on a loom when I pushed it back in, and that somehow would occasionally rub against the metal tray that houses the radio thus grounding out. They're not going to charge me for the CLU, not sure waht the end bill will be but will find out this evening or early Thursday morning when I pick it up. Check this one up to "pilot error". Figuring the end bill will be around $500 including a new key.
The only other suggestions I have seen are to replace ignition and clutch switches (with what you describe most have discounted the clutch switch since the messaging on the dash would be different). You said you replaced BOTH clutch switches, not that it matters, but to my knowledge there is only one. Since you have already done that, then you have something else going on.
Ed
1, Bring the key out of hibernation mode by opening the door manually - I think you have done this
2. Re-synch the key, place it in the ignition and move it to the second position, then press and hold the unlock key "until a red light flashes on the dash" - I did not see what light is meant by that
3. Replace the battery and reprogram the key by inserting into the door and turn left and then right
The other description is to replace the key itself, but that is way pricey and I am not sure you have a key issue at all since both keys are misbehaving but on the 996 forum it mentions a red light on the dashboard by the windshield.
Also on the 996 forum it says that your key head may have a problem (why both would go at the same time is a little disconcerting), but the fix is:
New Key Head is $125 from Suncoast http://www.e-partssales.com/miva/mer...y_Code=996keys I think the Retail at your local dealer should be about $150... Programing should be about $50-60... You just have to Swap the Key Blade to the new one, and your good to go for about $200... Good luck
More 996 posts:
The battery in the key fob has nothing to do with the engine's inability to start.
The RFID pill in the key fob is the key.
There is a critical electronic control on the floorboard under one of the seats that is at risk of getting wet if any water gets into the cabin. When this gets wet all sorts of things happen.
More directly to the issue of the engine not starting, there is a radio transceiver in the dash that communicates with the RFID pill in the key fob.
If this communication doesn't happen due to in your car's case because the in dash transceiver got wet/damaged then the engine will not start.
There is no immobilzer reset I'm aware of that can be done by someone without access to the proper test equipment and the factory link up for security codes.
With the proper diagnostics computer available at a Porsche dealer the car's security system controllers can be queried for any problems, error codes and the reason for the car's behavior determined.
Another old one from another site:
If battery on fob blinks the LED on it do the following:
Open the car with the other key.
Insert the fob not working into ignition switch and turn it on, but not starting car, but just as you would to check oil.
Once on, hit the "unlock door" button on fob in ignition switch.
It now should respond
And another from the same site:
put the key in don't turn it just press the key fob to open the doors. And wait for a bleep , job done , repeat for other key very simple but obviously a Porsche money making secret 997 turbo 2007
From another site:
The problem turned out to be the crankshaft position sensor. - however I am not sure that applies since you get no messaging on the dash
and
if you have the spare key, try it and see if it starts.
If you don't have a spare key make sure that the immobilizer transponder in the key is in place.
I had a customer once who called and his car wouldn't start, just like yours.
He tried everything as well: push-starting, bypassing the clutch switch, etc.
He had even replaced the key remote's battery.
In the end it turned out to be a missing transponder which got dislodged when he replace the remote's battery.
Inside the key fob there should be a small glass "pill" inserted into the plastic.
That's the transponder for the immobilizer. If it's not there or is not the correct one the car will not start.
But you have a spare and that behaves the same way, so... not sure this applies.
and
My immobilizer failed a few years ago, Boardwalk spent a long time trouble-shooting and eventually replaced the immobilizer. (I had replaced the ignition switch and tried everything I could think of)
and
There is clearly a bug in the CLU (immobilizer) computer that causes the problem. They may have to clear out the programs and re-enter them (still a very easy thing to do) to get it to work. They may have done this but from your description it sounds like they might have just tried your keys without reprogramming.
and the solution for one of the guys in the thread I have been quoting (not to say this is your issue):
Picking it up tonight. The new CLU arrived but it still popped fuses, they had to trace it back to find out why. The guy found that the last time I removed my stereo I must have pinched a wire on a loom when I pushed it back in, and that somehow would occasionally rub against the metal tray that houses the radio thus grounding out. They're not going to charge me for the CLU, not sure waht the end bill will be but will find out this evening or early Thursday morning when I pick it up. Check this one up to "pilot error". Figuring the end bill will be around $500 including a new key.
The only other suggestions I have seen are to replace ignition and clutch switches (with what you describe most have discounted the clutch switch since the messaging on the dash would be different). You said you replaced BOTH clutch switches, not that it matters, but to my knowledge there is only one. Since you have already done that, then you have something else going on.
Ed