BBi Slave review
09-21-2018, 12:51 PM
#1
BBi Slave review
Got my car back today. Long story short for those not following my other threads, took engine out, addressed some Porsche bad designs (coolant jackets), some maintenance, and a BBi clutch install. Since this is about the clutch, the other stuff is fine and I found the best Porsche shop in 1000 miles that gave me an amazing deal.
On to the review. I did not like the stock hydraulic clutch at all. I also have a Sach 2.5. Lack of feeling, hard to launch, stalls, shudders and engagement was WAY to high for me, 10 inches off the floor and near the top of the clutch pedal stroke. Plus, just a disconnected feeling from the car. I looked at the Shark Werx GT2 slave kit, doing a GT@ setup with tapping and drilling, and the BBI. My new Porsche guy had done many f each and said his clients were most happy with the BBi. So, with his advice, I decided to go this route.
Well, got to Palafox Imports, got in, pushed in the clutch and though, damn, that sucker is STIFF. Then I drove it. The engagement point is much lower, before it was almost 10 inches off the floor and at the top of the pedal stroke. Now it is 2-3 inches, almost exactly where my 997.2 is. I can now launch it. I have not stalled it. It does not shudder occasionally. It is 1000 times better than the hydraulic assist.
I was expecting it to be stiffer, but not as stiff as it is. It is like Ferrari 512 stiff. If I lived in a high traffic, stop and go area like Atlanta, I am not sure I could take it. I am going to play with helper springs to see if I can get it a little looser.
Overall, the quality was good, install straight forward and I did not modify things too much if I want to go back to stock. I can live with the stiffness as the car is much more fun and easier to drive. Like I said, I may play with helper springs, but going to get some seat time before I do. Overall, I would do it again.
On to the review. I did not like the stock hydraulic clutch at all. I also have a Sach 2.5. Lack of feeling, hard to launch, stalls, shudders and engagement was WAY to high for me, 10 inches off the floor and near the top of the clutch pedal stroke. Plus, just a disconnected feeling from the car. I looked at the Shark Werx GT2 slave kit, doing a GT@ setup with tapping and drilling, and the BBI. My new Porsche guy had done many f each and said his clients were most happy with the BBi. So, with his advice, I decided to go this route.
Well, got to Palafox Imports, got in, pushed in the clutch and though, damn, that sucker is STIFF. Then I drove it. The engagement point is much lower, before it was almost 10 inches off the floor and at the top of the pedal stroke. Now it is 2-3 inches, almost exactly where my 997.2 is. I can now launch it. I have not stalled it. It does not shudder occasionally. It is 1000 times better than the hydraulic assist.
I was expecting it to be stiffer, but not as stiff as it is. It is like Ferrari 512 stiff. If I lived in a high traffic, stop and go area like Atlanta, I am not sure I could take it. I am going to play with helper springs to see if I can get it a little looser.
Overall, the quality was good, install straight forward and I did not modify things too much if I want to go back to stock. I can live with the stiffness as the car is much more fun and easier to drive. Like I said, I may play with helper springs, but going to get some seat time before I do. Overall, I would do it again.
09-21-2018, 01:18 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Did they install the GT2 spring when they did the slave?
Ed
Ed
09-21-2018, 01:57 PM
#5
No, no spring. The BBi setup is much different than the Sharkwerx or GT2 clutch conversion. I did a lot of research, so here is how they work-
SHARKWERX- Uses a GT2 clutch slave with a special bracket to mount, but existing fork. You take a gear out of the pump and plug the lines. The hydraulics are completely disconnected and the pump no longer pumps the hydraulic assist. You have to completely flush any pentosin out of the system and use tranny fluid. Risk of plugged line leaking and any pentosin contamination will completely mess up the system. As stated, you also have to remove a gear out of the pump so it no longer pumps.
GT2 SETUP- Same as Sharkwerx, BUT, uses the GT2 fork, which is on the other side of the clutch than stock. You have to drill and tap to mount. Other than that, it is similar to the Sharkwerx in how it operates.
BBi- just the slave mounted where the stock one is. It takes the hydraulics and simply loops them back to the pump and bypasses any assist. So, basically the fluid is pumped to the BBi slave and goes right back to the pump without adding any assist. This method is the most least invasive and easiest to put back to stock, because all you have to do is take off BBi valve and put back on stock. You also do not have to flush out the pentosin and modify pump.
All are good, and no kit is right. The all work, and have pluses and minuses. I was leaning GT2, but went BBi in the end.
SHARKWERX- Uses a GT2 clutch slave with a special bracket to mount, but existing fork. You take a gear out of the pump and plug the lines. The hydraulics are completely disconnected and the pump no longer pumps the hydraulic assist. You have to completely flush any pentosin out of the system and use tranny fluid. Risk of plugged line leaking and any pentosin contamination will completely mess up the system. As stated, you also have to remove a gear out of the pump so it no longer pumps.
GT2 SETUP- Same as Sharkwerx, BUT, uses the GT2 fork, which is on the other side of the clutch than stock. You have to drill and tap to mount. Other than that, it is similar to the Sharkwerx in how it operates.
BBi- just the slave mounted where the stock one is. It takes the hydraulics and simply loops them back to the pump and bypasses any assist. So, basically the fluid is pumped to the BBi slave and goes right back to the pump without adding any assist. This method is the most least invasive and easiest to put back to stock, because all you have to do is take off BBi valve and put back on stock. You also do not have to flush out the pentosin and modify pump.
All are good, and no kit is right. The all work, and have pluses and minuses. I was leaning GT2, but went BBi in the end.
09-21-2018, 03:21 PM
#6
BTW, when I mean play with helper springs, it means taking our the spring housing, opening it up (carefully) and replacing the spring in the housing. Can get them from Lowes actually. Just see if I can find the right one. Get 15-20% of the stiffness out and it is absolutely perfect.
09-21-2018, 04:03 PM
#7
Just drove it again. It is not as stiff as I initially thought. I think it was just a shock from the last time I drove it 2 weeks ago. Getting use to it and starting to kinda like the stiffness. Would not mind 10% less/
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09-21-2018, 06:45 PM
#8
If you don't want to mess with finding a garage door spring at the hardware store, you can also order a GT3 helper spring (997-423-081-06-OEM). It helps a noticeable amount vs. the stock 997TT helper spring.
09-21-2018, 08:55 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
See my review from ~2 years ago -- I have the BBi clutch slave and added the GT3 spring -- it's the right balance - takes some of the weight off and retains the BBi feel, but still a mid-to-heavy GT car feel.
09-22-2018, 03:25 PM
#10
GT3 spring ordered. I read your review. Exactly like mine. 1000 percent better, but a little too stiff. Thanks for the GT3 suggestion, going to try it. Spring will be here Wed. I did blow out my clutch master cylinder yesterday. Happens on about 1 out of 3 conversions and always happens within 24 hours. So, new MC on Monday.
09-22-2018, 03:36 PM
#11
I recently did a BBI install with the GT3 spring. I changed my master cylinder at the same time to avoid the blowout. The stiffness is perfect.
BTW, my local shop is testing a Master Cylinder from SRM that may work better with the BBI slave (something to do with bore size). If you want any info on that let me know.
BTW, my local shop is testing a Master Cylinder from SRM that may work better with the BBI slave (something to do with bore size). If you want any info on that let me know.
09-22-2018, 04:41 PM
#12
Very much! Checked out the helper spring setup. Any tips on getting it out? Looks like the safety switch is in the way, not a big deal, but it is up in the dash and not much access at all. No access at all can actually be applied to a bunch of the car...lol
09-24-2018, 02:41 PM
#13
R&R of the helper spring can be a 5-10 minute job, but if you run into any complication it can take quite a bit longer. To make things easier/give more clearance, remove the lower dash first. Here are some instructions I put together previously on this on 6speed. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post4444666
When you receive the new helper spring, you will see there is a short metal wire inserted in a hole on one end along with a rod/pin and circlip on the other. The attachment to the car is basically just at the rod/pin and from the tension of the spring.
Lie down in the driver's footwell with a head-light or handheld flashlight. Look at the clutch pedal lever and you will see the clutch switch. Twist to unclip and simply move to the side. Now, find a nail/strong wire, etc. that you can push through the hole on the helper spring assembly in the lower dash area. After pushing the nail/wire through, I STRONGLY SUGGEST taking a small piece of duct tape and securing the nail/wire to the small piece of metal protruding through the helper spring assembly (with the hole that you just put the wire through). This will prevent it from falling out as the spring loses compression. If you don't do this, the stupid assembly can fall apart and significantly increase difficulty of removal.
With the lower dash end secured with the nail/wire, remove the circlip (flathead, needle-nose pliers, etc.). Now, with your free hand (other on the spring assembly), push down on the clutch pedal and the spring assembly should be able to unseat from under the lower dash area. It is very difficult to do this by yourself so a better solution is to get someone not too big (your kid or wife) to sit in the driver's seat while you are under the dash and push on the clutch pedal. Yes, you may get a shoe in the mouth during this all. Now, you just need to remove the rod/pin holding the assembly to the clutch pedal lever. This is easy to do by slightly actuating the lever (you should be able to even push the rod/pin out with your finger) or with a gentle tap from the tool of your choosing. Pay attention to the orientation of this rod/pin so you put it back in the same way. Now you can completely remove the helper spring assembly from the car. With it out, take a feel at how hard it is to actuate the clutch pedal. I drove with a GT2 conversion and no spring for a few weeks...not pleasant in stop and go.
To replace with the GT3 spring, after taping the nail/wire to the metal rod on the helper spring, get back in the footwell and seat the lower dash portion of the helper spring. Now, push the clutch pedal to get the angle right to easily slip the rod/pin back in. Let go of the clutch pedal and re-insert the circlip. When you are happy with everything, remove the tape and nail/wire, re-secure the clutch switch, and you are done (after re-installing the lower dash if you removed). Okay, now go enjoy a much more livable and predictable clutch that the factory hydraulic TT one.
When you receive the new helper spring, you will see there is a short metal wire inserted in a hole on one end along with a rod/pin and circlip on the other. The attachment to the car is basically just at the rod/pin and from the tension of the spring.
Lie down in the driver's footwell with a head-light or handheld flashlight. Look at the clutch pedal lever and you will see the clutch switch. Twist to unclip and simply move to the side. Now, find a nail/strong wire, etc. that you can push through the hole on the helper spring assembly in the lower dash area. After pushing the nail/wire through, I STRONGLY SUGGEST taking a small piece of duct tape and securing the nail/wire to the small piece of metal protruding through the helper spring assembly (with the hole that you just put the wire through). This will prevent it from falling out as the spring loses compression. If you don't do this, the stupid assembly can fall apart and significantly increase difficulty of removal.
With the lower dash end secured with the nail/wire, remove the circlip (flathead, needle-nose pliers, etc.). Now, with your free hand (other on the spring assembly), push down on the clutch pedal and the spring assembly should be able to unseat from under the lower dash area. It is very difficult to do this by yourself so a better solution is to get someone not too big (your kid or wife) to sit in the driver's seat while you are under the dash and push on the clutch pedal. Yes, you may get a shoe in the mouth during this all. Now, you just need to remove the rod/pin holding the assembly to the clutch pedal lever. This is easy to do by slightly actuating the lever (you should be able to even push the rod/pin out with your finger) or with a gentle tap from the tool of your choosing. Pay attention to the orientation of this rod/pin so you put it back in the same way. Now you can completely remove the helper spring assembly from the car. With it out, take a feel at how hard it is to actuate the clutch pedal. I drove with a GT2 conversion and no spring for a few weeks...not pleasant in stop and go.
To replace with the GT3 spring, after taping the nail/wire to the metal rod on the helper spring, get back in the footwell and seat the lower dash portion of the helper spring. Now, push the clutch pedal to get the angle right to easily slip the rod/pin back in. Let go of the clutch pedal and re-insert the circlip. When you are happy with everything, remove the tape and nail/wire, re-secure the clutch switch, and you are done (after re-installing the lower dash if you removed). Okay, now go enjoy a much more livable and predictable clutch that the factory hydraulic TT one.
09-24-2018, 03:42 PM
#14
if you dont flush ALL of the petosin from the clutch reservoir , the master cylinder, and all the line from front to rear your bbi unit will fail in weeks. petosin runs thru the entire system and must be flushed or it will eat the seals in the bbi unit. simply rerouting the fluid from the p/s unit wont work long term
09-24-2018, 04:33 PM
#15
R&R of the helper spring can be a 5-10 minute job, but if you run into any complication it can take quite a bit longer. To make things easier/give more clearance, remove the lower dash first. Here are some instructions I put together previously on this on 6speed. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post4444666
When you receive the new helper spring, you will see there is a short metal wire inserted in a hole on one end along with a rod/pin and circlip on the other. The attachment to the car is basically just at the rod/pin and from the tension of the spring.
Lie down in the driver's footwell with a head-light or handheld flashlight. Look at the clutch pedal lever and you will see the clutch switch. Twist to unclip and simply move to the side. Now, find a nail/strong wire, etc. that you can push through the hole on the helper spring assembly in the lower dash area. After pushing the nail/wire through, I STRONGLY SUGGEST taking a small piece of duct tape and securing the nail/wire to the small piece of metal protruding through the helper spring assembly (with the hole that you just put the wire through). This will prevent it from falling out as the spring loses compression. If you don't do this, the stupid assembly can fall apart and significantly increase difficulty of removal.
With the lower dash end secured with the nail/wire, remove the circlip (flathead, needle-nose pliers, etc.). Now, with your free hand (other on the spring assembly), push down on the clutch pedal and the spring assembly should be able to unseat from under the lower dash area. It is very difficult to do this by yourself so a better solution is to get someone not too big (your kid or wife) to sit in the driver's seat while you are under the dash and push on the clutch pedal. Yes, you may get a shoe in the mouth during this all. Now, you just need to remove the rod/pin holding the assembly to the clutch pedal lever. This is easy to do by slightly actuating the lever (you should be able to even push the rod/pin out with your finger) or with a gentle tap from the tool of your choosing. Pay attention to the orientation of this rod/pin so you put it back in the same way. Now you can completely remove the helper spring assembly from the car. With it out, take a feel at how hard it is to actuate the clutch pedal. I drove with a GT2 conversion and no spring for a few weeks...not pleasant in stop and go.
To replace with the GT3 spring, after taping the nail/wire to the metal rod on the helper spring, get back in the footwell and seat the lower dash portion of the helper spring. Now, push the clutch pedal to get the angle right to easily slip the rod/pin back in. Let go of the clutch pedal and re-insert the circlip. When you are happy with everything, remove the tape and nail/wire, re-secure the clutch switch, and you are done (after re-installing the lower dash if you removed). Okay, now go enjoy a much more livable and predictable clutch that the factory hydraulic TT one.
When you receive the new helper spring, you will see there is a short metal wire inserted in a hole on one end along with a rod/pin and circlip on the other. The attachment to the car is basically just at the rod/pin and from the tension of the spring.
Lie down in the driver's footwell with a head-light or handheld flashlight. Look at the clutch pedal lever and you will see the clutch switch. Twist to unclip and simply move to the side. Now, find a nail/strong wire, etc. that you can push through the hole on the helper spring assembly in the lower dash area. After pushing the nail/wire through, I STRONGLY SUGGEST taking a small piece of duct tape and securing the nail/wire to the small piece of metal protruding through the helper spring assembly (with the hole that you just put the wire through). This will prevent it from falling out as the spring loses compression. If you don't do this, the stupid assembly can fall apart and significantly increase difficulty of removal.
With the lower dash end secured with the nail/wire, remove the circlip (flathead, needle-nose pliers, etc.). Now, with your free hand (other on the spring assembly), push down on the clutch pedal and the spring assembly should be able to unseat from under the lower dash area. It is very difficult to do this by yourself so a better solution is to get someone not too big (your kid or wife) to sit in the driver's seat while you are under the dash and push on the clutch pedal. Yes, you may get a shoe in the mouth during this all. Now, you just need to remove the rod/pin holding the assembly to the clutch pedal lever. This is easy to do by slightly actuating the lever (you should be able to even push the rod/pin out with your finger) or with a gentle tap from the tool of your choosing. Pay attention to the orientation of this rod/pin so you put it back in the same way. Now you can completely remove the helper spring assembly from the car. With it out, take a feel at how hard it is to actuate the clutch pedal. I drove with a GT2 conversion and no spring for a few weeks...not pleasant in stop and go.
To replace with the GT3 spring, after taping the nail/wire to the metal rod on the helper spring, get back in the footwell and seat the lower dash portion of the helper spring. Now, push the clutch pedal to get the angle right to easily slip the rod/pin back in. Let go of the clutch pedal and re-insert the circlip. When you are happy with everything, remove the tape and nail/wire, re-secure the clutch switch, and you are done (after re-installing the lower dash if you removed). Okay, now go enjoy a much more livable and predictable clutch that the factory hydraulic TT one.