"Interesting" first track experience with the GT3 (with pics!)
08-21-2014, 08:39 PM
#16
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My 2 cents: no matter how "capable" an instructor thinks you or your car might be, you are the one with complete control of the car. Don't let someone convince you to drive over your head or past your limits, especially at the level you are currently driving. I always start off by telling my students two things:
1. Don't try to impress me, because you can't.
2. Don't try to scare me because I already am.
Works most of the time except for a newbie in a brand spanking new 7.1-3 who put us into the T1 wall at the Glen. Guy thought he was Bergmeister braking at the 1 mark. Unfortunately the wall won that day....... Just ran out of talent.
Newbies in high HP cars tend to make me nervous and I now refuse to instruct in a car where I cannot wear my Hans. Have fun out there and as others have mentioned, slap some new tires on the car and do a basic level set of your beautiful new 3.
1. Don't try to impress me, because you can't.
2. Don't try to scare me because I already am.
Works most of the time except for a newbie in a brand spanking new 7.1-3 who put us into the T1 wall at the Glen. Guy thought he was Bergmeister braking at the 1 mark. Unfortunately the wall won that day....... Just ran out of talent.
Newbies in high HP cars tend to make me nervous and I now refuse to instruct in a car where I cannot wear my Hans. Have fun out there and as others have mentioned, slap some new tires on the car and do a basic level set of your beautiful new 3.
08-21-2014, 09:44 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Awesome advice guys. I was definitely feeling pushed a little bit beyond my comfort level. Not blaming the instructor...my responsibility for sure. Live and learn. This experience will probably save me from a worse mistake later.
I really like the idea of going back to street tires for my next 8-10 DE's and using them as my dedicated track tire. No reason I need to be on R-comps at this stage. Will check the MPSS. What other tires do you guys recommend for a cheap, 19-inch street tire that will pass muster for DE's. I have a dedicated set of track wheels but they are 19 as I want to keep the same size wheels for street and track. Will check the bar tonight. Since I had the undertrays off I installed the torque solutions tranny mount I've had on my shelf for over a year! Should be interesting to see how much NVH it introduces, or if it just gets lost in the noise and drone from the side delete pipes. Thanks again all!
I really like the idea of going back to street tires for my next 8-10 DE's and using them as my dedicated track tire. No reason I need to be on R-comps at this stage. Will check the MPSS. What other tires do you guys recommend for a cheap, 19-inch street tire that will pass muster for DE's. I have a dedicated set of track wheels but they are 19 as I want to keep the same size wheels for street and track. Will check the bar tonight. Since I had the undertrays off I installed the torque solutions tranny mount I've had on my shelf for over a year! Should be interesting to see how much NVH it introduces, or if it just gets lost in the noise and drone from the side delete pipes. Thanks again all!
08-21-2014, 10:29 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
The MPSS tires will serve you well as a combo tire. Check your setup. Slow down and go faster.
Have fun.
Have fun.
08-21-2014, 10:42 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Awesome advice guys. I was definitely feeling pushed a little bit beyond my comfort level. Not blaming the instructor...my responsibility for sure. Live and learn. This experience will probably save me from a worse mistake later.
I really like the idea of going back to street tires for my next 8-10 DE's and using them as my dedicated track tire. No reason I need to be on R-comps at this stage. Will check the MPSS. What other tires do you guys recommend for a cheap, 19-inch street tire that will pass muster for DE's. I have a dedicated set of track wheels but they are 19 as I want to keep the same size wheels for street and track. Will check the bar tonight. Since I had the undertrays off I installed the torque solutions tranny mount I've had on my shelf for over a year! Should be interesting to see how much NVH it introduces, or if it just gets lost in the noise and drone from the side delete pipes. Thanks again all!
I really like the idea of going back to street tires for my next 8-10 DE's and using them as my dedicated track tire. No reason I need to be on R-comps at this stage. Will check the MPSS. What other tires do you guys recommend for a cheap, 19-inch street tire that will pass muster for DE's. I have a dedicated set of track wheels but they are 19 as I want to keep the same size wheels for street and track. Will check the bar tonight. Since I had the undertrays off I installed the torque solutions tranny mount I've had on my shelf for over a year! Should be interesting to see how much NVH it introduces, or if it just gets lost in the noise and drone from the side delete pipes. Thanks again all!
08-21-2014, 10:44 PM
#21
Check out PCA San Diego at Chuckwalla in Oct....
08-22-2014, 01:54 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
This is a .1. Tc only no pasm. Will not save a spin. Only saves power on tire spin.
Been there done that. 997north advise is spot on. Pushing you will spin. It's part of learning and learning to anticipate and control. I still have a long way to go.
Outside of tires get car setup and balanced so you have a starting point.
Been there done that. 997north advise is spot on. Pushing you will spin. It's part of learning and learning to anticipate and control. I still have a long way to go.
Outside of tires get car setup and balanced so you have a starting point.
08-22-2014, 06:50 AM
#25
spins are all part of the learn curve, increase grip and you will be going faster when it happens, with that said poor basic alignment and worn/cooked tyres will mean car will be unpredictable so hard to gage if you are improving with the spins and what caused them!
08-22-2014, 11:32 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
- get a new set of MPSS (street tires) that you know are new and are therefore predictable - it is impossible to setup a car with worn tires you will just be chasing your tail
- if the car rotated on a high speed 3rd gear turn you either lifted as you were going to fast for your comfort or the rear tires are shot or the rear bar is the gt2 bar
- if the car rotated on tight 2nd gear corners then this is normal and welcome to the learning curve of becoming a better driver - it is worth the effort and you need to set up a gt3 in this manner to be fast - if it was a 2nd gear type turn you do these type corners on / over / past / back again / over again of oversteer - this is 100% normal and you will just develop the hands to do this with experience (just think of driving a go-cart) - you have to expect it 100% of the time - and learn to deal with it - if it surprises you (like it just did) it is way to late to save it - just expect it next time
- if the car rotated on a high speed 3rd gear turn you either lifted as you were going to fast for your comfort or the rear tires are shot or the rear bar is the gt2 bar
- if the car rotated on tight 2nd gear corners then this is normal and welcome to the learning curve of becoming a better driver - it is worth the effort and you need to set up a gt3 in this manner to be fast - if it was a 2nd gear type turn you do these type corners on / over / past / back again / over again of oversteer - this is 100% normal and you will just develop the hands to do this with experience (just think of driving a go-cart) - you have to expect it 100% of the time - and learn to deal with it - if it surprises you (like it just did) it is way to late to save it - just expect it next time
have fun[/QUOTE]
08-22-2014, 03:42 PM
#27
Drifting
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Firebird (now Wild Horse Pass) East track. Alignment and corner balance is next on the agenda (I've only had the car for a couple months, so its possible its way off...will do locking toe links at same time). I was on 1/2 used toyo r888's. Rears are just about at the wear bars now, but compound still seems nice and soft.
Funny thing is that this car did not even have a hint of push. My old gt3 pushed a good bit, and of course the turbo pushed as well. This one turned in great (perhaps a little too great). Power felt great and the 8k plus redline was just awesome.
Funny thing is that this car did not even have a hint of push. My old gt3 pushed a good bit, and of course the turbo pushed as well. This one turned in great (perhaps a little too great). Power felt great and the 8k plus redline was just awesome.
But keep up the good work.
08-22-2014, 04:07 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
To OP; Welcome to the track 
thanks for posting!
Well from what you wrote, a spin or worse was inevitable.
But now you know and will be that much safer because of the spin and it was only a spin, so cheap lessons learned.
Most DE instructors have good radio's or are mandatory to instruct, but if you run with groups where its not mandatory you may just want to buy a Chatterbox just in case.
thanks for posting!Well from what you wrote, a spin or worse was inevitable.
But now you know and will be that much safer because of the spin and it was only a spin, so cheap lessons learned.
Most DE instructors have good radio's or are mandatory to instruct, but if you run with groups where its not mandatory you may just want to buy a Chatterbox just in case.
08-22-2014, 04:10 PM
#29
GT3 player par excellence
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friends dont let friends drive on R888
friends dont let friends drive on R888
08-22-2014, 05:31 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Scott,
From a setup perspective, the front is compressing way too much in the second photo. I am guessing the front bar is either set to full soft or one from full soft. If the rear bar is full stiff or you have a GT2 rear bar then its a tail wagger at grip limit. If you're not going to do any suspension mods simply just stiffening the front bar will reduce body roll and chances of spinning the car. It'll have some push but I'd rather have push than to be loose if I wasn't going to do a track setup. The third photo shows there's very little negative camber in the front, so that tells me when you start picking up the pace the car will go from entry understeer to exit oversteer. When a car is setup right there's a very fine line between spinning and not spinning. On a very loose car TC(Traction Control) doesn't help because TC is not PSM.
Don't beat yourself up. We all spin and go off track. I see this kind of thing all the time, in many cases its not the driver, its the setup on the car. Many people just couldn't identify the source of the issue and blame themselves. I'll put it this way, often times even pro drivers can't save a badly setup car so they are force themselves to drive slower(below the grip limit of the car) finish a race.
In regard to tires, I'd suggest street tires for running in Green or Blue run groups. Michelin Pilot Super Sport, Bridegstone RE11, or Hankook RS3 are all great "learning tires"; Learning for driver and for setup of the car at lower speeds and are much easier to control when the car is out of shape than stickier track tires. These tires go plenty fast for Green and Blue students. IMHO, R-compound tires are not necessary in Green/Blue group, they could mask habits that will be harder to fix later on(driver and car).
From a setup perspective, the front is compressing way too much in the second photo. I am guessing the front bar is either set to full soft or one from full soft. If the rear bar is full stiff or you have a GT2 rear bar then its a tail wagger at grip limit. If you're not going to do any suspension mods simply just stiffening the front bar will reduce body roll and chances of spinning the car. It'll have some push but I'd rather have push than to be loose if I wasn't going to do a track setup. The third photo shows there's very little negative camber in the front, so that tells me when you start picking up the pace the car will go from entry understeer to exit oversteer. When a car is setup right there's a very fine line between spinning and not spinning. On a very loose car TC(Traction Control) doesn't help because TC is not PSM.
Don't beat yourself up. We all spin and go off track. I see this kind of thing all the time, in many cases its not the driver, its the setup on the car. Many people just couldn't identify the source of the issue and blame themselves. I'll put it this way, often times even pro drivers can't save a badly setup car so they are force themselves to drive slower(below the grip limit of the car) finish a race.
In regard to tires, I'd suggest street tires for running in Green or Blue run groups. Michelin Pilot Super Sport, Bridegstone RE11, or Hankook RS3 are all great "learning tires"; Learning for driver and for setup of the car at lower speeds and are much easier to control when the car is out of shape than stickier track tires. These tires go plenty fast for Green and Blue students. IMHO, R-compound tires are not necessary in Green/Blue group, they could mask habits that will be harder to fix later on(driver and car).
Last edited by Tom@TPC Racing; 08-22-2014 at 05:43 PM. Reason: added last paragraph