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I will be honest, in all my years of owning Porsche's and Exotics, I have never driven a paddle shift. I am doing the Porsche Experience in Atlanta in October and signed up to drive both a 911 Turbo and GT3. This will be my first paddle experience. Guess I am old school, I like three pedals.
They are hard to compare as they are so different. The 997 Turbo is NOT a Carrera with more power, it is something completely different. The transmission in the 997.2 might be the best manual I have ever driven, and I have driven ALOT of manuals. Shifts are very precise, the gearbox feels right and the clutch is perfect. Going from a car I considered the best manual ever to the Turbo was a bit of a shock. My biggest issue with the Turbo is the clutch and this can be fixed. When I am completely done dialing it in, it will be much better, but I still think the 997.2 has a better transmission. Thee BBi has already gotten rid of most of the characteristics I did not like.
My 997.2 is a second gen 997 while my Turbo is a first gen. I guess I feel if both were set up with paddles, I would still think the 997.2 is more refined overall but it would definitely level the field more. I love driving both. I appreciate the 997.2 for the smoothness and refinement. I appreciate the Turbo for the speed and challenge of driving it. I actually have the Carrera for sale, but it is just because I have had it longer. Really, I could sell either one, keep the other one and be just as happy either way. Both are Porsche's and are amazing and beautiful cars. I am lucky to own either. lol
The PDK in Sport or Sport Plus knows where you need to be. You cannot out think the computer. I let it do the work and it is amazing for an Auto style transmission.
The PDK in Sport or Sport Plus knows where you need to be. You cannot out think the computer. I let it do the work and it is amazing for an Auto style transmission.
The manual has died for 4 reasons.
1. Formula 1 tech trickling down to production cars- Kinda goes to win on Sunday sell on Monday. Paddle cars are faster, can accommodate taller drivers, and allow drivers to focus more on the driving and lines than shifting. Those who are buying cars to track want paddles, and those manufactures that win races, their clients want what the race cars have.
2. Used vs new car buyers- New high end car buyers want the latest and greatest and do not buy necessarily due to driver preference. The also tend to not hold on to cars much longer than 1-3 years. They want the most cutting edge to show off and to hold value. Used car buyers tend to buy cars that they want due to driving characteristics. Right this minute, itf I was to buy a new 991 and they offered it in a stick, I would go paddle because it is what everyone wants, it is faster and it is the cutting edge technology. Buying used, I will get a stick because I like to shift the car vs having a computer do it. Part of the driving experience.
3. Current designs- With paddles and computers becoming more and more common, it is hard for manufactures to build manual versions as well. Cars now a days are designed from the ground up to have paddles. To try and modify the design to incorporate a manual options is getting harder and harder. It is simply impossible in some cars, like the Aventendor or 488 can not be modified period for a manual as they were designed ground up to be paddles. It just does not make financial sense anymore for a manufacturer to make both versions especially when the demand for new manuals is almost non-existent.
4. Speed- For years to get more speed, you added power or CID. With current government regs, emissions and safety, this is not that possible anymore. The next way was go lightweight. With safety regs, there is only so much you can do and so much of cars is made out of carbon these days, they are about as light as they are going to get. Always room to shave some weight, but it is more in grams than pounds these days. So, you have thrown all the power you can, lightened it as much as you can, what do you do? Use technology. No person will ever match the speed and efficiency of a computer. A dual clutch paddle is much faster than a stick. A dual clutch paddle with a computer can shift in a 10th of a second, a person simply can not push in the clutch, move the stick and disengage the clutch remotely close in time to what a dual paddle can. The time differences between the two are getting farther and farther apart also.
For me, the fun in driving my 997tt manual is not how fast I get from 0-60, it is how much fun I have getting there, and I have more fun with a stick. Both Aston and Lambo tried manual special editions in the past 5 years and they did not sell well. They did well in the used market. Take the LP640 Murcielago. Only 10 manuals exist in the US, and they are getting 60%-100% more in the used market than the E gear. Rarity is one reason, but fun factor is another.
It is the end of an era and the writing is on the wall. One day soon, the last manual will be offered in the US under some brand and then it will be over except for the used market.
I have driven a PDK and I must say it is impressive. Lightening fast shifts, launch control and can be driven in traffic and you don't get a sore leg.
Here's where I have a problem with it: Take 2 identical Porsche's with PDK. Put a 70 year old grandma that has driven Buicks all her life in one car and a Formula 1 driver in the other. Give grandma 5 min of instruction and let them drag race. They will tie the race, with no driver skill required. I pride myself to be able to handle a high hp supercar with a manual.
The new generation doesn't care though, I have a 25 yr old friend that is into cars and has no interest in manuals at all. Its a shame like others have said the manual is going to go the way of the dodo bird.
To anwer the OP's question, yes I am satisfied. Just put in Kevin's tune and a 3" exhaust, running about 600 hp. What more do I need?
Lol. It really is crazy that both are from the same generation of Porsche in the 997, but are so different. I really thought a 997 TT was like a 997 Carrera with way more power. Nope, not even close. Yes, my 997TT is a raging bitch from hell, but she has a sweet side as well. Once we are through the dating phase, I am sure a mutual love will blossom before we go to the altar.... lol
Is it correct that hp gains after a point only bring about incremental improvement but at the cost of reliability and mechanical life?
The numbers (as I know them) don't support the PDK/expert MT drag race. AFAIK - given equal cars the PDK will always win over the manual.
Kevin from Ultimate Motorwerks (UMW). He is a real guru on these Turbos and an active member of the forum.
He uses a remote data logger and makes a custom tune for your car. From my data I sent him after the tune he estimated I am at about 520 whp or approx 600 at the crank. For making big power he is very specific on exhaust, Speedtech and Europipe 3” he said work well.
I’m not planning on any more especially since I have a cabrio. It’s stupid fast now, at least for me. The Mezger will go higher reliably though from what I have been told.
An expert in a manual car could get their *** handed to them with grandma driving the same car with pdk.
I had recent success with my business and I went from a 996 Carrera that I made to my liking to a 997.1 Turbo with Mods. I still have and love my Arctic silver/Black 996 Carrera. Ive basicaly left it perfect for my use with the subtil mods I made to it. Its a fantastic car. Viceral and analog in many ways with just enough modern creature conforts. It looks impecable and some people assume its new. Some ask me what year it is since they are rare and especially in the condition I keep it. I feel its starting to look like a classic for many people. Valets and people ot gas stations ask me about it and its fun to drive and wind out the engine.
The first porsche I drove was my highschool friend´s father´s Black 930 Turbo. I was hooked since that experience and wanted a turbo because of the sheer thrill of acceleration that I felt. Almost 7 years later I drove another friends impecable 2004 996 turbo. I was able to drive it hard to a beach destination almost 4 hours away. To say the least, by that time I was completly sure I was at some point going to have a turbo. Its acceleration, perfect size and looks made me love it. Changing gears, doing donuts in it and the hard acceleration when the turbos kicked in made it one of the most fun cars I had ever driven. I was mostly fixed on a 996 turbo since I loved the raw feel and the boost. An opportunity came up to purchase a friends impecable 15,000 mile 997 Gt Silver with special terracota interior, sport seats and all the right mods (Sharkwerks stage 2, two different sets of HRE Wheels, Bustein damptronics). I decided to buy it. Ive been enjoying it very much. Its also one of the last Manual 6sp 911 Turbos that was made and a manual is a must for me.
My partner has a 991 Turbo S and although its a very rapid and stable car and has less turbo lag that the 997.1 Turbo, my manual 997.1 turbo gives me funner driving experience. Im very satisfied and will keep it for a long time.I still drive my 996 Carrera. Both cars have different characters. Over all I feel the 997 Turbo is the best turbo out there right now as far as modern day amenities and driving experience. It has a good sound system, is well made, hauls *** and looks great. I definetly think that you will enjoy the car.
More than likely I am going to graduate from a 997.2 C4S to a 997.2 Turbo or Turbo S.
For those that own one of these vehicles and especially those that can afford to buy a more expensive car, what are your long term feelings on owning a 997.2 Turbo or S ?
Are you tempted by any other cars or a later model 991 Turbo?
Any thing you'd change about your car or how you bought it ?
Today I drove a 458, Huracan, R8, and GT3. I gotta say that with the possible exception of the R8, the others don't do a particularly good job of marrying sport car performance with comfort. Porsche has figured that out, in my opinion. The GT3 was 991, but after the track time I climbed into my 997TTS and headed home. I just love that I have relative comfort behind the wheel while always having the option to drive the crap out of my car. For the record, I'm 5'9" and about 175 lbs, so the comfort has nothing to do with my size. The others are cars that are harder to climb into, and that feel much more restrictive than the Porsches. Like I said, the R8 was an exception of sorts, and much more like driving my 997 or the GT3 at the track. Just my thoughts, and they come from an ignorant Porsche consumer!
09-23-2018, 10:34 AM
