Tim Kenney

Hey Guys,

I'm new to the forum and getting close to purchasing my first 911 :-) After much thought and deliberation, I have decided a 997.1 Turbo with a manual transmission is what I'm going to purchase. I had the dealer who has the car run a DME report for me. The ignition ranges all look good according to my research. Can anyone help me out on the fault codes that are showing on the report? My next step is a PPI at an independent local dealer but before I spend the money on that, I want to make sure their are no major concerns from the results of the DME. Anyone have experience with these? I have attached photos of the entire report. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cstyles

Something seems odd about this report. First, that is a LOT of faults if indeed they are all actually present and current. Most concening to my eye is the camshaft deviation fault. That can be either a bad solenoid (no big deal) or a spun camshaft (significant repair requiring engine to be cracked open). These cars do have a somewhat common issue of spun camshafts

Over rev report is odd as well. 3 over revs in both ranges 3 and 4. That's not technically possible to have equal values in two ranges. In order to get to range 4, you register revs in the ranges 1 - 3 on your way up. On the way back down, you register more revs in 3, 2 ,1 ranges. There should be more rev values in range 3 than range 4.

Tim Kenney

Interesting! Yes, the camshaft fault code is a huge concern to me as I search the forum and do research. Seems the P0021 in bank 2 is commonly the worst case scenario. Thank you! More feedback is appreciated... after some research in the last 2 hours, I'm thinking I should walk away from this one.

saabin

Is the CEL on? I would think with some of those codes (the cam one for sure) the CEL would be lit. Is the airblag light on? I would think so with the airbag faults on the report?

Have you seen/driven the car yourself?

I've never seen a report like that, so I cant really tell you for sure.. some of those could be "normal" faults for the specific configuration..

epacman17

If this is a european car there is no CEL for the cam fault. Also, from my own experiance, the cam timing fault on bank 2 can go away by itself, and stay away for 1000-1200 miles (and counting). Don't ask me how that works.

EDIT: Country coding suggests US, so the CEL should probably come on for the VVT fault.
EDIT2: Thread about my P0021 problem:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...ce-needed.html

Dguth

Typically the P0021 is the dreaded cam has spun or it could be actuator is just going bad causing the sensor to delay the reading. Replacing the actuator isn't bad. If the sleeve in the cam has spun slightly, that's a much bigger repair. I'm not a believer of just drive it and it will fix itself. It either moved or didn't. Either something you should get addressed through the PPI and use as your advantage in negotiations.

cstyles

There are reports on this forum where the CEL went away on it's own and things went back to normal for a while - what had actually happened was that the cam had spun a whole revolution in the sleeve and the oiling holes were lined back up again. It will continue rotating inside the sleeve and eventually the condition causing the CEL will recur.

Tim Kenney

Hi Guys,

Update on the status of this car. I received the DME report from the dealer yesterday late afternoon. At that point, I sent it over to my close friend Matt Thomason who owns Euromotive Auto Service and personally owns a 996T. Matt reviewed the DME and told me he has serious concerns about the error codes. Mainly the error code present known as "PA0021 A camshaft position -- system performance bank 2". He pointed me to this article from 6 speed https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...aft-story.html where it specifically mentions the PA0021 camshaft in bank 2 as being either a serious or catastrophic issue. From there I spend 2-3 hours researching the internet like anyone would who was considering purchasing a $68,000 997 911 Turbo would do. I also posted the DME above so I could obtain feedback from the Rennlist community.

After 2-3 hours of research on the issue and getting several responses from trusted Rennlist members backing exactly what my mechanic is saying, I called the dealership this morning. I spoke to the sales manager and explained that I had my mechanic review the DME and also had the Rennlist community review the DME, and that the car could very well have very serious issues. The sales manager, who at present I will leave nameless, tells me that the codes I am seeing on the DME are "Old Codes" and are not longer problems with the car. As I am baffled by this, I explain to him that any good mechanic who fixes a major problem will clear the codes following service. The sales manager then tells me that the codes can not be cleared and that the DME report show "past issues" that may not be present with the car.

At this point, I'm getting fired up. I have spent hours of time researching the issue and talking on the phone to my mechanic who works on Porsches for a living and has been for 15+ years and all of my research tells me this is an issue that needs to be explored/addressed and the sales manager is telling me the car is fine! I explain to the sales manager that the only way for him to know if the issue has been corrected is to clear all of the codes and drive the car for a few days and run another DME -- seems logical right? At this point, he begins telling me, "this is just not the car for you." What?? I like the car, I just don't like that it could need an engine rebuild at worst and at best, have a $1,500+ issue. I'll fast forward a bit but eventually, he says that the ignition ranges can not be changed but he now understands the DME can be cleared... I shortly end the conversation and let him know that the ethical thing, whether for me or for any potential future customer who purchases the car, is to to put the car through a thorough diagnosis before selling it to another consumer. In return I get the line, "I understand and it's ok, this is just not the car for you". I stated that I'm going to put an update to this story on Rennlist so everyone knows the conclusion. I would be wary of not putting this 997.1 Turbo through the paces if your considering purchasing.

30 Minutes later the manager did call me back and said he is going to clear the codes (at this point he now understands they can be cleared) and personally drive the car for a week to see if they pop back up. He mentioned several times that because the Check Engine Light was not on there was not a problem with the car. With all of this being said, the sales manager was kind and did not have an aggressive demeanor. I think it was an honest mistake and he truly thought they were old codes that could not be erased -- at least I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I asked that he please call me after clearing the codes and driving the car for a week to let me know what the next DME test showed. If I receive a call back, I'll update this post.

-Tim

Still searching for a 997T with manual trans, sport adaptive seats, less than 80k miles, and less than 70k price in Blue, White, Gray or Silver. Tune and mods ok if tasteful. Service records and Maint history important. Also want a clean DME :-) I'm a cash buyer.

cstyles

Isn't there a member here with the handle HardHitter that has exactly what you're looking for? If I remember the ad, it was a very well documented and clean car.

Edit: $75k asking and black, not in your list of color preferences. https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...-optioned.html

Tim Kenney

Yes, but his car was black which I don't want. If that is your white 997 Turbo on your signature, I will give you all the money I have plus 1 kidney if you'll sell it to me :-)

cstyles

LOL this one's a keeper! Although I haven't looked at what used kidneys are going for these days...

TT Surgeon

4ocious

Too much hassle and potential problems for me, I would walk away. There are a lot of good reliable 07-08 TT's for sale now, it's just a matter of finding the right one. Be patient.

Tim Kenney

Thanks for the advice. I agree 100%. I'll be walking away from this one and calling the $100 I spent for the DME report $$ well spent. I am going to be patient and I'll also increase my budget for the right car. I have also decided that I'm not buying a car from a dealer. I would much prefer to buy a car from the community whether that be Rennlist or PCA.

Thanks to all for feedback and advice everyone. Hopefully nobody on this forum buys the above referenced car without careful inspection -- Note VIN is on the report above. I'm not sure I trust the dealer to do the right thing based on this experience.

justinevoe

Where?