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If anyone cares, I don't track the C7Z that often as I've another, purpose built tube frame race car here in Oklahoma that I use to track/race locally. The other car is an ASA Stock car set up for road course work. It weighs 2,300 pounds and is powered by a 420 HP LS1 Corvette engine. I've run it 3 years without touching the engine. Although it's truly not a finesse car it's a damn blast to drive. Separates the men from the boys, and it's something different....
Mr. Rick - Thank you very much for your feedback! We hold your feedback in very high regard here at TPC Racing.
The Tractive DDA coilovers on this car is unique. This car started life as a 997.2 Turbo and has been fitted with 997.2 Cup front and rear uprights. The front Cup uprights accept front struts that are dimensionally same as GT3/RS. While the rear Cup uprights accept completely different rear shocks(shorter length and different lower attachment than GT3/RS). Because of the shorter rear shock length requirement, remote canisters are necessary to house a divider piston in order for the shorter shock to perform as intended. This set of Tractive DDA coilovers were made prior to the RT and RTX marketing designation. When these were made in 2015 there was only the Tractive DDA(RT and RTX submodels were introduced in 2016). In 2015 the shorter shocks automatically came with canister because they are necessary. The canisters are for housing divider piston, higher volume of nitrogen and oil, they do not have mechanical Hi-speed Lo-speed adjusters. Today, we would classify this shock(with remote canister) as RTX. In this car the rear canisters are mounted in the rear subframe area away from radiating exhaust heat like any other remote canisters are prefer to be mounted. This car doesn't have canisters on the front. Sorry for any confusion. It is not my intention to confuse any one, especially our highly regarded race car driver with such mundane configuration details. ;-)
LOL. Tom, thanks for bailing me out. As Tom points out I don't get mired in the mundane details on the 911T race car. I personally think TPC Racing is one of the best race shops in the country. I'm sort of well versed on suspension, however, Mike Levitas knows so much more than I on the science of suspension I don't even speak the same language.
As such, last winter I wanted the car to go faster through the corners and tasked Mike/TPC with developing a plan. Tom details the plan that was developed, approved and implemented.
If what TPC does works I praise them. If it doesn't I bitch at them. They got a lot of praise from me based upon the suspension changes they made.
As I stated in a prior post they transformed the car. Before the DSC and TracTive shocks I couldn't run with 997.2 Cup cars through the corners. That is no longer the case. The car is as fast or faster through the corners as a 997.2 Cup car and my big power differential eats them up off the corner and down straights.
So do the current rtx-plus have remote canisters front and rear like traditional remote canister setups?
Man, we're just getting started. The custom options for Tractive damper will be very impressive. Here're some examples.
RTX canister w/ straight fitting.
RTX canister w/ 90-degree swivel banjo.
RTX "Plus" with bridged canister(the Plus is adding mechanical Hi-speed and Lo-speed mechanical compression dials on top of the electronic adjustments, and we offer bridged canister on models that allow such fitment)
RTX Plus with remote canister and dry-break fitting.
RTX Plus with dry-break and double-swivel banjo
Regardless of the level of configuration for optimizing fitment and/or for aesthetics the function of the Tractive DDA valve and DSC Sport controller remain uncompromised. I really want to either make a video or spend a full day writing in detail description what DSC does to compression and rebound that's differently than conventional 2-way or 3-way or 4-way dampers. I could be wrong but we are up to x amount of pages on this thread but somehow I feel only a faction of the readers know what DSC actually does for damping management. Perhaps some readers don't care to know how DSC does what it does and just want to enjoy the results.
Originally Posted by bmwtye
Also is there any plans to introduce R-ACE into the gt3 product line (I know he tractive BMW line has it)
Not familiar with this acronym. What is R-ACE?
Off the topic for a moment, Tractive has positioned to offer non-electronic ultra-high quantity motorsport dampers to the US market.
Thanks for the detailed info tom . Will the new tractive lift system also work with these rtx-plus setups?
You're welcome. Yes, the front air lift system will be an option for RT, RTX, and RTX Plus. We made the first few of the air lift mechanisms using our shop's in-house CNC machining equipment. Tractive likes the idea very much and insist that they will make the mechanism from now on since the mechanisms are to be attached to the bottom of their dampers so we gladly gave them the drawings.
Originally Posted by bmwtye
Here is the r-ace
Ah. I see. I know this as the Tractive ACE controller. ACE uses only one of the six tuning tables that DSC has. While the ACE is one step forward from conventional mechanical adjusters, DSC is another giant step forward in the suspension evolutionary scale. Tractive develops and manufactures supremely good electronic dampers using their DDA bi-directional spool valve technology, and bringing top-tier pro racing features and construction at club-level price. While DSC develops and manufactures control module with CAN-bus interface, WiFi tuning(coming soon), data logging, and all the tuning features desired by race engineers and enthusiasts alike. The ACE controller was developed by Tractive few years prior to the alliance with DSC. They still offer ACE for vehicles which DSC doesn't have compatibility for.
The DSC and Tractive alliance is a great one. Together we combine the ultimate electronic dampers with the ultimate controller with mutual respect and full data sharing to produce the best package for the end user.
Emmm...I'd normally say my pleasure but I feel a little weird about that now.
Hard to believe we have all of those options in stock now. Sadly, our marketing is definitely less ahead than our engineering and production.
Hi Tom,
I agree I think most customers don't have a very good idea of what DSC is and what is possible with it. We're more than excited to be dealers in the Pacific Northwest and can't wait for the Tractive DDA w/front lift and DSC for our 42R GT3RS in addition to the DSC on our 991 GT3 and GT4.
We're planning a tech session early in the new year with the local PCA and also ongoing track support for one of our local track organizations. Anyone local looking to learn more please come by. Will make a significant impact on your 997 GT3/RS. The ability for the dampening to reacting to what is happening as you're driving the car is phenomenal!
I agree I think most customers don't have a very good idea of what DSC is and what is possible with it. We're more than excited to be dealers in the Pacific Northwest and can't wait for the Tractive DDA w/front lift and DSC for our 42R GT3RS in addition to the DSC on our 991 GT3 and GT4.
We're planning a tech session early in the new year with the local PCA and also ongoing track support for one of our local track organizations. Anyone local looking to learn more please come by. Will make a significant impact on your 997 GT3/RS. The ability for the dampening to reacting to what is happening as you're driving the car is phenomenal!
Hi Jamie,
Our team is thrilled to have Dundon Motorsports as a DSC Sport dealer as well. A tech session in 2017 is a fantastic idea! Let us know if DSC Sport can help in any way. The Tractive DDA coilovers for 4.2L beast will be ready to go as soon as we get the Air Lift mechanisms front Tractive.
I'm running the OEM magnetic shocks on the C7Z. For my usage the OEM shocks work fine with just the DSC Sport controller. The C7Z is a weekend twisty/country/canyon car which I only track a couple times a year just for the hell of it. I'm satisfied with the street performance of the OEM shocks on my 2015 C7Z and new 2017 C7Z. If I were seriously tracking I'd go with the Tractive shocks in a heartbeat.
FYI, Mike Levitas/TPC owns a 2016 C7Z which he ran the OEM magnetic shocks on while developing the C7 DSC controller. He said there was a big improvement with just the controller. However, he has since installed TracTive shocks and said his car is now in another league. He's seen a 1 second improvement at Summit Point with the TracTive shocks compared to OEM and he says it rides nicer.
If anyone cares, I don't track the C7Z that often as I've another, purpose built tube frame race car here in Oklahoma that I use to track/race locally. The other car is an ASA Stock car set up for road course work. It weighs 2,300 pounds and is powered by a 420 HP LS1 Corvette engine. I've run it 3 years without touching the engine. Although it's truly not a finesse car it's a damn blast to drive. Separates the men from the boys, and it's something different....
Rick
Thanks for the input. If anything, this has made my decision easier. Also, that is a really cool method of blow-drying mullets.
Mr. Rick - Thank you very much for your feedback! We hold your feedback in very high regard here at TPC Racing.
The Tractive DDA coilovers on this car is unique. This car started life as a 997.2 Turbo and has been fitted with 997.2 Cup front and rear uprights. The front Cup uprights accept front struts that are dimensionally same as GT3/RS. While the rear Cup uprights accept completely different rear shocks(shorter length and different lower attachment than GT3/RS). Because of the shorter rear shock length requirement, remote canisters are necessary to house a divider piston in order for the shorter shock to perform as intended. This set of Tractive DDA coilovers were made prior to the RT and RTX marketing designation. When these were made in 2015 there was only the Tractive DDA(RT and RTX submodels were introduced in 2016). In 2015 the shorter shocks automatically came with canister because they are necessary. The canisters are for housing divider piston, higher volume of nitrogen and oil, they do not have mechanical Hi-speed Lo-speed adjusters. Today, we would classify this shock(with remote canister) as RTX. In this car the rear canisters are mounted in the rear subframe area away from radiating exhaust heat like any other remote canisters are prefer to be mounted. This car doesn't have canisters on the front. Sorry for any confusion. It is not my intention to confuse any one, especially our highly regarded race car driver with such mundane configuration details. ;-)
First I echo Mr Rick's comments on TPC. Absolutely love this shop, customer service, its participation in the community, its innovations.
Since Mr Rick's setup started life as a 7.2 Turbo I'm even more interested since I also have the .2 TS.
I already have the front wide track kit, sways, DSC.
For the uprights, does changing the geometry mean it's much better for taking corners? Does it take away from streetability at all? It seems like it shouldn't. If it does, is it drastic?
I'm curious what the next "big leap" forward is (not small marginal leap) for my car without significant stripping of weight (I can do GT2 seats, but not strip the whole interior) and without slicks.
After running the DSC Sport for 3 track days I have a comment relating to revision control when developing mapping.
The issue I have is knowing what parameter values/version of mapping is actually loaded on the box. It is easy to download the .pdts files from the box but it is a exceptionally laborious task using the DSC program to look through all the tabs and their parameter values and compare with any other version. There are over 750 values in the GForce and Shock Calibration tables alone most of which require clicking on on a data field to read the value!
It would be very useful if DSC were able to provide a tool to read the installed parameter values and output these in a csv format file so that change control becomes much easier.
First I echo Mr Rick's comments on TPC. Absolutely love this shop, customer service, its participation in the community, its innovations.
Since Mr Rick's setup started life as a 7.2 Turbo I'm even more interested since I also have the .2 TS.
I already have the front wide track kit, sways, DSC.
For the uprights, does changing the geometry mean it's much better for taking corners? Does it take away from streetability at all? It seems like it shouldn't. If it does, is it drastic?
I'm curious what the next "big leap" forward is (not small marginal leap) for my car without significant stripping of weight (I can do GT2 seats, but not strip the whole interior) and without slicks.
Thank you for your kind words and your support.
The Cup uprights target suspension geometry improvement at much lower ride height than OEM spec. And for running very tall tires which often requires lowering the chassis to the axle centerline. The geometry improvement is not targeting specific tire compound. This car has Pirelli DH slicks that are 680/705mm tall. The OEM size tire are 647/668mm tall. So these Pirelli DH's alone raised the car ride height by around 30mm then we naturally lowered the car by half of the 30mm and then some more.
If you are running tire that are closer to OEM tire height then you won't benefit from much(if any) from Cup uprights. I think the next big leap for your car would be dampers, springs, rear monoball control arms and solid rear subframe bushings and some weight reduction such as lighter forged alum wheels, two-piece rotors, CF hood, maybe sunroof delete.
After running the DSC Sport for 3 track days I have a comment relating to revision control when developing mapping.
The issue I have is knowing what parameter values/version of mapping is actually loaded on the box. It is easy to download the .pdts files from the box but it is a exceptionally laborious task using the DSC program to look through all the tabs and their parameter values and compare with any other version. There are over 750 values in the GForce and Shock Calibration tables alone most of which require clicking on on a data field to read the value!
It would be very useful if DSC were able to provide a tool to read the installed parameter values and output these in a csv format file so that change control becomes much easier.
I've added this to my notes for possible features to add to the next update! Always appreciate the feedback.
12-14-2016, 07:05 PM
