997.2tt Engine Failure due to oil pump solenoid
03-11-2018, 06:02 PM
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997.2tt Engine Failure due to oil pump solenoid
I just got my new to me 997.2tt and after driving it back 3 days from California noticed at a stop light that the oil pressure light would come on, then drop out entirely, show an error, and after driving off (could be a second, could be a minute or two) would rebound back to where it was. I checked the oil level and it was on the bottom bar (not flashing or showing low), so I added a quart and the issue went away for the time being. I was also having an issue with one bank of cams that had the timing on zero (dyno recorded) and the car was down on power. I changed the oil and figured it was the issue and assumed that the cam issue was a solenoid.
After the oil change the low oil level persisted and given the bullet proof nature of these cars I assumed it was the sensor and an electrical issue as the bank that was having the cam issue was the same one where the sensor was located. I took it to Porsche and they manually checked the oil pressure at idle and it was indeed low. They recommended I replace the solenoid first, and if that wasn't it then the oil pump. As it was an easy job to do the solenoid I opted to do it myself. After a hell of a time dealing with them to get the parts, they came in. Then it turned out that I needed a specialty socket to remove the sensor ($120, for a F'ing socket), so I got it and replaced the sensor. The oil pressure acted normal at idle but the next time I drove it, while on the highway (3rd gear 5,000rpm under load) was going from 5bar to 3bar and doing some other erratic things. After I got it back there was a tapping coming from what sounded like the passenger side of the engine. I was thinking it was something to do with the top end but after further inspection turned out it was coming from the middle of the engine, from the oil pan...
I drained the oil and dropped the pan and it was full of heavy metallic dust and large flakes of what looked like copper. I knew I was screwed...
I refilled it, had it carted off to a local shop that has done big jobs for me in the past and they confirmed it, spun rod bearing, bent rod, etc. Thankfully the cylinders are perfect but it needs rods, a crankshaft, and all the other parts and pieces that go along with a rebuild.
To add insult to injury, the tools required to set the wrist pins, for example, are $600 from Suncoast. The tool is 1mm longer than the one for the non-DFI cars and no one makes a replica yet. Also, the tools to set the camshaft timing is different with no knock off (but Baum makes it, for $500). If anyone needs to rebuild a DFI engine I can make you a sweet deal as no independent shop is going to want to buy $1,100+ in tools to do one job...
Currently, the engine is apart. The crankshaft is being machined by EvoSpec, Carillo Rods with APR bolts, APR Studs, and forged pistons with all the fixin's (ceramic dome, dry-lube skirt, thick wrist pins, etc), and another several thousand in parts (all sensors, oil pump, gaskets, timing components, AOS, reservoir, solenoids, actuators, oil pressure/level senders, and general service items.
Basically, the car will have internals that can make 850hp (according to John Bray at Evo-Spec). I wasn't going to do pistons as the ones in it are perfect but I look at rings as consumables and a set of piston rings from Porsche (no aftermarket available) were $1,300 and my cost on the pistons is under $2,000 (that is a complete deal with rings, pins, all the coatings, etc) so doing the forged ones was a no brainier and that will also allow for bigger HP should I go down that route.
It is an unfortunate situation but I am glad that I didn't drive it "one more time" when I thought it may be a stuck lifter before listening more carefully as that could have been catastrophic.
So, the lesson is folks, do not ignore low oil or oil pressure issues, even when it is 99.9% of the time a sensor.
Also, screw porsche for selling me a $120 socket that is only good for one thing and making all the other tools impossible to get (had to fight with them to sell them to me and then they had to come from germany)
For reference, my car is a 2010 911 Turbo Cab PDK with 61,000 miles on it and after getting it back from CA I drove it 40 miles. My cost per mile is at around $500 currently.
How about that for an introductory post...
Any suggestions for other things to be replaced or any insight is welcomed and appreciated!
After the oil change the low oil level persisted and given the bullet proof nature of these cars I assumed it was the sensor and an electrical issue as the bank that was having the cam issue was the same one where the sensor was located. I took it to Porsche and they manually checked the oil pressure at idle and it was indeed low. They recommended I replace the solenoid first, and if that wasn't it then the oil pump. As it was an easy job to do the solenoid I opted to do it myself. After a hell of a time dealing with them to get the parts, they came in. Then it turned out that I needed a specialty socket to remove the sensor ($120, for a F'ing socket), so I got it and replaced the sensor. The oil pressure acted normal at idle but the next time I drove it, while on the highway (3rd gear 5,000rpm under load) was going from 5bar to 3bar and doing some other erratic things. After I got it back there was a tapping coming from what sounded like the passenger side of the engine. I was thinking it was something to do with the top end but after further inspection turned out it was coming from the middle of the engine, from the oil pan...
I drained the oil and dropped the pan and it was full of heavy metallic dust and large flakes of what looked like copper. I knew I was screwed...
I refilled it, had it carted off to a local shop that has done big jobs for me in the past and they confirmed it, spun rod bearing, bent rod, etc. Thankfully the cylinders are perfect but it needs rods, a crankshaft, and all the other parts and pieces that go along with a rebuild.
To add insult to injury, the tools required to set the wrist pins, for example, are $600 from Suncoast. The tool is 1mm longer than the one for the non-DFI cars and no one makes a replica yet. Also, the tools to set the camshaft timing is different with no knock off (but Baum makes it, for $500). If anyone needs to rebuild a DFI engine I can make you a sweet deal as no independent shop is going to want to buy $1,100+ in tools to do one job...
Currently, the engine is apart. The crankshaft is being machined by EvoSpec, Carillo Rods with APR bolts, APR Studs, and forged pistons with all the fixin's (ceramic dome, dry-lube skirt, thick wrist pins, etc), and another several thousand in parts (all sensors, oil pump, gaskets, timing components, AOS, reservoir, solenoids, actuators, oil pressure/level senders, and general service items.
Basically, the car will have internals that can make 850hp (according to John Bray at Evo-Spec). I wasn't going to do pistons as the ones in it are perfect but I look at rings as consumables and a set of piston rings from Porsche (no aftermarket available) were $1,300 and my cost on the pistons is under $2,000 (that is a complete deal with rings, pins, all the coatings, etc) so doing the forged ones was a no brainier and that will also allow for bigger HP should I go down that route.
It is an unfortunate situation but I am glad that I didn't drive it "one more time" when I thought it may be a stuck lifter before listening more carefully as that could have been catastrophic.
So, the lesson is folks, do not ignore low oil or oil pressure issues, even when it is 99.9% of the time a sensor.
Also, screw porsche for selling me a $120 socket that is only good for one thing and making all the other tools impossible to get (had to fight with them to sell them to me and then they had to come from germany)
For reference, my car is a 2010 911 Turbo Cab PDK with 61,000 miles on it and after getting it back from CA I drove it 40 miles. My cost per mile is at around $500 currently.
How about that for an introductory post...
Any suggestions for other things to be replaced or any insight is welcomed and appreciated!
Last edited by onefastman; 03-11-2018 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Title Change
03-11-2018, 06:34 PM
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That was a hell of an initial post. So sorry to hear about your bad luck but the silver lining is that you will have a built engine capable of high hp. You might want to change your name to Onepissedman.
03-11-2018, 07:35 PM
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Welcome! In an eerie situation, I'm pretty sure I'm in the same boat. I have a 12 997 turbo s. A while ago I started hearing passenger side tapping noise and it was pretty noticeable in the cabin. However it became rpm dependent meaning it wasn't a good sign.
it's been at the dealer for over 4 weeks now and they've tried to thrown an oil pump at it too just like you did. Didn't work and they're trying to figure out what to do next. Already dropped my motor at least 2x by now. In addition just like your scenario they also drained the oil and found metal flakes too..
I'm under CPO warranty so I think I might be okay.
it's been at the dealer for over 4 weeks now and they've tried to thrown an oil pump at it too just like you did. Didn't work and they're trying to figure out what to do next. Already dropped my motor at least 2x by now. In addition just like your scenario they also drained the oil and found metal flakes too..
I'm under CPO warranty so I think I might be okay.
03-11-2018, 08:05 PM
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Seems pretty cut and dry to me if that’s the case.
I doubt they do any tear down and end up giving you a new engine.
This is is what my bearings looked like (the one with the rod was completely spinning and the rod is bent).
I found out that Porsche has revised the oil pump three times on this car (new part numbers) so am thinking this is a known issue...
Welcome! In an eerie situation, I'm pretty sure I'm in the same boat. I have a 12 997 turbo s. A while ago I started hearing passenger side tapping noise and it was pretty noticeable in the cabin. However it became rpm dependent meaning it wasn't a good sign.
it's been at the dealer for over 4 weeks now and they've tried to thrown an oil pump at it too just like you did. Didn't work and they're trying to figure out what to do next. Already dropped my motor at least 2x by now. In addition just like your scenario they also drained the oil and found metal flakes too..
I'm under CPO warranty so I think I might be okay.
it's been at the dealer for over 4 weeks now and they've tried to thrown an oil pump at it too just like you did. Didn't work and they're trying to figure out what to do next. Already dropped my motor at least 2x by now. In addition just like your scenario they also drained the oil and found metal flakes too..
I'm under CPO warranty so I think I might be okay.
03-11-2018, 08:13 PM
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Seems pretty cut and dry to me if that’s the case.
I doubt they do any tear down and end up giving you a new engine.
This is is what my bearings looked like (the one with the rod was completely spinning and the rod is bent).
I found out that Porsche has revised the oil pump three times on this car (new part numbers) so am thinking this is a known issue...
unlike your scenario however I've never had an oil pressure light on. The time I drove my car to the dealer, the only weird thing for me was my oil temp gauge only going up half way and never warmed up strangely.
03-11-2018, 08:20 PM
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When you say intake manifold, which part are you referring to (gaskets, the whole thing, etc)?
My car only displayed low oil pressure when hot and at idle.
My car only displayed low oil pressure when hot and at idle.
yeah that's crazy! They've also had multiple part numbers or revisions on the cheap intake manifolds too. Another thing to possibly watch out for.
unlike your scenario however I've never had an oil pressure light on. The time I drove my car to the dealer, the only weird thing for me was my oil temp gauge only going up half way and never warmed up strangely.
unlike your scenario however I've never had an oil pressure light on. The time I drove my car to the dealer, the only weird thing for me was my oil temp gauge only going up half way and never warmed up strangely.
03-11-2018, 08:29 PM
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I mean the actual plastic intake manifold pieces themselves. There's 2 manifolds on our cars that connect to the plastic plenum. Manifolds sit on top of the intake valves of course.
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03-12-2018, 09:49 AM
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03-12-2018, 05:45 PM
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I don’t but when ordering just ask the parts guy to make sure.
I’m not sure when the first change happened but the second change happened recently, so assume all cars have the first or second version.
Knowing what I know now, I would have changed the solenoid and pump as preventative like people do coolant lines or IMS. It doesn’t give any warning as the failure is progressive and an engine is over $30,000.
It’s also easy to change.
I’m not sure when the first change happened but the second change happened recently, so assume all cars have the first or second version.
Knowing what I know now, I would have changed the solenoid and pump as preventative like people do coolant lines or IMS. It doesn’t give any warning as the failure is progressive and an engine is over $30,000.
It’s also easy to change.
04-20-2018, 06:11 PM
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It’s going back together!
Piece by piece ya going back together and every possible part that could be replaced is being done. Forged Carrillo rods, CP pistons, APR head studs, carr rod bolts, etc