Dguth

Good morning everyone,

I thought I'd start a fresh thread documenting the current build. For those that remember my previous thread, mine was the one that after installing a few mods had the dreaded camshaft error (spun sleeve). I was faced with a decision to just fix/pin the cams or go for a complete engine build making the car stronger and faster.


Well, my decision was to make it stronger and faster. Huge thanks to Sam at By Design who's been instrumental in pulling all of this together! Can't say enough about his support & advice, quick response and ability to move this along at a pretty fast pace.


Our overall goal for the build was to get around 900hp & 900 torque, maintain daily drivability, have power come in early & broad across the RPM range and keep power within tolerance not to damage transmission and suspension components.


First about the car, it's a 2007 Porsche 997.1, manual with about 25k miles. Great condition and has from the factory the full Techart package. Including pictures above. We decided to have Jon Bray rebuild the motor and go ahead an build it into a forged 3.8L. I'm attaching below a list of the engine modification along with upgraded/added bolt ons.


Should be one of a kind vehicle and something I'll keep for a long time! Engine rebuild is complete, it's back at Sam's shop and I'll be posting updates and pictures along the way including dyno charts once available.


Engine

By Design/EVOSpec 1200hp Capable 3.8 Stage 2+ build


- Full R&R and replacement of all wear items
- Cam Pinning
- Forged 3.8 With ring pak, Spec skirt and Coatings large pin
- Darton sleeves
- Case machine and final Cyl hone
- CP Forged Pistons
- Spec Carillo H Beam Rods
- Stage 2+ CNC Heads
- Inconel valves and Spec seats
- Ti valve springs and hardware for 8000 rpm
- Spec Intake and Exhaust cams
- Spec Crank finish/balance
- Spec 12mm head stud kit
- Spec custom head gaskets
- Spec bearing upgrade


Bolt-Ons

By Design Stage 4+

- By Design/TiAL 68mm+ GT2 turbochargers
- By Design 4.5 inch intercoolers 2.5 in/out
- Silicone boost hose Kit
- Silicone Turbo inlet pipes
- Billet Forge DV's
- BMC Filter
- IPD 82mm Plenum and GT3 Throttle body
- IPD Y-Pipe
- Kline Equal Length Headers
- By Design/Kline 76/70mm Race/Street exhaust
- Denso Plugs Gap .025
- 2nd Gen factory coils
- ID1300 Fuel Injectors
- Cobb AP
- Custom Dyno tuning
- SRE Sport Clutch
- New Dual Mass Flywheel
- DSC suspension module
- TS rear toe links

Catorce

Nice,

I've got the John Bray stuff sitting here right now, same engine stuff as you have delivered very recently. I decided against going with Sam in the end, but the basic hardware is the same. I have 2 builds happening before that one so the stuff is still boxed, but I can tell you from looking at all of John's stuff that it is really, really nice stuff.

The only deviation is I went with CP Pistons, Carillo rods, and a GT3 crank.

Can't wait to build my motor. I am doing it myself.

Dguth

Congrats on the upcoming build! There no way I have the aptitude to do this myself. Will keep everyone updated on how this goes...

Dguth

Just checked with Sam, I have the CP forged pistons and Carillo rods as well.

Catorce

I knew you had the CP / Carillo bits as well, that is all that John Bray supplies, and they are the best.

My rods are different than yours because they are sized for the GT3 crank journals on the big end and the 997 piston on the small end. The GT3 has wider journals and is a much stronger crank than the 997 crank.

To be honest I am not sure why I went with the GT3 crank because it is more money and the rods took 6 weeks to be made because they are custom. It is a higher RPM and stronger crank but I am just not turning the boost up that high. I only want 800rwhp max, not looking to get stupid here.

There is a definite advantage to using the GT3 crank, but not at my power level. Our builds will more or less be the same.

Oh well.

TB993tt

You may be able to spin a dyno up to show 900WHP in a 6 second run but VTGs are good for about 750 FWHP measured at full load, limited by the hotside.

Car looks lovely BTW and a nice engine build spec, great conviction

kahane18

Did all that cost more than the car itself? Not trying to be a Smart A.. just want to know the approximate cost of all that work

Thanks

SamboTT@ByDesign

We are already starting to assemble everything my friend! I'm really excited to get the car on the road very soon for you!

To answer some questions gentlemen…We are shooting for 900+ crank horsepower. My goal will be 800 to the wheels with good exhaust gas temperature control through head and turbine spec., high flow exhaust components and Ethanol fuel. We have done this already several times and we have lots of extensive experience with these turbo chargers on the 997–991. We've been able to get over 730 hp to the wheels for many daily drivable cars on stock engines all across the world many of which have posted and are members here. Then we started testing with larger GT2 turbine housing's and high flow engine builds using specific components to help us achieve our goals. Turbo chargers are special specification from TiAL Sport and we have the fastest 991 in the country as well as the world running VTG turbochargers of the same set up. 819 to the wheels competing in half mile and a quarter mile events. We also ran the set up on the Pike's Peak international Hill climb car driven by factory Porsche driver David Donahue a couple of months ago. It's pretty extensively tested and backed up.

As for cost that's an interesting point. As with any vehicle there are different levels of modification. It's all about having a good time. Being the last of the 6 speed turbo Porsche is for now we have seen some people spend over $100,000 on the drivetrain alone. People of been upgrading their engines on the 997 since it came out so it's just one of those to each his own things. So many levels of upgrade. Several even above this. Definitely a good time if you can afford it!

Catorce

The answer is, it depends. Figure about 20K for the turbo stuff, and about 15K for the engine stuff, not including labor.

My build is the same as Dguth's except for the crank and I am using non-VTG turbos, but installing all of it myself.

I have done this many times before.

As Sam stated the cost is a little irrelevant. If you want a world beating 6 speed 997TT, that is what it will take. You either want that, or you don't want it.

Dguth

Thanks Sam and Cat for the comments! As far as the question on cost, that's always subjective and Cat is pretty spot on with the general cost assumptions not including labor. As with any build, you generally start with "I just want X done" but ultimately as you get into it along with the friendly counseling of Sam, it turns into, let's go ahead and do Y and Z while we are at it. We've been able to control my budget amount on this pretty well with little scope creep. It is certainly not cheap but also not as expensive as you maybe thinking (heck some people spend thousands of dollars on wheels) with little performance gain. I think at the end of this, I'll have a one of a kind Porsche 997, irreplaceable in my mind and should be able to compete effectively with any super car on the road today.

Catorce

You go man! Gonna be an awesome ride, can't wait to see it.

SamboTT@ByDesign

Hey bud, keep in touch and let me know if I can help with anything!

IMI A

Worth reading Toby's thread OP. Yours is the new ultimate VTG build. You will be running E85 so should get around quite a few of the issues Toby experienced. Also 10 years on there is quite bit more knowledge base about VTG limits and how best to tune them.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...g-engines.html

powdrhound

While the RSR crank will not necessarily provide a huge benefit for a street use engine and those with occasional high power blasts, it does provide benefits in my opinion and is worth the cost which is trivial in the scheme of a full engine build. Is it necessary? No. Nice to have? Yes.

On the other hand, for a heavy track use engine or a purpose built race motor that spends a majority of it's life at high rpms, it's a must in my opinion. When my shop built my 3.8 they insisted on using an RSR crank which has wider but smaller diameter journals compared to the stock TT crank. The smaller diameter of the journal slows the speed between the crank and rod. The RSR crank also has twice the oiling capability vs the TT crank (every 180º vs 360º) and is designed for 9000rpm use in Porsches race cars. My engine sees extended high RPM use (7500-7600 but I've seen 7800 on data) with repeated redline shifts for 30 minutes at a time. The RSR crank is also 2 lbs. lighter than the TT crank and it's always a plus if you can reduce rotational mass. For me, using the better crank was a no brainer for long term longevity and piece of mind.

Another benefit of the RSR crank is the fact that you do not have to clearance the oil pump for use with Carillo rods. Coupled with a lightweight Cup pulley and a factory LWFW, the engine response it taken to another level. Porsche is not stupid. There is a reason all their race motors utilize these cranks even though the engines are relatively modest 450-500hp applications...You should be very happy that the upgraded crank was used in your build...

To the OP, great looking car and congrats on the build. Enjoy it safely!

Catorce

Powderhound,

I haven't built my motor yet (I am the builder), I have two builds in front of it. Dguth will have his built first. I chose the GT3 crank because it is my MO to plan for future power increases that never come. As an example, the Camaro in my sig has a 1400hp capable blower but I am only putting out 850whp.

I tend to do this all the time, in basically every Porsche build. My point was I don't think it's really necessary....but I can't usually stop myself from doing it.

My 997TT build used Tial Xona 3073 and the whole setup will be well over 1100hp capable but I will probably put out less whp that Dguth on purpose.

I like to build 'em strong and run 'em light. They last long that way.

Oh, and the Camaro has 25,000 miles at 850whp. No problems.....

Thanks for the input, love the specs on your car.