Leaning toward .2 GT2 vs. .2 GT3...anyone know this car
01-11-2015, 01:12 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Leaning toward .2 GT2 vs. .2 GT3...anyone know this car
Im wanting to get back into the porsche scene, my last car which i hated was a 2010 panamera turbo(another thread but not worth my time), i still have my 996 tt (which isnt worth much so im keeping) but i've been hearing too many good things about the gt3.
This past summer i visited my local showroom with 5 gt3rs including a 4.0 and felt at the time they were more $$ than they were worth. Since, researching and finally driving one I am convinced and concede that it is an exhilirating machine.
My concern is I feel I'm getting in on the gt3 market a bit late and possibly a better purchase would be a gt2. I understand that they are different beasts but i have always loved the turbos and it would look good next to my 76 turbo. My questions are:
1. What was the bottom on the gt3 market. I seems like now cars are listed 10-20%under MSRP minus the crumpled one in Minneapolis.
2. The gt3rs market has exploded and for that kind of $$ i would get something ferrarish. What $/when was the bottom on the gt3rs.
3. 2008 gt2 msrp was north of $200000 and now Im seeing a limited number cars approaching the 60% depreciation. It appears that production numbers were low. It would seem to me a nonpro at purchasing that this maybe the time to get into a gt2. Im not in it for the investment rather a decent buy for a car that will see at most 1-2 track events per year with spirited weekend rides. My dd is a tdi audi.
4. Is the gt3 a better driving experience to pay a premium over a gt2?
5.Does anyone know this gt2 and this gt3.
http://inventory.chicagomotorcars.co...inois/1631769/
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...72838443&Log=0
This past summer i visited my local showroom with 5 gt3rs including a 4.0 and felt at the time they were more $$ than they were worth. Since, researching and finally driving one I am convinced and concede that it is an exhilirating machine.
My concern is I feel I'm getting in on the gt3 market a bit late and possibly a better purchase would be a gt2. I understand that they are different beasts but i have always loved the turbos and it would look good next to my 76 turbo. My questions are:
1. What was the bottom on the gt3 market. I seems like now cars are listed 10-20%under MSRP minus the crumpled one in Minneapolis.
2. The gt3rs market has exploded and for that kind of $$ i would get something ferrarish. What $/when was the bottom on the gt3rs.
3. 2008 gt2 msrp was north of $200000 and now Im seeing a limited number cars approaching the 60% depreciation. It appears that production numbers were low. It would seem to me a nonpro at purchasing that this maybe the time to get into a gt2. Im not in it for the investment rather a decent buy for a car that will see at most 1-2 track events per year with spirited weekend rides. My dd is a tdi audi.
4. Is the gt3 a better driving experience to pay a premium over a gt2?
5.Does anyone know this gt2 and this gt3.
http://inventory.chicagomotorcars.co...inois/1631769/
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...72838443&Log=0
Last edited by osu s2k; 01-11-2015 at 01:18 AM. Reason: forgot link
01-11-2015, 01:16 AM
#2
GT3 player par excellence
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i believe a RLster communicated with then and passed on it.
01-11-2015, 06:51 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
I contacted the dealer. Agreed on $126,000 for price. I told salesperson Geno I was going to stop by dealership to see the car (I live in Vancouver, Canada). Offered to put $5,000 deposit, pay for PPI, and they just need to get me an acceptable DME without range 5s.
Spend some time negotiating all this and sent an email listing it all out, salesperson gives me a one-liner: "The only way to get the dme printout is to have a ppi performed."
Felt slighted by that and the dealer has some serious haters (just Google them). I felt it was rude. Enought that I didn't bother responding.
Found a car with less miles, more options that I like, and mooty as my #1 quarterback to get everything done. VERY happy with the transaction.
Btw, I am at Sebring driving my 7.2 GT3 now. I love GT3's. Started 6.2, 7.1 RS, x2 7.2 RS and kept 7.2 GT3. Thought about getting a 7.2 RS back (offered on both my past cars). However, wanted a new experience. Bought GT2 from SF Motor Cars.
Reading your post, I had same thought process. richk and Cherryblock likely as well. They have/had 997 GT3 experience and bought 997 GT2 recently.
Bottom of 7.2 GT3 market was when I bought. My car was 5k miles-ish and seller had no real bites for $99K. That was Q1 2011. RS was $110-115 with same miles. That was the bottom for a few months.
I don't believe in market timing, but others (surely smarter than me) have also voted with their wallets now. I see a black 997 GT2 at Sebring in my run group and smile. Looks awesome!
My $0.02, come over to the dark side and join club GT2. I bought for daily driver and the odd track event as priorities. Ask mooty or ChrisF or Trakcar about driving experiences with 997 GT2, from perspectives as seasoned 997 GT3 owners. They can tell you how it feels versus GT3. Someone has production #s on 997 GT2 and GT3. From memory, 997.2 GT3 production was about 3x GT2 production. Hope someone chimea in wih real #s. If you ever wanted in on club GT3 after, easier to find.
Spend some time negotiating all this and sent an email listing it all out, salesperson gives me a one-liner: "The only way to get the dme printout is to have a ppi performed."
Felt slighted by that and the dealer has some serious haters (just Google them). I felt it was rude. Enought that I didn't bother responding.
Found a car with less miles, more options that I like, and mooty as my #1 quarterback to get everything done. VERY happy with the transaction.
Btw, I am at Sebring driving my 7.2 GT3 now. I love GT3's. Started 6.2, 7.1 RS, x2 7.2 RS and kept 7.2 GT3. Thought about getting a 7.2 RS back (offered on both my past cars). However, wanted a new experience. Bought GT2 from SF Motor Cars.
Reading your post, I had same thought process. richk and Cherryblock likely as well. They have/had 997 GT3 experience and bought 997 GT2 recently.
Bottom of 7.2 GT3 market was when I bought. My car was 5k miles-ish and seller had no real bites for $99K. That was Q1 2011. RS was $110-115 with same miles. That was the bottom for a few months.
I don't believe in market timing, but others (surely smarter than me) have also voted with their wallets now. I see a black 997 GT2 at Sebring in my run group and smile. Looks awesome!
My $0.02, come over to the dark side and join club GT2. I bought for daily driver and the odd track event as priorities. Ask mooty or ChrisF or Trakcar about driving experiences with 997 GT2, from perspectives as seasoned 997 GT3 owners. They can tell you how it feels versus GT3. Someone has production #s on 997 GT2 and GT3. From memory, 997.2 GT3 production was about 3x GT2 production. Hope someone chimea in wih real #s. If you ever wanted in on club GT3 after, easier to find.
01-11-2015, 08:55 AM
#5
Seems like right now, the argument for the GT3 is that it has the high reving Mezger engine. Looks like you don't have this type of car in your stable currently. Unfortunately, it appears that you may have missed the bottom - but only time will tell.
All indications are that the auto industry will be moving towards turbos for higher percentage of their fleets. Porsche AG has already started with the Cayenne move from a NA 8 to a turbo 6. Some suggest we will start to see turbos replacing other NA cars within Porsche . That being said, you can't ignore the uniqueness of the GT2 - very rare. It has the Mezger engine - so very stout. Looks like a great value right now too.
All indications are that the auto industry will be moving towards turbos for higher percentage of their fleets. Porsche AG has already started with the Cayenne move from a NA 8 to a turbo 6. Some suggest we will start to see turbos replacing other NA cars within Porsche . That being said, you can't ignore the uniqueness of the GT2 - very rare. It has the Mezger engine - so very stout. Looks like a great value right now too.
01-11-2015, 10:21 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It sound like the gt3 bottom was seeing 90-95K retail? it has creeped up to the 110-120K mark, it seems like a lot of the cars are more than one owner vehicles, some of the ones on the market are people that may expect to make a few bucks flipping having owned the car for a year or so.
At this point if i find a gt3 and gt2, equal miles and condition i will go for the gt2.
I did investigate manheim(this isnt like looking for an honda accord where hundreds of examples are going through) and very few are going through as dealers are probably able to move them without having to wholesale them. Interestingly there were only 2010s wholesaled and no 2011s listed.
Date/mileage/$/all average condition
01/25/13 10640 96000
02/21/13 19483 92500
05/16/13 20088 90000
06/13/13 12221 92250
12/12/13 10884 132000
01/29/14 5454 109950
05/19/14 14656 98500
11/07/14 17800 98000
problem with these numbers are no idea of history, abuse, upkeep, maybe worth getting a good example with a known history.
At this point if i find a gt3 and gt2, equal miles and condition i will go for the gt2.
I did investigate manheim(this isnt like looking for an honda accord where hundreds of examples are going through) and very few are going through as dealers are probably able to move them without having to wholesale them. Interestingly there were only 2010s wholesaled and no 2011s listed.
Date/mileage/$/all average condition
01/25/13 10640 96000
02/21/13 19483 92500
05/16/13 20088 90000
06/13/13 12221 92250
12/12/13 10884 132000
01/29/14 5454 109950
05/19/14 14656 98500
11/07/14 17800 98000
problem with these numbers are no idea of history, abuse, upkeep, maybe worth getting a good example with a known history.
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01-11-2015, 10:30 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
these very limited wholesale numbers showing a spike about a year ago, but still holding strong. I would rather pay north of 115 knowing the history versus 100 at auction and bringing home an unknown. One of the surrounding dealers has a heavy option low mileage pristine example at 149K(I was initially basing pricing on this), based on my research, they will sit on this a bit...
01-11-2015, 10:31 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
01-11-2015, 11:28 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
I contacted the dealer. Agreed on $126,000 for price. I told salesperson Geno I was going to stop by dealership to see the car (I live in Vancouver, Canada). Offered to put $5,000 deposit, pay for PPI, and they just need to get me an acceptable DME without range 5s.
Spend some time negotiating all this and sent an email listing it all out, salesperson gives me a one-liner: "The only way to get the dme printout is to have a ppi performed."
Felt slighted by that and the dealer has some serious haters (just Google them). I felt it was rude. Enought that I didn't bother responding.
Found a car with less miles, more options that I like, and mooty as my #1 quarterback to get everything done. VERY happy with the transaction.
Btw, I am at Sebring driving my 7.2 GT3 now. I love GT3's. Started 6.2, 7.1 RS, x2 7.2 RS and kept 7.2 GT3. Thought about getting a 7.2 RS back (offered on both my past cars). However, wanted a new experience. Bought GT2 from SF Motor Cars.
Reading your post, I had same thought process. richk and Cherryblock likely as well. They have/had 997 GT3 experience and bought 997 GT2 recently.
Bottom of 7.2 GT3 market was when I bought. My car was 5k miles-ish and seller had no real bites for $99K. That was Q1 2011. RS was $110-115 with same miles. That was the bottom for a few months.
I don't believe in market timing, but others (surely smarter than me) have also voted with their wallets now. I see a black 997 GT2 at Sebring in my run group and smile. Looks awesome!
My $0.02, come over to the dark side and join club GT2. I bought for daily driver and the odd track event as priorities. Ask mooty or ChrisF or Trakcar about driving experiences with 997 GT2, from perspectives as seasoned 997 GT3 owners. They can tell you how it feels versus GT3. Someone has production #s on 997 GT2 and GT3. From memory, 997.2 GT3 production was about 3x GT2 production. Hope someone chimea in wih real #s. If you ever wanted in on club GT3 after, easier to find.
Spend some time negotiating all this and sent an email listing it all out, salesperson gives me a one-liner: "The only way to get the dme printout is to have a ppi performed."
Felt slighted by that and the dealer has some serious haters (just Google them). I felt it was rude. Enought that I didn't bother responding.
Found a car with less miles, more options that I like, and mooty as my #1 quarterback to get everything done. VERY happy with the transaction.
Btw, I am at Sebring driving my 7.2 GT3 now. I love GT3's. Started 6.2, 7.1 RS, x2 7.2 RS and kept 7.2 GT3. Thought about getting a 7.2 RS back (offered on both my past cars). However, wanted a new experience. Bought GT2 from SF Motor Cars.
Reading your post, I had same thought process. richk and Cherryblock likely as well. They have/had 997 GT3 experience and bought 997 GT2 recently.
Bottom of 7.2 GT3 market was when I bought. My car was 5k miles-ish and seller had no real bites for $99K. That was Q1 2011. RS was $110-115 with same miles. That was the bottom for a few months.
I don't believe in market timing, but others (surely smarter than me) have also voted with their wallets now. I see a black 997 GT2 at Sebring in my run group and smile. Looks awesome!
My $0.02, come over to the dark side and join club GT2. I bought for daily driver and the odd track event as priorities. Ask mooty or ChrisF or Trakcar about driving experiences with 997 GT2, from perspectives as seasoned 997 GT3 owners. They can tell you how it feels versus GT3. Someone has production #s on 997 GT2 and GT3. From memory, 997.2 GT3 production was about 3x GT2 production. Hope someone chimea in wih real #s. If you ever wanted in on club GT3 after, easier to find.
I had looked in to that car. I ended up buying a 6k black GT2 for 140 with oakley cats and exhaust and 2 sets of wheels
01-11-2015, 11:47 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
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I bought my GT2 at around the $.60 on the dollar about 4 years ago, in a rather hard to find color, with a lot of factory options and an acceptable DME readout. Those values have been holding quite steady for a while. MSRP on a GT2 started at about $185k I think.
No such thing as a 997.2 GT2. It's either a 997.1 GT2, or a 997.2 GT2RS. There are about 15 strange duck 2009 997 GT2 units in the US most if not all PTS, with the new PCM/AC controls and the normal 3.6l engine (aka non-3.8l Turbo engine). Those 2009 units go for a premium, deservedly or not (IMO, yes, they deserve a premium because of PTS and newer model year).
Not a fan of Chicago Motor Cars. Having lived in the area I just didn't trust them and never bothered to investigate any of their offerings.
If the choice is between a GT3 and a GT2, and you are wondering about the experience, you have to be honest with yourself. Do you like engine noise, the sensation of going fast, driving something relatively forgiving, and ignorant people who think 3 is better than 2? Or do you like actually going fast, don't care about "noise," driving something that requires a bit of driving ability to eek out actual performance, and ignore people who don't understand the nomenclature?
No such thing as a 997.2 GT2. It's either a 997.1 GT2, or a 997.2 GT2RS. There are about 15 strange duck 2009 997 GT2 units in the US most if not all PTS, with the new PCM/AC controls and the normal 3.6l engine (aka non-3.8l Turbo engine). Those 2009 units go for a premium, deservedly or not (IMO, yes, they deserve a premium because of PTS and newer model year).
Not a fan of Chicago Motor Cars. Having lived in the area I just didn't trust them and never bothered to investigate any of their offerings.
If the choice is between a GT3 and a GT2, and you are wondering about the experience, you have to be honest with yourself. Do you like engine noise, the sensation of going fast, driving something relatively forgiving, and ignorant people who think 3 is better than 2? Or do you like actually going fast, don't care about "noise," driving something that requires a bit of driving ability to eek out actual performance, and ignore people who don't understand the nomenclature?
Last edited by Nick Wong; 01-11-2015 at 12:07 PM.
01-11-2015, 12:40 PM
#12
Racer
...
If the choice is between a GT3 and a GT2, and you are wondering about the experience, you have to be honest with yourself. Do you like engine noise, the sensation of going fast, driving something relatively forgiving, and ignorant people who think 3 is better than 2? Or do you like actually going fast, don't care about "noise," driving something that requires a bit of driving ability to eek out actual performance, and ignore people who don't understand the nomenclature?
If the choice is between a GT3 and a GT2, and you are wondering about the experience, you have to be honest with yourself. Do you like engine noise, the sensation of going fast, driving something relatively forgiving, and ignorant people who think 3 is better than 2? Or do you like actually going fast, don't care about "noise," driving something that requires a bit of driving ability to eek out actual performance, and ignore people who don't understand the nomenclature?
Love this. Also, are you just selling 2's short on the engine noise part so you can keep prices down hahahah
My 0.02 if engine noise matters, get a simple bolt on exhaust. Really opens it up and anyone still complaining about lack of engine noise just has a "complex" about it.
Thank you for flying the GT2 flag high
01-11-2015, 12:41 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
I'm lucky enough to have both, both are tremendous and you cannot go wrong with either choice. Having said that, there is no better value in my mind than the 08-09 GT2's. To buy what was Porsche's flagship sports car, with a so few built puts you in exclusive territory. The performance comparison to my RS is pretty significant, I love driving them both and definitely find the sound of the NA RS intoxicating, but the sheer performance of the 2 is awesome. If I'm buying one today, in the 120-140 range its the GT2 for sure over the 997.2 GT3.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
01-11-2015, 12:52 PM
#14
Three Wheelin'
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Love this. Also, are you just selling 2's short on the engine noise part so you can keep prices down hahahah
My 0.02 if engine noise matters, get a simple bolt on exhaust. Really opens it up and anyone still complaining about lack of engine noise just has a "complex" about it.
Thank you for flying the GT2 flag high
Honestly, the issue of engine noise comes up so much as a valid reason to choose the NA car that it can't be ignored.
I have no problem writing propaganda to suppress GT2 values. Might as well get the cars into the the hands of people who enjoy them.
I have the sinking feeling, however, that 997 GT2 prices may begin to march upward. The last couple of months have seen a renewed interest on this forum for the 997 GT2, with limited production and thus rarity being the driving factor, so I assume it's going be good for those of us who already have the car (and have been driving the crap out of them for the last few years).
For what it's worth, I have yet to see another Meteor Grey 997 GT2 in the wild. I have only seen one other 997 GT2 on the streets in 5 years of looking (Chicago area, and now in the Central Florida area). I have never seen another 997 GT2 at the track whenever I happen to go.
These things are rare. Probably more rare than we think. I see more 458 Speciales at C&C. Heck I have seen more McLaren 650s.
01-11-2015, 01:14 PM
#15
http://www.chicagomotorcarssuck.com
Here is a link consolidating a lot of the mess about Chicago motor cars.
Here is a link consolidating a lot of the mess about Chicago motor cars.