997.1 TT 2008 vs 997.2 C2S 2009
05-24-2019, 01:27 AM
#46
Intermediate
Good to know - I was just not expecting the stock 997.2 TT to have a smoother ride than my 997.2 PASM C2S - That was a "shock" (no pun intended). I was fully expecting it to be equally as stiff.
Is that really how it is with the 997.2 TT, or did the car I happened to drive simply have a softer suspension? (The car salesmen went into a speech about how when you get the top model Porsche it is all smoother, blah, blah, blah. If that is the case, I'd want to look at aftermarket. I stopped being an M3 guy when the M3 drove more like the 5 series, bigger and softer)
Is that really how it is with the 997.2 TT, or did the car I happened to drive simply have a softer suspension? (The car salesmen went into a speech about how when you get the top model Porsche it is all smoother, blah, blah, blah. If that is the case, I'd want to look at aftermarket. I stopped being an M3 guy when the M3 drove more like the 5 series, bigger and softer)
Hi Grasshopper - the stock suspension on the 997 generation Turbo is not ideal, a good suspension setup will completely transform the handling of the car. There are lots of good options, I went with Sharkwerks (who have a proven reputation) and am super thrilled with the results.
05-24-2019, 05:11 PM
#47
Pro
My stock suspension was too soft and floaty on the non-sport setting, and too harsh and jolty on the sport setting. I think an aftermarket suspension is well worth the expense because you can really find the perfect setup that suits you - you'll need to work with one of the suspension experts to achieve that I think, but it's well worth the effort.
07-09-2019, 04:06 PM
#49
From other owners who have had both M3's/p-cars, my impression is that in terms of power performance, its more of a lateral move if you are moving from E46 M3, downward move if you are moving from E9x M3. To truly upgrade you need to go TT. Hopefully others can chime in on the sentiment!
07-13-2019, 09:26 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
...So I found a 997.2 TT Cabriolet 70 miles away. I played a little hooky from work to go and give it a spin.
First impressions:
First impressions:
- Suspension: I was surprised that the TT's suspension felt "softer" than that of my 997.2 C2S... It actually caught me off guard. When driving even in sport mode, I'd say the TT ride was much smoother than the rattle your teeth sensation I feel with PASM in sport mode with the C2S. I could get used to this, but I actually prefer the firmer tighter feeling of my C2S. The salesmen said that this is what happens when you move up the food chain with the P car to the Turbo. Is that true by the way (or did I just drive a particularly "soft" turbo car as far as suspension is concerned)? I suppose I was expecting the TT to feel at least as firm as my C2S.
- Speed: Holy &@#$! the Turbo is WAY faster - - -A completely different power delivery than my C2S. I came away in awe of the power, but missing the linear nature of the NA motor. All 4 tires screaming and hopping is NUTS though - - - an engineering marvel
- Sound: No offense intended here, but I did not love the sound. I've heard it described as an angry vacuum and that pretty much sums it up for me. Sure I can get exhaust and intake etc, to address the sound. For me, I suppose I am looking for a car that is more of an "event" to drive. I am learning that at least for me, I care more about the visceral presentation than the literal speed. I'd rather perceive speed than travel it if that makes sense. "Hearing" the twin turbos whoosh and scream with all the air pressure blowing around was cool...just not at all what I am looking for. I strongly prefer the sound of the NA cars, the C2S included.
The Cabrio has different suspension tuning then the coupe, its a bit softer. I find when I put the PASM in sport it firms up considerably, almost too harsh, which makes standard mode a bit too soft and sport a bit too firm. I see a DSC controller in my future, although for cruising around standard mode is super comfortable and handles just fine if you aren't wailing on it.
I agree on the sound, I put on a Speedtech exhaust then had Kevin at UMW do a tune for me. Now my car is a real supercar and can hang with almost anything out there. I wouldn't want any more power, for me its scary at times.
From other owners who have had both M3's/p-cars, my impression is that in terms of power performance, its more of a lateral move if you are moving from E46 M3, downward move if you are moving from E9x M3. To truly upgrade you need to go TT. Hopefully others can chime in on the sentiment!
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bchsiao (07-13-2019)
07-13-2019, 11:15 PM
#52
The Cabrio has different suspension tuning then the coupe, its a bit softer. I find when I put the PASM in sport it firms up considerably, almost too harsh, which makes standard mode a bit too soft and sport a bit too firm. I see a DSC controller in my future, although for cruising around standard mode is super comfortable and handles just fine if you aren't wailing on it.
.
Why do they not tell you this in the brochure!
Interestingly I find the PASM harsh on the Cabrio as well, almost to the point I'd prefer just a C2 vs a C2S.
07-14-2019, 12:04 AM
#53
Intermediate
This is not my experience at all---
I had the E46 M3 and LOVED that car. Driving the E9X back to back with my E46, I preferred the E46 in every way in terms of driving feel. Although the E9X is "technically" better, and faster, it actually feels slower and softer. Way less visceral.
Fast forward to this year, when I got my P car (C2S Cabriolet 997.2). I was "back in the market" and tried to love the E93 M3. I drove 3 different ones, and just couldn't figure out why I didn't love them. I drove a nice M4 and felt numb. I was about to give up and drown my 1st world sorrows. I couldn't believe that 420 HP+ didn't feel like enough (I'm in Colorado, so perhaps they would be better at sea level...but of course the P-car would be better too by the same margin at sea level as well).
When I test drove my 2011 C2S cabriolet it totally snapped into perspective. It drives lightyears ahead of the E9X M3, and is better than the E46 all day long. 997.2 C2S vs E9X M3 is NO CONTEST and is not lateral. P Car is a better driver's car. If the E9X is technically in the same ballpark on paper, it delivers a much inferior driver's experience. M cars with each passing generation are becoming luxury grand touring cars. The latest offerings are closer to the 5 series of yesteryear.
I also believe the M3 peaked at the E46. They continue to be a very aesthetically pleasing car, but each generation is getting faster, but softer and more boring IMHO---
Certainly a TT would walk all over either of these, but I could see someone moving from the E9X to the C2S and feeling like it was an "upgrade" - -
I had the E46 M3 and LOVED that car. Driving the E9X back to back with my E46, I preferred the E46 in every way in terms of driving feel. Although the E9X is "technically" better, and faster, it actually feels slower and softer. Way less visceral.
Fast forward to this year, when I got my P car (C2S Cabriolet 997.2). I was "back in the market" and tried to love the E93 M3. I drove 3 different ones, and just couldn't figure out why I didn't love them. I drove a nice M4 and felt numb. I was about to give up and drown my 1st world sorrows. I couldn't believe that 420 HP+ didn't feel like enough (I'm in Colorado, so perhaps they would be better at sea level...but of course the P-car would be better too by the same margin at sea level as well).
When I test drove my 2011 C2S cabriolet it totally snapped into perspective. It drives lightyears ahead of the E9X M3, and is better than the E46 all day long. 997.2 C2S vs E9X M3 is NO CONTEST and is not lateral. P Car is a better driver's car. If the E9X is technically in the same ballpark on paper, it delivers a much inferior driver's experience. M cars with each passing generation are becoming luxury grand touring cars. The latest offerings are closer to the 5 series of yesteryear.
I also believe the M3 peaked at the E46. They continue to be a very aesthetically pleasing car, but each generation is getting faster, but softer and more boring IMHO---
Certainly a TT would walk all over either of these, but I could see someone moving from the E9X to the C2S and feeling like it was an "upgrade" - -
From other owners who have had both M3's/p-cars, my impression is that in terms of power performance, its more of a lateral move if you are moving from E46 M3, downward move if you are moving from E9x M3. To truly upgrade you need to go TT. Hopefully others can chime in on the sentiment!
07-14-2019, 12:13 AM
#54
Intermediate
Thanks for your reply -
Is the Cabrio suspension in the TT softer than the Cabrio C2S?
Where I was surprised, was driving my 2011 C2S Cab to the dealer to test drive the 2011 TT Cab and feel like the TT suspension was significantly softer than my C2S Cab. As they were both cabs, driving the cars back to back I was not expecting the Turbo to be softer in all modes. PASM at sport in the TT was like my PASM in normal....(if anything, I expected the TT Cab to drive more firmly than my C2S Cab)
Is this the way it is, or perhaps did I drive a TT that had issues?
The Cabrio has different suspension tuning then the coupe, its a bit softer. I find when I put the PASM in sport it firms up considerably, almost too harsh, which makes standard mode a bit too soft and sport a bit too firm. I see a DSC controller in my future, although for cruising around standard mode is super comfortable and handles just fine if you aren't wailing on it.
I agree on the sound, I put on a Speedtech exhaust then had Kevin at UMW do a tune for me. Now my car is a real supercar and can hang with almost anything out there. I wouldn't want any more power, for me its scary at times.
I had a E90 M3 manual for a while. It was a beast, with the stability control off it could get away from you so fast with that quick revving V8. Traded it in at a dealer and the new owner wrote it off in a few months! I agree with above, to step up from a E90 M3 you need a turbo.
Is the Cabrio suspension in the TT softer than the Cabrio C2S?
Where I was surprised, was driving my 2011 C2S Cab to the dealer to test drive the 2011 TT Cab and feel like the TT suspension was significantly softer than my C2S Cab. As they were both cabs, driving the cars back to back I was not expecting the Turbo to be softer in all modes. PASM at sport in the TT was like my PASM in normal....(if anything, I expected the TT Cab to drive more firmly than my C2S Cab)
Is this the way it is, or perhaps did I drive a TT that had issues?
The Cabrio has different suspension tuning then the coupe, its a bit softer. I find when I put the PASM in sport it firms up considerably, almost too harsh, which makes standard mode a bit too soft and sport a bit too firm. I see a DSC controller in my future, although for cruising around standard mode is super comfortable and handles just fine if you aren't wailing on it.
I agree on the sound, I put on a Speedtech exhaust then had Kevin at UMW do a tune for me. Now my car is a real supercar and can hang with almost anything out there. I wouldn't want any more power, for me its scary at times.
I had a E90 M3 manual for a while. It was a beast, with the stability control off it could get away from you so fast with that quick revving V8. Traded it in at a dealer and the new owner wrote it off in a few months! I agree with above, to step up from a E90 M3 you need a turbo.
09-29-2021, 06:16 PM
#55
Intermediate
I wanted to revive this old thread, as my journey has taken a few turns since I sold my 997.2 C2S.
I found a super low miles, super clean 2008 Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder with a gated manual. I love this car. It is super raw and analogue, and makes awesome noises. I've had that car for coming up on 2 years.
I still couldn't shake the "go cart" feel of my 911. Last week we added a 2011 997.2 Turbo S convertible to the stable. The TTS has 29,000 miles, and is every bit as tight as my C2s was...but runs like a ballistic missile. The lambo feels slow by comparison.
We spent a lot of time considering the 991.1 TTS, but kept coming back to the Go-Cart sensation that the 997.2 chassis offers. I realize that I just haven't seen very good examples of the 997.2 TTS cars before. When we found one that felt tight and new, we knew it was the one!
In my humble opinion the 997.2 TTS is the PERFECT sports car. As all cars are going the way of the GT car, I don't think they'll make them like the 997.2 again. I don't need the comforts, as I love the rowdy nature of sports cars. I think this is a keeper-
We still love our Lambo, but it is the P-car keys I reach for more these days---
I found a super low miles, super clean 2008 Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder with a gated manual. I love this car. It is super raw and analogue, and makes awesome noises. I've had that car for coming up on 2 years.
I still couldn't shake the "go cart" feel of my 911. Last week we added a 2011 997.2 Turbo S convertible to the stable. The TTS has 29,000 miles, and is every bit as tight as my C2s was...but runs like a ballistic missile. The lambo feels slow by comparison.
We spent a lot of time considering the 991.1 TTS, but kept coming back to the Go-Cart sensation that the 997.2 chassis offers. I realize that I just haven't seen very good examples of the 997.2 TTS cars before. When we found one that felt tight and new, we knew it was the one!
In my humble opinion the 997.2 TTS is the PERFECT sports car. As all cars are going the way of the GT car, I don't think they'll make them like the 997.2 again. I don't need the comforts, as I love the rowdy nature of sports cars. I think this is a keeper-
We still love our Lambo, but it is the P-car keys I reach for more these days---
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PowderJunkie (09-30-2021)
09-29-2021, 06:26 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
PGrasshopper..... beautiful, just beautiful. I love your post. Your post is making it hard for me ... well, to wait for and still get the new car I've set my sights on. Congrats to you....
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PGrasshopper (09-29-2021)