ores

Hi folks,
Ran across this 2012 Turbo S near me.
https://circleporsche.com/inventory/...tallic+1473707

Would like to hear some thoughts on:
1. Depreciation in the next 3-5 years, especially as the 991 turbo S depreciates further. I drive 2-3K per year.
2. What would be a fair price? Car is mint and well specced and MSRP was 175K
3. For those who have one - is it involving to drive in comparison with a R8 V10 (2012), similar milage in manual? I know it is apples and oranges but both can be had for similar money so I am cross shopping these two...
Hoping to finally make a purchase this weekend so would love feedback yet again.
Thank you!

Big Swole

I drove a 2013 PDK TTS a week ago. 16K miles. ( could be had for $105K ish.

I found the PDK to be awesome. At least on test drive. I'm a manual guy like most but I'd even consider a PDK after that drive.

4ocious

$105K ish for a 2013 TTS with 16K miles - Where, I want to buy it NOW!

Macster

One way to judge depreciation is to price similar examples with bigger miles.

If you are going to add 2/3K miles per year why not seek out a car with more miles to begin with? This car will sell for less and depreciate less as you add miles. A few more miles above 6K is not that bad. A well maintained example even with 25K to say 35K miles would be a good choice and a heck of a lot less money. After say 5 years of 3K miles per year that's just another 15K miles so the car leaves your hands with 40K to 50K miles. Still not a lot of miles.

With proper servicing: annual oil/filter services, brake fluid flush/bleeds every 2 years; the car should be an attractive car for someone.

ores

Thanks for the response. I don't quite see the logic in your point. A car with more miles will cost me less and bring back less when I sell no? Also the certification of this particular car will save me money for 2 years.

Big Swole

lol I will PM you as soon as I decide I really can't / shouldn't try to afford it.!! lol

Steve 96C4S

Just offer them less, like $108k and get this car. It's SO NICE!!!! OMG, run down there tomorrow, or Monday, and just buy it. I would have bought this sight unseen. It's a brand new car, yet 6 years old.

This car makes the Audi look well... yeah, just get this car instead. It's timeless. I did the exact same thing, I spent more than I wanted to and now I'm so glad I did.

We could all be dead in a year, or 3 or 5 or 30. LIVE FOR TODAY, MAN! It's striking. I bet you'll never see another one like it with those black wheels.

And to clarify, you REALLY wanted a black car, right? I only wanted a silver car. Get this one, unless you don't want a black car.

Or not, and get the Audi. I sure wouldn't. They're hot looking but a bit odd.

ores

Wow you are very passionate about the 991TTS! I like black a lot. DOn't care for any other color except white or grey and possibly blue on some cars. The TTS looks good in black. I just saw a white R8 v10 on my way home. It is so striking it looks like a supercar. The 911 blends in especially in LA. The question is which one will keep value stronger. On the one hand, I see 996 turbo s examples asking on the high 70s and 80s which is simply nuts (low mileage garage queens) so that is a good indication the 997 TTS will hold strong. On the other hand, the R10 1st gen, especially in manual, might become a future classic. It's the last of the manuals for the R8. It is a first of its kind for Audi (first supercar attempt) so it symbolizes something for the brand + there is the connection the the Lambo so it could turn out like the 1st gen NSX (a sought after collector's car). However, it might not.... Porsche has a cult like following and that is never going away.
Porsche is a much more cohesive brand than Audi. Audi's R8 is not in tune with any of their other models but it's a very respectable attempt at a supercar. The interior is not that impressive. The gated manual is... kind of annoying actually at times. But the car drives amazingly well and sounds great.

Steve 96C4S

Yep, in the end, it's all up to personal taste. After driving them both for 45 minutes each, you'll know exactly what to do. We can all throw in our 2 cents and we will, but only you can decide which you like better. No one has a crystal ball and everyone can debate which will hold up better in pricing over the few years, but no one really knows in the end.

And I'm sure you don't want to live with a new car based on it's future potential value. You have to LOVE one more than another.

Just my 2 cents. We could all be gone into a black hole in 3 years... which one do you want to drive until then, regardless of what it may or may not be worth in the end?

ores

Yes, black hole will be bad...
The thing is the Audi is on the other side of the country. I had a PPIt done but I never drove it. I drove another one and like it. It's a special car, but flawed. The seats are kind of pathetic for this type of car, and the interior looks a little cheap to me and it's clearly Audi parts. After you test drive Astons, Mclarns, etc., Audi isn't exactly exclusive feeling. but the exterior is stunning. However, nothing beats a 911 in terms of well roundedness.

Big Swole

Steve, you should be a Porsche sales person!! lol

You have me wanting to figure a way to get that 2013 TTS again man!!! lol

ores

Can anyone chime in on the predicted depreciation of the 2012 TTS? hold or still drop a fair amount in 3-5 years?

Macster

My point is a lower priced car has less value to lose to depreciation. You buy the higher mileage car for less to begin with. Sure it sells for less when you go to sell it but the difference -- depreciation -- is or should be less than if you bought a low miles example and added miles to it then sold the car.

(Depreciation is not be to sneezed at. Bought a used 2003 Turbo in 2009 with just 10K miles and paid less than half its retail cost ($120K) for it. No way the original owner got even 50% of the car's retail cost in a trade in allowance. Thus my estimate is the original owner paid about $6/mile in deprecation for each one of those 10,000 miles he drove the car.)

A CPO warranty does add a new wrinkle to this though.

When I was looking at the 2003 Turbo I liked the fact it came with a 2 year/100K mile warranty. Since at just 10K miles the car was still *new* I worried a bit about the low miles and "new" car problems.

My worry proved to be valid. I won't bore you with the list of things that went wrong and were fixed under the CPO warranty but the CPO warranty was much appreciated. (If only it would have covered all the issues that the developed after the warranty expired on time but with nearly another 40K miles added.)

OTOH, a car with higher mileage would have, could have these "new" car issues already sorted. Really had the original owner of my Turbo used the car more than 1600 miles/year the issues I experienced would have been dealt with while the car was under the new car warranty. And the issues I dealt with *after* the car was out of warranyt might not have happened as I believe the majority of the issues were due to lack of use for the 6 years of the car's life.

ores

A clean 2012 Turbo S with 25K miles just sold on Mannheim for 88K. Don't know if it was loaded or not. It's fair to say that same car with 8K miles will fetch closer to 100K. Add certification, new tires and service and you are at 105K. 110K is a reasonable price I think. Your analogy with your 2003 may have worked in 2009 when the 996 was not at all desirable. There is just no way I can find a clean low miles TTS 2012 for 50% of 170K...

Macster

Not saying you can find a 2012 Turbo for 50% of its sticker price. I was just using a real experience to highlight how depreciation can be the biggest expense to owning a car.

But the 2012 Turbo S with 25K miles for $88K vs. a similar car with just 8K miles for an estimated $110K (using your number) makes my point.

The low miles car after some few years of ownership and the addition of some miles on the odometer will have the car at say 25K miles. Assuming the depreciation curve remains the same that $110K car is now worth $88K. Those 17K added miles cost will have cost you approx. $1.30/mile.

OTOH, the $88K car starting with 25K miles will have 42K miles on it after the same span of time and driving. With 42K miles that's still a low miles car -- still below the 50K miles mark -- and while it will sell for less than the $88K you paid for it, will it sell for $22K less?

What do similar cars with say 50K or slightly fewer miles sell for now? If the drop in price is around $22K then the low miles car vs. the higher miles car is a wash. Buy the low miles example for that $110K amount and a couple of years later with 25K miles on it sell it for $88K or thereabouts.