Skill vs. Tire
04-28-2017, 11:50 PM
#31
GT3 player par excellence
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sticker DH is like hand of god. they degrade quickly. by HC3 not so nice. still good but not like glue.
=======================
separately,
crazykid can drive. dont doubt that.
slick vs r comp vs street.
everyone has their opinion.
here is mine
if you are newbie, slick is wrong just wrong. like shoving food into your ears trying to eat it... just wrong end of discussion.
if you are advanced. then you choose if you want slick or not. ppl are so fascinated with speed and lap time. sometimes it's feel. if it feels good makes you happy go for it. i never tell my friends to quit hard drugs. as long as they are happy and dont OD in my house, hey go for it.
i dont race bike more
too slow too old too heavy
but i ride on tubular. they just FEEL different.
that is not to say street tires are bad. just pick what you want and burn your own money.
04-29-2017, 02:04 AM
#32
Drifting
Drugs are cheaper and last all day, yes 2.2k. The biggest difference that i noticed, granted i was driving on a track that i was not 100% familiar (buttonwillow). The ability of getting on the throttle harder/quicker and getting on the brakes harder and later w/ the ability of transitioning the car horizontal load very composed w/ out fighting the car. You have to try it once.
Ngng, you mentioned rain. I do live up to my username.
This is me, on hoho's, dry tires. I invited a friend for a drive, he knows "crazydriver" and he felt comfortable in going out in the rain w/ hoho's dry tires. I tested the limit on a few turns to find how hard i can push w/ him in the car(let go of steering wheel at one to illustrate not to death grip steering wheel and let the car dance in the rain), after that it was a Sunday cruise chatting about "stuff"(hence i muted)/ listening to radio. Why did i take hoho' drys ? Well it was suppose to be dry as you can see in 2nd video..... rain is fun.
Drying out. rain.
Ngng, you mentioned rain. I do live up to my username.
This is me, on hoho's, dry tires. I invited a friend for a drive, he knows "crazydriver" and he felt comfortable in going out in the rain w/ hoho's dry tires. I tested the limit on a few turns to find how hard i can push w/ him in the car(let go of steering wheel at one to illustrate not to death grip steering wheel and let the car dance in the rain), after that it was a Sunday cruise chatting about "stuff"(hence i muted)/ listening to radio. Why did i take hoho' drys ? Well it was suppose to be dry as you can see in 2nd video..... rain is fun.
Drying out. rain.
it actually hailed at laguna earlier in the year at a bmw event. lots of people caught off guard. i had a blast though, made for some good photos
04-29-2017, 01:16 PM
#33
Drifting
scurb DH so so
sticker DH is like hand of god. they degrade quickly. by HC3 not so nice. still good but not like glue.
=======================
separately,
crazykid can drive. dont doubt that.
slick vs r comp vs street.
everyone has their opinion.
here is mine
if you are newbie, slick is wrong just wrong. like shoving food into your ears trying to eat it... just wrong end of discussion.
if you are advanced. then you choose if you want slick or not. ppl are so fascinated with speed and lap time. sometimes it's feel. if it feels good makes you happy go for it. i never tell my friends to quit hard drugs. as long as they are happy and dont OD in my house, hey go for it.
i dont race bike more
too slow too old too heavy
but i ride on tubular. they just FEEL different.
that is not to say street tires are bad. just pick what you want and burn your own money.
sticker DH is like hand of god. they degrade quickly. by HC3 not so nice. still good but not like glue.
=======================
separately,
crazykid can drive. dont doubt that.
slick vs r comp vs street.
everyone has their opinion.
here is mine
if you are newbie, slick is wrong just wrong. like shoving food into your ears trying to eat it... just wrong end of discussion.
if you are advanced. then you choose if you want slick or not. ppl are so fascinated with speed and lap time. sometimes it's feel. if it feels good makes you happy go for it. i never tell my friends to quit hard drugs. as long as they are happy and dont OD in my house, hey go for it.
i dont race bike more
too slow too old too heavy
but i ride on tubular. they just FEEL different.
that is not to say street tires are bad. just pick what you want and burn your own money.
04-29-2017, 08:34 PM
#34
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
^ do not try. it's habit forming.
05-02-2017, 11:55 AM
#35
Nordschleife Master
Slick grip drastically increases wear on your suspension....you will need to start timing out parts / pieces like a cup car or quicker (GT3 is heavy pig)
If you are not really good at heel / toe any miss in timing will become gearbox / engine wear opposed to tire slip.
I do not see the point of running them on a street car
If you are not really good at heel / toe any miss in timing will become gearbox / engine wear opposed to tire slip.
I do not see the point of running them on a street car
05-02-2017, 01:52 PM
#36
Drifting
Slick grip drastically increases wear on your suspension....you will need to start timing out parts / pieces like a cup car or quicker (GT3 is heavy pig)
If you are not really good at heel / toe any miss in timing will become gearbox / engine wear opposed to tire slip.
I do not see the point of running them on a street car
If you are not really good at heel / toe any miss in timing will become gearbox / engine wear opposed to tire slip.
I do not see the point of running them on a street car
How many people have actually broken suspension pieces from running slicks on their street GT3, I can think of maybe 2 cases tops and it was a LOT of hours on slicks not 20 hours. Also racing is different than doing laps at a HPDE or TT and puts more stress on the car.
05-02-2017, 06:24 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower
They are much grippier and make the car much faster and easier to drive? Why not just run all seasons, they wear the best and put even less stress on your suspension components than R comps and RE71. If you can't properly heel toe downshift you shouldn't be tracking a GT3.
How many people have actually broken suspension pieces from running slicks on their street GT3, I can think of maybe 2 cases tops and it was a LOT of hours on slicks not 20 hours. Also racing is different than doing laps at a HPDE or TT and puts more stress on the car.
How many people have actually broken suspension pieces from running slicks on their street GT3, I can think of maybe 2 cases tops and it was a LOT of hours on slicks not 20 hours. Also racing is different than doing laps at a HPDE or TT and puts more stress on the car.
If you are full bore you are full bore
Control arms are what 50hr parts?
05-02-2017, 06:26 PM
#38
They are much grippier and make the car much faster and easier to drive? Why not just run all seasons, they wear the best and put even less stress on your suspension components than R comps and RE71. If you can't properly heel toe downshift you shouldn't be tracking a GT3.
How many people have actually broken suspension pieces from running slicks on their street GT3, I can think of maybe 2 cases tops and it was a LOT of hours on slicks not 20 hours. Also racing is different than doing laps at a HPDE or TT and puts more stress on the car.
How many people have actually broken suspension pieces from running slicks on their street GT3, I can think of maybe 2 cases tops and it was a LOT of hours on slicks not 20 hours. Also racing is different than doing laps at a HPDE or TT and puts more stress on the car.
05-02-2017, 10:35 PM
#39
Banned
Some are tongue and cheek in here, but back in karting you would opt for tires of lesser grip (or worn ones) and murder those appex's. If you wanted a challenge, you'd switch some good with bad and find out which corner it was and make the best of it (i.e. consider advantages in entry/exit and which apexs could be pushed without disturbing equilibrium too much). Consistency and control is the game. Sure, you can spin out if it's open track and trial/error. But after a while, the group you're with may give the boot due to a lack of control. Worse yet, you catch one of em' in the process......As such, run a 200TW and have fun learning slip angle/grip. Until you know that point, you're wasting YOUR time/money. I'd start simple and ask why you're at the track. Is it to shoot the barrel with mates? Is it to learn how to improve? Is it get the fastest time?
Don't fool yourself nor the mates you're running alongside in 6 figure cars....
Don't fool yourself nor the mates you're running alongside in 6 figure cars....
05-03-2017, 09:19 AM
#40
Race Car
Because they can't stand up to the heat of driving near the limit and will chunk and come apart when driven in that capacity.
r-compounds like Nitto's are the perfect compromise of something that's durable and will stand up to the heat and still act like a street tire giving you the ability to maximize your skill set and car control at a lower limit point than slicks.
Disclaimer...I take both NT-01's and DH's to every track day I attend. I learn WAY more on the Nitto's, I have much more fun on the Nitto's and there's generally many more cars to run around when I'm running the Nitto's.
I only mount the DH's if there's cup cars or the like that I want to chase and potentially learn from.
When I started running slicks, within 3 events I had cracked wheels, broken an axle and had hub / bearing wear that required replacing nearly everything in the rear suspension of the car as a safety precaution. It absolutely accelerates wear on suspension components.
r-compounds like Nitto's are the perfect compromise of something that's durable and will stand up to the heat and still act like a street tire giving you the ability to maximize your skill set and car control at a lower limit point than slicks.
Disclaimer...I take both NT-01's and DH's to every track day I attend. I learn WAY more on the Nitto's, I have much more fun on the Nitto's and there's generally many more cars to run around when I'm running the Nitto's.
I only mount the DH's if there's cup cars or the like that I want to chase and potentially learn from.
When I started running slicks, within 3 events I had cracked wheels, broken an axle and had hub / bearing wear that required replacing nearly everything in the rear suspension of the car as a safety precaution. It absolutely accelerates wear on suspension components.
05-03-2017, 12:31 PM
#41
Drifting
I've broken multiple hubs, gearbox output shafts, and blew up an LSD on my 996 even on NTO1s. With slicks everything is abused that much more. Granted I'm putting 600 to the wheels but its no secret that with more grip everything will be subjected to greater stress. I've upgraded all the control arms to factory RSR stuff to beef it up but still keep track of time on all the key components..
I've run 15+ days on used scrub slicks and stock suspension and not broken any suspension, wheels, hubs. The worst thing that's happened is a rear sway bar end link got a little loose and I just tightened it back up. If you run brand new sticker scrubs and beat the **** out of the car I can see breaking parts.
The only thing I learned on NT01's is that they get greasy and the sidewalls feel like marshmallows. If you add more air to stiffen the sidewall they get greasy even faster. They also didn't last as long as many here claim (I got about 12 sessions vs 40-50 that some people say). With street tires advancing you might as well run RE-71R or Rival S.
05-03-2017, 12:39 PM
#42
Drifting
Theoretically in a HPDE setting you're not supposed to be driving 10/10ths. But even for the fastest HPDE run group (red) most GT3's are faster than a lot of cars and half the time you're in traffic waiting for a point driving behind slower cars at 7/10th's so yes it's different than W2W sprint racing. If you can run full bore for a full 20-25 min HPDE session without being held up or holding anyone up more power to you.
05-03-2017, 02:17 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Out here our open days and red groups are not terribly different than sprint races... Open passing, driving at your limit, and lots of dicing with the buddies. Yeah, not racing 100% for sure, but car stress... I think not too far off.
05-03-2017, 03:20 PM
#44
Drifting
IMO
I think the wear we're talking about is driver dependent on how you're driving. Scrub slicks are no better then NT01's, we should point that out first. Therefore that "extra" grip is not there. New Sicks, yes.
Second, it depends how hard you're pushing and how the driver is getting that 100% out of the car. Correct me if i'm wrong, Matt, when i have seen you drive your race cars, your goal is to extract every gram of performance and tenth of a lap time. You use every rev, kerb, last mm of braking zone etc. You're on R comp's if i recall correctly. You do one of a hell of a job getting every .0001th out of your car, massive kudos.
While you have someone like myself, that avoids the kerbs, rev only 90% of the motor, i dont throw the car into a turn in a "abusive" manner, i don't rush my shifts to abrupt power train. In my 996t, i did over 40 track days w/ minimal wear. Those whom have ridden with me can vouch i'm smooth and to me going to a DE event is my Sunday cruise down PCH. If I want to extract a PB, then yes i'll get on it and abusive the car like a race car should be abuse, however i rarely do that. Maybe 2 laps a DE event.
I think the wear we're talking about is driver dependent on how you're driving. Scrub slicks are no better then NT01's, we should point that out first. Therefore that "extra" grip is not there. New Sicks, yes.
Second, it depends how hard you're pushing and how the driver is getting that 100% out of the car. Correct me if i'm wrong, Matt, when i have seen you drive your race cars, your goal is to extract every gram of performance and tenth of a lap time. You use every rev, kerb, last mm of braking zone etc. You're on R comp's if i recall correctly. You do one of a hell of a job getting every .0001th out of your car, massive kudos.
While you have someone like myself, that avoids the kerbs, rev only 90% of the motor, i dont throw the car into a turn in a "abusive" manner, i don't rush my shifts to abrupt power train. In my 996t, i did over 40 track days w/ minimal wear. Those whom have ridden with me can vouch i'm smooth and to me going to a DE event is my Sunday cruise down PCH. If I want to extract a PB, then yes i'll get on it and abusive the car like a race car should be abuse, however i rarely do that. Maybe 2 laps a DE event.
05-06-2017, 03:39 PM
#45
Banned
I just want to point out that increased grip has very little bearing on longevity of parts. Who here puts sticky's on a full OEM (everything) 911? Thought so.... The reason for the increase parts wear is due to the tremendous decrease in vehicle compliance (solid this, heim that, shave weight this, increase spring rates 4x that, 3.8/4.0 this.......).
Some of the advice given is plain wrong for the OP and honestly far off track. If you still think tires break vehicles, I have some property for cheap that I'll sell you in Dusselheim, Germany.
Some of the advice given is plain wrong for the OP and honestly far off track. If you still think tires break vehicles, I have some property for cheap that I'll sell you in Dusselheim, Germany.